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General discussionGOG Mafia #69 (he he) - The Uniwizard Tournament: Second Edition(1202 posts)(1202 posts)
(1202 posts)
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This is my favourite topic
Posted September 14, 2020
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gogtrial34987: I'm saying that, in the (apparently wrong) worldview I had where you'd already concluded that trent's explanation didn't make sense, and were thus scum-reading him, your sudden cessation of pursuing that line of questioning didn't make sense to me, and that I was busy trying to figure out what might then be going on.
I wasn't scum-reading him, I was trying to figure out if his read which appeared to be incredibly strong and solid for the likes of D1 is actually warranted or not. Outside of the roulette game I don't think I've seen you as scum and I have no idea how you operate yet Trent appeared to base his read on "reliable" sample data (apparently X amount of Town vs 1 time as non-Town which isn't a fantastic basis for being so sure). In one post of yours I can't look for right now (but I can do it later if you can't remember which one it is) you sort of backed up his "re-explanation" of his reasoning so I left it a bit to the side. I think it was around that time when our exchange with Lift had started to happen or was already going on and that took away my attention from Trent and you almost entirely. So I don't see Trent as scum but his nowhere near Town, either. He's neutral at best and that's probably generous.

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gogtrial34987: It did very much feel like you were questioning me to determined the veracity of trent's argument. Since that appears not to have been the purpose of that line of questioning... what was?
It was. You are the best source of knowledge for your playing history and your playstyle somewhat ensures the data you present is going to be accurate to the extent that suits you. I don't like rereading old games, even less so games that I didn't take part of myself so I was counting on others (mostly you in this case) to share the information I needed. In case of need I can always go back and double check that information myself if I feel it's worth it but so far I've been taking your word for it. I was trying to figure out something on either or both of you that could help get a better read of either or both of you. Not sure if that makes the sense I'd like it to make.
Posted September 14, 2020
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dedoporno: you sort of backed up his "re-explanation" of his reasoning so I left it a bit to the side
...
I was trying to figure out something on either or both of you that could help get a better read of either or both of you. Not sure if that makes the sense I'd like it to make.
It does. And I backed up his reasoning, right until I realized (in the very next post?) that his reasoning in itself made sense, but didn't actually match my play in this game.

Are you someone capable of recognizing "caught scum!trent"? Does that fit with his #281? (I want to believe, which I recognize as a failing of mine.) Anyone else see it?
Posted September 14, 2020
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gogtrial34987: Are you someone capable of recognizing "caught scum!trent"? Does that fit with his #281? (I want to believe, which I recognize as a failing of mine.) Anyone else see it?
I'm probably the last person you want to turn to when it comes to scum!Trent. He has been making a fool out of me pretty consistently for quite a while now. That said, I actually had a meme ready which I failed to post before Trent replied. I've come to expect him to say that but it appears that he isn't going to make a great effort to fight back in this case. I don't know what that means. There was one other thing that slightly stood out to me but then I forgot about it was in another post, replaying to someone maybe about top picks and reads and such. There was a line in the likes of "I don't really know what's going on and what to think bah" which didn't sound like the Trent I know. I can look for it later but it's not anything to write home about.
Posted September 14, 2020
Ok, I've re-read the posts, phew, still feels too much, lots of text to parse. Especially Micro with some walls of text anyway some quick summaries:
1. JoeSapphire - so-so, wouldn't lunch atm
2. catte - usual SPF (it's SPF right?) not much of a read, would lunch to avoid mislynch
3. Lifthrasil - interesting exchange with dedo. And while I agree to lynch all liars, what was the lie again? this also for @phaolo? Would likely lynch if convinced about the reason. Yet atm not very convinced.
4. trentonlf - why would trent blunder with gogtrial? Did he blunder? I wouldn't for sure firmly town-read anyone on D1 except if he came out and claimed Mason/Innocent Child. Willing to lynch, interesting gambit on offering himself for lynch. Are there Mafia roles like the Fool in Werewolf?
5. GymHenson - are you trying to get nmillar lynch? Why? Would likely lynch to avoid no-lynch
6. phaolo - I actually was scum in my first game. I think he's playing better than me if scum, wouldn't lunch anyway on D1
7. nmillar - hard to read as always. I've scumread him in the past and he wasn't. Would lynch if no other ideas.
8. Microfish_1 - walls of text, with little actual essence. Sorry Micro :D. Didn't liked the response on the joe wagon thing, would lynch in needed.
9¾. dedoporno - is he trying to get Lift lynched? Why? I don't seem to be able to discover the mis-steps you and phaolo seem to be attribute to Lift. Scumteam? I have no idea. Would lynch? yes.
10. gogtrial34987 - while the trent thing is weird, voting for trent even worse, feels a lamist move, I can't really accuse him for lack of effort. Wouldn't lynch for now
11. Vitek - big hat, no cattle, lots of talk, no action. hard to read, I lean either way. Would maybe lunch if push comes to shove.
12. blotunga - wouldn't lunch. Not tasty.
Posted September 14, 2020
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phaolo: 9¾. dedoporno - insinuated that Lifthrasil could be scum in a weird way. Metagaming or scummy accusations?
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Vitek: What did you find weird about it?
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blotunga: 3. Lifthrasil - interesting exchange with dedo. And while I agree to lynch all liars, what was the lie again? this also for @phaolo? Would likely lynch if convinced about the reason. Yet atm not very convinced.
[..]
9¾. dedoporno - is he trying to get Lift lynched? Why? I don't seem to be able to discover the mis-steps you and phaolo seem to be attribute to Lift. Scumteam? I have no idea. Would lynch? yes.
Check my previous post, guys.
Posted September 14, 2020
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blotunga: 4. trentonlf - why would trent blunder with gogtrial? Did he blunder? I wouldn't for sure firmly town-read anyone on D1 except if he came out and claimed Mason/Innocent Child. Willing to lynch, interesting gambit on offering himself for lynch. Are there Mafia roles like the Fool in Werewolf?
Thanks for admitting to being mafia.

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blotunga: 7. nmillar - hard to read as always. I've scumread him in the past and he wasn't. Would lynch if no other ideas.
Do you scumread him now?

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gogtrial34987: cambridge dictionary? (couldn't find "polite" in any other source). Try merriam webster.
Yeah, I just looked at the top Google results and this word stuck more than others with me.

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gogtrial34987: It's not the politeness. He used to be more uncertain of himself, acknowledging that as town, he doesn't know what's going on, and thus easily "swaying" when argumentation was presented. His current holding to his own beliefs is absolutely a good town trait (when not leading to tunneling) - but it's not one I've observed in him before.
So it's that he is playing better than before. :-)
I get what you, mean, that he just feels different but it's not something I see so far (I could see scummy in some points but not really different) so for me it is something I will be maybe on the lookout for now in case it appears but not something I would confirm.

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phaolo: Check my previous post, guys.
That makes me even more confused as the original dedo's post quoted in your #214 is not about Lift at all. Lift dragged himself into that argument AFAIK.
Posted September 14, 2020
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Vitek: That makes me even more confused as the original dedo's post quoted in your #214 is not about Lift at all. Lift dragged himself into that argument AFAIK.
Oh WTF you're right.. I guess I got confused by that.
I'll have to read that convo again then -_-'
Posted September 14, 2020
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Vitek: Thanks for admitting to being mafia.
Did I? Where?

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Vitek: Do you scumread him now?
Not more than usually.

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phaolo: Check my previous post, guys.
I think you read too much into Lifts post and dedo is trying to blow it up. For what reason, I can't yet decide.
Posted September 14, 2020
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blotunga: Did I? Where?
By suggesting Jester (that's Mafia equivalent of Fool).
It's my trusted old scumtell that worked like once or twice many years ago and since that I like to bring it up and use it. :-)
Posted September 14, 2020
Mm.. even if I somehow missed that tag, my subsequent reasoning doesn't seem much affected by such mistake. Dedoporno still made a weird post, even if about gogtrial instead of Lift.

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blotunga: I think you read too much into Lifts post and dedo is trying to blow it up. For what reason, I can't yet decide.
Probably, but well I said it was minor.
Also, those 2 were "fighting" already before my comments.
Posted September 14, 2020
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dedoporno: @gogtrial, someone mentioned you've only been scum once before. Is that true (I know you were during the last roulette but I'm mostly interested in normal mafia games)?
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my name is magike catte: To my mind the obvious purpose of the question was to identify which games gogtrial had been scum in.
To my mind that wasn't the obvious purpose. Because that wasn't what dedo asked. But maybe I am misunderstanding him instead of the other way round.


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dedoporno: For someone who didn't think I was going after the statistics you keep bringing it up quite a lot.

And, if it didn't become clear why I asked (apparently not) - Trent based his Town-read of gogtrial based on how gogtrial plays as Town versus how he plays as scum. Someone mentioned that gogtrial was scum only once and if that was actually true it would have been a decent way to take a look at that one time (or better yet, have others who aren't as lazy or have good memory of it help in the process) and confirm Trent's explanation to some extent. If there was some sort of discrepancy (indeed a single time but behavior different to what was explained by Trent or more times with varying behavior) Trent would have had to answer for it. It was all (at first) about Trent and his committed stance re gogtrial.
Apparently I DID misunderstand you.

I kept discussing statsitics because I keep being asked why I asked. The point is: your question SEEMED to be aimed at statistics. I couldn't see a reason why you would ask such a question. So I asked why you asked. To which you replied: "I have a reason but I won't tell!" (paraphrased)
Until now.
So, why didn't you clearly state your reason right away when I asked? Why did you instead get all sensitive and feeling shaded? If it is such a simple reason, why make a secret out of it? And why did you ask for the NUMBER of games that he was scum instead of asking WHICH game(s) he was scum in?

Wanting to do meta-reads is fair enough. The way you asked and went about my question is weird and overly defensive.

So I ask again: why didn't you simply ask what you wanted to ask? And why didn't you just reply to my question instead of trying to construct a case out of it?
Posted September 14, 2020
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Lifthrasil: So I ask again: why didn't you simply ask what you wanted to ask? And why didn't you just reply to my question instead of trying to construct a case out of it?
I didn't answer because a) the whole thing had nothing to do with you and b) I wanted to go at it step by step to make sure I'm getting correct information each time without throwing everything at once, making it obvious what I'm about and giving the scum (if any of Trent/gogtrial is one) the chance to come up with a complete response in one go.

I don't mean to be rude here but regardless of your alignment I honestly believe it was none of your business to intrude the conversation like you did, in the way you did at the time you did. If you didn't know what I was going about like you claim and you weren't trying to throw shade or misrepresent my intention the simplest and most polite thing for a fellow player would have been to let me finish what I started and then, if you were still unsatisfied by the whole thing you would have had all the reasons in the world to call me out on it. But you decided to go in another direction and here we are.
Posted September 14, 2020
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Lifthrasil: So I ask again: why didn't you simply ask what you wanted to ask? And why didn't you just reply to my question instead of trying to construct a case out of it?
Maybe because he's scum? Though tbh whatever case you make on D1 one is usually either flimsy or is punishing for something like inactivity, stupid remark/behavior/clumsiness etc.
Posted September 14, 2020
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Lifthrasil: So I ask again: why didn't you simply ask what you wanted to ask? And why didn't you just reply to my question instead of trying to construct a case out of it?
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dedoporno: I didn't answer because a) the whole thing had nothing to do with you [..] I honestly believe it was none of your business to intrude the conversation like you did
Dude.. it was a question (mandatorily) asked in public, so Lift had all the right to "intrude".
From what I understood, in these games it's important to analyze & discuss every post.
If you were in good faith as you explained, IMO the mistake was in how you expressed your question (which sounded suspicious also to me).
You could have simply told Lift that he was mistaken and that you would have explained your reasoning later ¯\_(O_o)_/¯
Posted September 14, 2020
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phaolo: You could have simply told Lift that he was mistaken and that you would have explained your reasoning later ¯\_(O_o)_/
I'm pretty sure I did.
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This is my favourite topic
Community
General discussionGOG Mafia #69 (he he) - The Uniwizard Tournament: Second Edition(1202 posts)(1202 posts)
(1202 posts)