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gogtrial34987: And then, look wider.
Micro questioned trent's read in #75 and #90.
Vitek was reminded of scum!trent in #76.
blotunga indicated strong dislike for trent's read in #81.
Blotunga then followed up with a remark about microfish in #84, which Lift spun out to an entire subthread via #85, #91, #100 and #113.
Joe questioned trent's read in #98.
dedo said he didn't like trent's read, but liked his explanations of the read in #134

So we have two players questioning trent on his read, two finding his read scummy to some degree, one who is ambivalent, and no one else saying much at all about it (I think; I might've missed someone else commenting; not pretending to be complete here).
How "pure" and solid do you feel each of those reactions to be if trent is town? What if trent is scum?
...
For the record, based on this "dynamic", do you find it likely that I could be scum without trent being so? Do you find it likely that trent could be scum without me being so?
I'll turn your question around at you. What about you? If you are town, do you think this read is coming from scum trent or town trent? If you were were scum, do you think that you have or could fool a town-trent enough to mislead him? I was going to question you about lift, but then you went ahead and said you couldn't read him accurately.
I know myself as being completely unable to accurately read Lift, though.
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gogtrial34987: I think his observation has merit, yes, based on the way I haunted scene in #55, trying to look as townie as possible. The thing here was that I knew scene would flip scum, so all I had to do was to keep digging, certain in the knowledge that his slips were real. (Of course, I didn't set out with that intent, but scene's answers were such that I couldn't back off.) I don't think my behaviour in that particular setting transposes very well to a regular game, where I couldn't do any real scum-hunting, so I'm doubting the strength of trent's town-read - but it's been 2+ years, so I can certainly believe that he's been left with that impression about my play.
I didn't play 55, nor have I read it. Could you please summarize how you knew Scene was scum? Gut? Concrete knowledge or abstract knowledge based off of assumptions?
No comment about your Stanley hotel game, as I don't recall many details.

++++++++

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GymHenson: 2. I pointed out how odd it was that NMillar dropped their vote on Catte, when there were only 2 votes on Catte at that time.

Musings for you and all other players: ALSO, oddly enough, NMillar then voted for me a bit later on.

Plus Catte never once responded about my vote on them.....make of that what you will, but to me it seems out of place.
have you voted for anyone yet? Do you think this is scum catte? nuetral catte? tired town catte? Do you think NMillar was odd enough to warrant a vote?
Your thoughts please on Trent Gogtrial & Joe?

+++

I am voting Joe but think the concensus (no doubt with at least one scum helping the narrative, so i have to be cautious here) is we have enough people questioning gogtrial to actually achieve a non-last minute lunch, and so am willing to switch to him, if only to avoid the dreaded NL and the connected lack of information.

+++

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phaolo: Micro's alphabet
You did read my reasoning? no secret message, just ordering my thoughts in alphabetical order and bolding those point letters, plus the mental game to see if i could?

+++

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Lifthrasil: And I think I have stated several times that using FOS is a scummy move. Or at least it is a move that can easily be used by scum to fake activity and is unnecessary for Town.
I would, but I was also voting and if the player is voting, i see it as a "i'm voting X, but I'm giving notice that I'm taking a close hard look at Y". Which I was, or so I thought.

+++

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Microfish_1: it might be something you have done (you say, but I don't recall), but has gogtrial done so? I remember not at all.
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my name is magike catte: My point was that I don't regard it as inherently scummy, however your question was pretty much my point. Does this seem un-gogtrially?

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nmillar: It's a reference to GH bread-crumbing his role a little bit too obviously on Day 1 in the previous game.
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my name is magike catte: It goes back further than that! Breadloafing is the term we coined in the previous Uniwizard Tournament, when GH's friend GR was a cop and breadcrumbed his results so obviously on D2 that we (the scum) immediately knew he was a cop. I'm still a bit broken up about the fact I was outvoted about NKing him... (it didn't end well for us)
I...don't know. I've only played one game (stanley hotel) with him previously, that I recall, and I recall very few specifics about others, other than that the mod (Lift?) gave us food at last, and that we tossed people into snowbanks. Maybe Lift recalls? I certainly dislike it and think it looks suspicious, but am I at "this is scum!gogtrial" levels of confidence? I think might I lean that way but I also really couldn't definitively say as yet, and won't until I see his flip.

Also, that was such a good game. Even a blind-as-a-bat town (me) could pick up on the breadloafing and play at follow-the-cop.

As I seem to be caught up, I'll drop this here.

I really don't care for people not voting after 5+ days of the game. They need to give us something to analyze.
rephrasing to hopefully fix the quotes

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Microfish_1: it might be something you have done (you say, but I don't recall), but has gogtrial done so? I remember not at all.
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my name is magike catte: My point was that I don't regard it as inherently scummy, however your question was pretty much my point. Does this seem un-gogtrially?

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nmillar: It's a reference to GH bread-crumbing his role a little bit too obviously on Day 1 in the previous game.
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my name is magike catte: It goes back further than that! Breadloafing is the term we coined in the previous Uniwizard Tournament, when GH's friend GR was a cop and breadcrumbed his results so obviously on D2 that we (the scum) immediately knew he was a cop. I'm still a bit broken up about the fact I was outvoted about NKing him... (it didn't end well for us)
I...don't know. I've only played one game (stanley hotel) with him previously, that I recall, and I recall very few specifics about others, other than that the mod (Lift?) gave us food at last, and that we tossed people into snowbanks. Maybe Lift recalls? I certainly dislike it and think it looks suspicious, but am I at "this is scum!gogtrial" levels of confidence? I think might I lean that way but I also really couldn't definitively say as yet, and won't until I see his flip.

Also, that was such a good game. Even a blind-as-a-bat town (me) could pick up on the breadloafing and play at follow-the-cop.

As I seem to be caught up, I'll drop this here.

I really don't care for people not voting after 5+ days of the game. They need to give us something to analyze.
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Lifthrasil: I didn't. Read again what I wrote.

@dedo, blotunga, catte: you're the ones not voting and the game is kind of stalled already. Is there anyone you would vote for at this stage?
Yea, sorry about that, was playing Pathfinder until late. I am quite undecided about whom to vote, but pressure is good so let's pile some.

vote nmillar

Yes, I'm aware I'm third, but at the moment I have no better ideas to get out of this stalemate.
If there are no objections, I'm going to oficially set the Day end on Tuesday 8pm UTC. Please let me know if there are any issues.
Sorry for like like that. I'm back now, will catch up today and resume posting normally.
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Microfish_1: have you voted for anyone yet? Do you think this is scum catte? nuetral catte? tired town catte? Do you think NMillar was odd enough to warrant a vote?
Your thoughts please on Trent Gogtrial & Joe?
On catte: I actually RVS voted for Catte awhile back.

Now usually he'd have at least made a joke or other reply about it. But this time? Nope, not one reply about my vote on him. It might not mean anything, but it does still seem a bit odd.

As for Nmillar: their actions(the unvoting they did) could be something or nothing, but I have little else to go on atm, due in part to how "good" I am at finding scum usually. Dunno if I want to bother switching votes atm.

About Gogtrial and Joe: Gogtrial seems to be acting the same as in past games, so hard to tell. Haven't focused on Joe much yet.

On voting: I'd(like with most games) prefer it to be one on my list(meh as it is in terms of reads), but i'll also go with near any other player atm to avoid a NL as well....so we have something extra to examine on D2, hopefully.
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gogtrial34987: Actual claim, joke, or deliberately not saying while keeping both possible?
I says what I means and I means what I says.

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gogtrial34987: I think his observation has merit, yes, based on the way I haunted scene in #55, trying to look as townie as possible.
I got kind of confused from your explanation about the games as I believe you had a mistake in one of the numberings. Were you scum (or at least anti-Town) in that game you refer to in the quote above?


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Microfish_1: 6. I was actively voting Joe, and didn't intend to unvote him.
Oh I missed that, OK then, thanks.


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Lifthrasil: @dedo, blotunga, catte: you're the ones not voting and the game is kind of stalled already. Is there anyone you would vote for at this stage?
I don't have anyone sticking out terribly, only minor things here and there.

Joe is tingling my... Never mind, work before play. He feels weird - like scum Joe who overdid it, got called out and came up with one of his logical chains to try and get out of the situation. So he's an option.

I also really don't appreciate your own #152. It rubs me in a wrong way because it feels like shading and that makes other things look in a similar way. For example this:

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Lifthrasil: Two, in a game where all kinds of words are permitted as votes, as long as they are bolded and on a separate line, it surprises me, that you are surprised that your bolded, separate line was counted as vote.
You feel like scum!Lift to me who is trying to make something stick.

Nmillar doesn't seem to partake a whole lot and apparently is sticking to his "usual" D1 where he'd vote Catte and then go with the flow. I think that's pretty much how it went last game and he was Town back then so I wouldn't say his lack of serious engagement is AI. I wouldn't vote for him based on that as that would be nothing other than punishment for his way of playing D1. I'd vote him to get a lynch, though.

At this point I'd vote pretty much anyone but myself but I have a slight preference for you, Lift, and Joe. Here goes.


votus Lift


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ZFR: If there are no objections, I'm going to oficially set the Day end on Tuesday 8pm UTC. Please let me know if there are any issues.
No objection on my part.
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JoeSapphire: and THEN I had the idea that ScumGogtrial was giving me an oppotunity: "town or scum, dear Joe?" he asks seductively, but inside his brain he's hoping "don't let me down my bro. The solution is in your grasp!"
I believe in literary terms this construct is called "Projection".

Also: *poke* you haven't posted in two days!

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dedoporno: I got kind of confused from your explanation about the games as I believe you had a mistake in one of the numberings. Were you scum (or at least anti-Town) in that game you refer to in the quote above?
I corrected the numbering mistake with an EBWOP, but yes, I was anti-town (and anti-mafia) in #55, which is where I haunted scene. (I was Neutral in #65.)
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phaolo: Random accusations in D1 will just make everyone suspicious of anything. It won't help townies.
Random accusations are all anyone ever has on D1. Everyone should be suspicious of anything!
What's potentially significant is who avoids whom, who seems to forget about previously voiced feelings and jumps to a new narrative, etc. In order to observe such slips, we need activity and interaction. It's completely in town's benefit to make certain this is happening.

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phaolo: IMO you did so because:
-1 you just wanted to "spice up" things in D1 for fun, whatever the outcome.
-2 or because you're scum.
The answer is:
-3 because I need input to analyze and in that way contribute to town's hopful victory, and none was happening on its own.

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phaolo: And I have no idea about what Trentonlf is, so his opinions about others are kinda moot for now.
That feels like a complete cop out.
If you're town, you don't know if trent is town or scum. But surely you can hypothesize about either scenario? If he dies in a day or two, he'll flip, and then you can go back to today's interactions and draw conclusions from it. All I'm asking you to do is to do so right now, so we can see what things you find important, as well as your consistency of thought, and not letting you get away with keeping all hiding places open just because you're one of those lucky newbies to have drawn scum in their first game.

For example, I drew the conclusion that if trent is scum, blotunga isn't.

Now you go.

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phaolo: Ah, pointing discussions surely feels more pro-town, but it came after your suspicious start (to me) and it's focusing too much on trent for my tastes.
You have a strange definition of "pro-town". My summary of the reactions and spin-off discussions from trent's statement was completely factual; anyone would be able to give such a summary from either alignment. All it was intended to do, was to show you that contrary to your statement, something was indeed happening, and could be looked at already.
The focus on trent was just because this was the clearest example with the most wide-ranging effects so far. I'd be equally happy for you to pick any other interaction and give your thoughts about them instead.
Also, if you're town, please try to observe things without letting it be colored by pre-conceived notions! Scum can and will try to make use of these things.

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phaolo: Btw Microfish's semi-concealed highlighted alphabet was weird.. it seemed like a failed (or trolling?) test to insert hidden messages. But.. it doesn't make sense as far as I know. Scum can freely communicate at night, right? And townies don't need secrecy.. or not? *scratches head*

Catte seemed annoyed for real, as far as I know.

Btw the various vote stacking (wagons?) that happened didn't seem that high to me to raise suspicions, frankly.
These are a good start! This is what we want from you!
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gogtrial34987: I corrected the numbering mistake with an EBWOP, but yes, I was anti-town (and anti-mafia) in #55, which is where I haunted scene. (I was Neutral in #65.)
When you say "haunted" what do you mean exactly?
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dedoporno: Nmillar doesn't seem to partake a whole lot and apparently is sticking to his "usual" D1 where he'd vote Catte and then go with the flow. I think that's pretty much how it went last game and he was Town back then so I wouldn't say his lack of serious engagement is AI. I wouldn't vote for him based on that as that would be nothing other than punishment for his way of playing D1. I'd vote him to get a lynch, though.
I always find it difficult to become fully engaged in D1. It's generally a matter of jumping on someone's weird sounding post and getting a lynch off the back of it just to gain some information. D2 is when it gets interesting, as the night results compared to people's voting patterns in D1 will generally offer some clues.

About time I came out of RVS.

Unvote GymHenson
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gogtrial34987: I corrected the numbering mistake with an EBWOP, but yes, I was anti-town (and anti-mafia) in #55, which is where I haunted scene. (I was Neutral in #65.)
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dedoporno: When you say "haunted" what do you mean exactly?
I didn't get off his case. I knew he was scum (someone asked me about that, which I'll get to properly in a bit, but as my lover Joe was mafia, I knew the composition of the entire mafia team), and I wanted the town-points for uncovering scum, so I kept poking at every post he made, pointing out every inconsistency in reasoning, etc. My play style involves reasonably long-winded back-and-forths anyway (I miss HSL!), but with scene it was a bit more so; purposefully trying to "set him up" with some leading questions. If anything, I think it's that which trent noticed and retained as the difference in my play style.
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gogtrial34987: I didn't get off his case.
...
If anything, I think it's that which trent noticed and retained as the difference in my play style.
Is it? Trent's argument appears to be that you are more likely to be proactive when Town and more reactive when not, therefore he gives you a Town read. The situation you're referring to seems to discredit this line of thinking.
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gogtrial34987: I didn't get off his case.
...
If anything, I think it's that which trent noticed and retained as the difference in my play style.
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dedoporno: Is it? Trent's argument appears to be that you are more likely to be proactive when Town and more reactive when not, therefore he gives you a Town read. The situation you're referring to seems to discredit this line of thinking.
No, the way I read his argument is the opposite of that. You're probably basing your interpretation on his original
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trentonlf: He is more reactive and pushing when he sees an opening than he is trying to create openings to push
but he clarified that in:
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trentonlf: The answer was in my post that I poorly worded "He is more reactive and pushing when he sees an opening than he is trying to create openings to push"

I see Town gogtrial being more reactive and pushing when he sees an opening and I see Scum gogtrial trying to create those openings to react to and push. It's subtle but it's all I can typically find different in his play style.
Finally ten minutes!
But!, that explanation doesn't fit with him town-reading me, as here I was very much not being reactive!

(I was focused too much on how his explanation might indeed be something I do as anti-town, and not enough on how it applies to his actions wrt the current game.)