I admit using his power role maybe wasn't the best thing to do, but I can completely understand his logic in doing so. While it could be seen that HijacK 'forced' him to claim, I'm inclined to believe him when he said he was going to claim anyway and hadn't even seen HijacK's post when he wrote his. It's not like he had posted 20 times today before role claiming. He role claimed in his first post since daybreak.
But as to why I seem as town, it's simply because I believe his claim, I think it perfectly explains Twilight's NK and because I can't see a PGO being scum, especially in a Role Madness game as it would be too powerful. He could be some kind of neutral role, but the only one I can think of that would fit is Survivor, but if that were the case I doubt he would have admitted to Twilight's NK and being a PGO, knowing it would likely get him killed at some point.

The only reason I am starting to consider the possibility of lynching him, is that it should probably be done eventually and it might solve the flip question. I believe he is town, so if he doesn't flip on lynch it would suggest the town kills theory is correct. Whereas if he flips town that would appear to suggest it is only scum or neutrals who get no flip. If he flips scum that throws any theories I have about flips out the window...

But I think that's only worth considering if we (mostly) come to the consensus he is town, otherwise we would all disagree on our findings. And lynching him when we consider him town is not a town thing to do...

Off topic: I found a temporary solution to my technical problem, so it seems the holidays will be the only obstacle for the time being.

And to get back to the game:

Not cool!

I'm not sure if this is standard, but in #23 we had a double voter (CSPVG if I'm not mistaken) and he specifically placed two votes.

Flubb is crazy enough to put whatever in this setup, so I guess it's a possibility. The thing is that there isn't really any benefit in trying to guess the role of whoever killed him or what possible roles we may have going.

Are you suggesting we lynch CSPVG or Yog, to a lesser extent, to see what will happen?

For what it's worth, if nobody else wants JMich, I'll take ddickinson next. (Welcome to your first game - here's a noose!) After that, cristigale.

After that I'm out of lurky players without a reasonable alibi.

I've lightened up on JMich, seems to be contributing more today and has had some good insights (as far as I'm concerned anyway).

I could definitely be persuaded to lynch ddickinson or cristigale though. Lurking combined with some suspicious behaviour (ddickinson anyway, cristigale is mostly just lurking a bit) can only be countered by the newbie excuse for so long...

Now we're talking! She has being hiding behind the "I'm new and not sire how to act way too much. There was also the "you can lynch him" incident, which went way too fast, considering how much heat I took for my "slip". Some additional small stuff here and there that just don't feel ok. A bit of innocent role fishing. She would have been my top pick if we didn't have all that other stuff going on.

JMich has contributed much more recently, it's true... but I feel he's just been repeatedly pointing out the obvious. That's not town points for me.

ddickinson has many slips, it's true... but what's scummy and what's newbie? My first game I was DESPERATE to appear town at first, and I had plenty of accusations of role-fishing as well, and I was Town.

Sorry guys I found out company is coming tomorrow sometime and not Christmas Day I have been wrapping and cooking like crazy. Other then to finish wrapping tonight and a trip to the bakery tomorrow I think I am caught up. Oh and cookies.. I need to bake more cookies at some point.

I will be reading back over the thread now to see what I missed today.

From what I am reading the janitor picks someone and then cleans up if they are killed. If I am reading this right and we are to assume Robb is a janitor then he did not kill TW. Hijack watched Twilight visit Robb not the other way around. So it would have to be if Robb was a janitor then Twilight visited him and left and then someone went and killed Twilight and then Robb went to find Twilight and found him dead and cleaned up the mess. I am not seeing this. Does a janitor also kill? From what I am reading it seems he just cleans up not does the killing. Can someone with experience tell me if this is correct?

That's what I thought when I first read the wiki (janitors only clean) However, the variation states "Janitors will learn the role and alignment of the players they kill...". I took "learning the role and alignment" to be the variation, not the "players they kill" part. Regardless, as you pointed out, the janitor would visit his target. Which means Robb being a janitor only works if both Robb visited TW and TW visited Robb. It's possible but highly unlikely. It might also work if some sort of redirection is involved, but that makes my head hurt.

After all that, we may still have a Janitor (but unlikely Robb). The wiki indicates a coroner probably implies the existence of a Janitor.

With this being a Role Madness game, I also wonder if we have a unique role designed by flubb.

We're over-thinking it all, methinks!!

@ dedo - thats the beauty of the claiming by Yog and CSPVG - I cant believe they both have pretty much the same role, yet the power of the role makes it difficult to pick one for lynch. I DO believe if we did manage to out the falseclaim, we would go a long way to winning the game, yes.

@ Yog - thanks for that answer.

@CSPVG - could you answer this question please? Are you Town, or are you Townie?

And this is where we differ. I think in a flub game everything is possible. We already have some kind of bastard game with limited flips, wich I wouldn't have expected either. So I think we can throw common pre-conceptions out. If we don't automatically assume that a certain role has to be town, we are left with analysing behaviour. And for me someone who ACTS against town is likely to actually BE against town. Sure, townies make mistakes too. But that is exactly what scum love to point out when caught at some anti-town behaviour. So my vote stands for now.


What's the difference?


Also: I'll be gone over Christmas for a few days without internet. On Sunday or Monday I'll be back.

This I agree with. What I don't agree with is to take a chance and hit one of them, hoping we get the right one (if there is one at all). Of course, we can't give them the benefit of the doubt indefinitely, but right now, while we still get nothing usable from deaths and we don't have a more clear understanding of the inner mechanics of the game I'm not on board with taking down one of the supposed people that are most likely our ticket out of Mysteryville. As soon as we make some progress there and we can work with the information on a potential cop lynch no matter the flip and/or we catch them lying, then it may be worth it tons. But not before that. At least for me.

I agree. Although I think we could go a long way to winning if we did pick the right one, we don't have enough info yet on either of them - which is why I'm asking them both a few questions...

Of the two claims I believe yog's the most. The timing of CSPVG's was not good. It sowed more confusion than it did to benefit town. I tend to believe both claims, but if no consensus can be reached on anything I would lean towards CSPVG being the most viable option for a Lynch.