Hi all, I'm back and trying to catchup the last 21 hours. I shall probably be...absent much of Saturday & Sunday, and probably will be absent all of Thursday next week, too. :(
try to observe things without letting it be colored by pre-conceived notions!
Hmm, yes. Wll then, the sky is a lovely shade of Root Beer today, don't you think? (I have followed your advice and set aside my pre-conceived notion that blue is blue. :P )
I didn't get off his case. I knew he was scum (someone asked me about that, which I'll get to properly in a bit, but as my lover Joe was mafia, I knew the composition of the entire mafia team), and I wanted the town-points for uncovering scum, so I kept poking at every post he made, pointing out every inconsistency in reasoning, etc. My play style involves reasonably long-winded back-and-forths anyway (I miss HSL!), but with scene it was a bit more so; purposefully trying to "set him up" with some leading questions. If anything, I think it's that which trent noticed and retained as the difference in my play style.
Thank you! (I miss him too!)
"arguing ... without any proof to try and kickstart something", and I tend to see this as neutral at best and scummy at worst.
I think that if a player does so while the game is in full swing, and everyone is contributing, it's indeed very likely to be scummy. However, ~36 hours after the start of the game, it felt completely stalled. No activity at all for 10 hours
, and then a complete fluff post. Given those circumstances, I felt - and feel - justified in dragging the game away from RVS in any way necessary. I believe it has been successful. Yes, I'm in the strange position of not yet being universally town-read by the middle of D1, but we also have a lot of useful secondary interactions to look at and draw conclusions from, e.g. trent and blotunga probably aren't a team (modulo WIFOM). Worth it on balance for the game, even if slightly uncomfortable for me.
Oh? I have checked the date stamps, but it seems to me that there were 2 fluff posts after my fluff post. (GH provided mood music.) I didn't notice the time lag as I was in bed for some of that, I think, but if I was in bed, the UK was awake.
Yes, I'm in the strange position of not yet being universally town-read by the middle of D1
This is a nice, subtle bit of LAMISTing. I'm glad no one else noticed it so that I could. (Or maybe it means I need to reread the concept to see what it is :/ ) Is it customary that you are
townread? Have you ever been full scum? Were you townread in the games where you were anti-town?
I'm very interested at this point in how he's going to square his explanation for the difference between town- and scum-me, with his town-read of me based on my actual actions.
Concrete knowledge. I was tragic lovers with Joe, who was nominally on the mafia team (with the team having a power structure to try and make certain Joe wasn't in charge of NKs), so could inform me about team composition (and then ZFR shortcircuited that by just giving me read access to mafia-chat, which was seen as tilting the balance too far in our favour).
As I have not yet read it, this makes two of us.
Thank you for the explanation.
I am voting Joe but think the consensus (no doubt with at least one scum helping the narrative, so i have to be cautious here) is we have enough people questioning gogtrial to actually achieve a non-last minute lunch, and so am willing to switch to him
You've semi-retracted several things after our back-and-forth discussions. Could you sum up what's left at this point which makes you believe me to be a worthy lunch target?
I'm particularly interested in this willingness, given earlier statements like:
I really like his analysis as presented to Phaolo and what a mafia player ought to be doing.
I...don't know. I've only played one game (stanley hotel) with him previously, that I recall
We also played together in #67 - Mamlakat al Shams
, where yes, I was nightkilled early on, but we had quite some interactions on D1, and in #59 - Previously on Mafia...
, where we both played together for the entire game until Pooka and dedo trounced us.
Thank you for correcting the games in which we have played together. I had forgotten.
I am willing to vote you -- especially to avoid NL -- because of
1. General feeling of scumminess from you; this seems to be reflected in multiple people's views to and about you, which means enough support might exist for us to gaining information from any lunch.
2. General seeming unwillingness on the part of others to vote Joe as yet.
3. Giving a good talk to a new player about mechanics
does not a good town-player make. The best scum player can talk all day long about what townsfolk ought
to be doing, while simultaneously hoping that they either forget to do them or hoping the other player has a case of "you were so helpful that I shan't turn this recommended approach of looking at things too closely at yuour
actions, my dear Advisor." IOW, advice to a new player does not equal scum-hunting. it is also not anti-scum hunting, but should not be mistaken for scum-hunting (I have made this mistake before--HSL's coaching was so helpfull that he easily pocketed me--and so I am now wary of falling into that scum-trap. Thus, I suspect all those who i see as coaching over-much.)
4. BTW, my comment "what a mafia player out to be doing" does not equal "what a scum player ought to be doing."
5A. I have said in previous games that I tend to find myself agreeing with whoever speaks most recently, am easily swayed, etc. You are articulate and persuasive, and this raises my hackles because of previously being burned. (The time when I was responsible for us losing the game (59) because I believed Pooka over others comes hauntingly to mind.)
5B. I have oft observed that one of the scum players tends to be extremely talkative, and tries to steer us sheep, while another one hangs about in the background, out of sight, out of mind, and then subtly moves in and hammers or swings things in their direction. In my first game (57) HSL took the front row. In Carradice's first game, Yogsloth took the lead and SPF/Catte did the "hiding in plain sight." In fact, no-one suspected him of anything.
5C. You seem to be doing more of the talking than some; this makes you a trend toward suspect per 5B. You have talked several times--at length--about mechanics. You have also talked a good deal about non-mechanics.
You accused Joe early on, and have given a narrative that I find somewhat compelling--this is where it gets tricky for me. If he flips town (contrary to what I suspect), you are most likely scum who backed off when they saw a better target or that others took the planted bait. If he flips scum, this goes a deal towards town-clearing you, unless, of course, it was an early Scum V Scum vote to start convo and never meant to end in Scum!Joe's lunch. You could also be 3rd party who aligned yourself with scum or who erroneously sees Joe as scum. Or, (but I doubt it) this is TVT.
At this point, my head falls apart as I try to analyze "is this interaction TVT, SVS, TVS, SVT TV3rd,, or what?"
6. Residual concern over what I saw at the time as an attempt to shade me, which you have since tried to explain away. While I would like to believe you, I would also kick myself if it were proven to be false, ie if you are scum and actually were involved in shading, but backed off as soon as it was spotted.
7. Perhaps it would be better said that I don't see you as concrete scum, but as perhaps one of our best chances (compared to the other players, especially compared to the other players about whom there is anything like a consensus of public opinion) of eliminating scum, and so am willing to vote you.
Does this answer your question? I feel that i have forgotten something important...