I'm not sure about either one, but am more inclined to believe HijacK is Town or at least have him more leaning Town.

The things that bother me about Robbeasy are the actual role claimed (it is pretty convenient shield if you are actually anti-town) and the decision to activate his ability on N1 (even though he gave his reasoning for it).

I'm not exactly claiming he is lying, but as many have already said, there are some strong theories as to why his claim could be false. The problem is that we only have his word on it. With nothing else to go on, it seems silly to just accept it without scrutinising the possibilities. Was it a desperate attempt to protect him from HijacK's claim? Did he kill DarkoD13 and is using this excuse to make us think he is responsible for Twilight instead? Did Twilight discover something and Robbeasy killed him to keep it quiet? We don't know. I would rather air on the side of caution and think he was leaning towards Scum, and find out through questioning that he wasn't, then think he was Town and have him prove us wrong during the next night. I am not saying he is Scum, I am just keeping that option open.

I think it's possible that he used the power out of curiosity, thought maybe not very likely for someone who has played a few Mafia games. I also think some of what he says could make sense, but we have no proof of anything, just that two people were murdered and that our only lead so far is Robbeasy's claim, which could have possibly been influenced by HijacK's claim. He fully admits he stood a better chance hitting a Town on N1 and not a non-Town, but he used it anyway. Seems a bit strange to use such a power when you think that chances are you will hit another Town.

I did have other thoughts at the time, but others have said them since I sent my message, unfortunately I have been busy at work and not being able to be online much.

Nope, I instigated no night actions. I was just curious to know if you had used your bonus prize, if not, what are you keeping it for? No real reason why, other than curiosity.


As HijacK said, it's not really a common trait of Mafia to do something like this, though there are cases of it all over the world, it's just not common. Most want to leave something as a sign, a message, and few are willing to go to all the hard work of grinding a body up and making them into nachos. Maybe if it had been a severed head, but why would they need to grind the body up, unless it was hiding how he was killed, and maybe the method would help us identify the killer.

I may be over thinking this, but it would take some time to grind Darko up and make individual nachos out of him, especially if they did this by hand and did not use and industrial meat grinder. Another thing to consider is that the knives in a diner would not really be up to scratch to dice up a body and make mince meat out of him. The fact there were no bones, or rather, no mention of the bones, this would mean that it had to be an industrial meat grinder, or that he was diced up elsewhere and brought to the diner, meaning the bones would be left somewhere else. It would also be interesting to find out how we knew who it was, especially if he had been grounded up into nachos.


This would possibly explain why Darko was killed. They could have learned of his role (through investigation) during N0 and then used the first chance they got to NK him during N1, to stop him offering us any help with role flips.

Where did you see that Hijack knew TB was killed because he visited Robb? Maybe I missed something but I thought Hijack said he knew Twilight visited Robb not that there was a killing. I figured he assumed Robb did it since Twilight was at Robbs during the night.

I didn't. It's because while a tracker knows who their target visited, they cannot know what caused them to die. So I'm trying to find the reasoning behind the "False claim PGO before someone else outs you" train of thought.
Any role that can show Robb killed Twilight should also be able to show that Robb isn't a Paranoid Gun Owner, since either Robb would have to have visited Twilight, or the role would have to have visited Robb (and survive).

Unless there's a role I'm missing. Or if Robb knows how to place the wine goblets expertly.

Quick Sunday morning chip-in:

I want no part of lynching Robb today. JMich - for all my digs at him earlier - has excellent points on the difficulty of faking this role claim, given the likelihood that HijacK tracked TB instead of watching Robb. I suppose only HijacK can truly confirm that, but as it stands for me now, PGO fits the entire scenario perfectly and I would need convincing evidence that Robb was lying to go for a lynch at this point.

Just wanted to leave this here. I am in winter break, but college apps and scholarships keep me busy, so I didn't have time to catch up with the thread. However, I came to the conclusion there must be a reason why Twilight decided to investigate/visit/whatever he was doing Robb, so if anyone with more spare time would look behind to their posts and pin point exactly why TB suspected Robb, maybe this will give us more info on Robb himself.

This is exactly where I am. I've followed the whole argument, and the only result is that Lift and Dedo are leaning more towards scum, and JMich more towards town.

There is no real bonus for Robb to claim PGO, especially after my spectacular attempt last game. The only reason I can see to admit to being a PGO right now, is because he NK'd someone and wanted to confess; which is exactly what he claims happened. Dedo and Lift's refusal to see this is stubborn at the very least, or scummy as hell at the worst.

I won't be quite as busy as I thought as work turned out to be a bit of a wash out, so I should be able to keep up with the thread and post on an evening.

Also, I've been saying this for days! Doesn't anyone listen to me?

Huh? What? Where does the Doctor now come from? What cop investigated what Doctor? What are you talking about?

And what role HijacK has is not as important, I think, as Robb's reaction to the announcement that HijacK hat watched Twilight at night. It forced his hand and made him claim.
I don't know what role HijacK has and I don't like your repeated role fishing. Basically you ask HijacK to claim as well - and from a town point of view we already had too many claims so early in the game. So why do you insist so much on revealing Hijack's role?

I said numerous times I believe his role claim and what he says happened. I just don't like the idea of standing guard with so many townies around, knowing it's a role madness and two claimed cops. By the way we (or at least I) haven't said we need to lynch him stat just because. If the deadline is upon us and we don't have anything else - maybe, but not now.

Any chance of enlightening the rest of us about this other player and the mental gymnastics you mentioned?


May I ask why you're asking Robbeasy this specific question?


Do you expect me to satisfy the curiosity of someone I'm not convinced that they're town? If you are town, you should be interested in actively scumhunting.


First off, please answer trentonlf's question here, and also tell us why you chose your target.

Next, I did a reread on TwilightBard's and Robbeasy's post from the beginning of N0 till the start of D2.
TwilightBard posted 17 times in total, and Robbeasy 14 times; they didn't have a single direct interaction.

I did find something interesting though that happened during the discussion of the town win-condition - TwilightBard had a few, on the confrontational side, exchanges with DarkoD13, and TwilightBard voted DarkoD13. Shortly afterwards, Robbeasy jumped into the picture, strongly agreeing with DarkoD13 and voted on TwilighttBard (his vote was on dedoporno till then). TwilightBard questioned Robbeasy's certainty on the matter while still arguing with DarkoD13, but without confronting Robbeasy. Both and [url=https://www.gog.com/forum/general/gog_mafia_25_terror_at_tres_leches/post869]Robbeasy retracted their votes a bit later.

A couple of other things that caught my interest:

TwilightBard replied to flubbucket saying he does enough cleaning up work. This could have been just a joke, or a reference to his work of line in the physical world, but I wondered if it perhaps was a hint to his role - cleaner --> hitman, assasin or something along the lines. Checking the roles over at MafiaWiki, I couldn't find anything that would fit the outcome of the night events though, unless he was a [url=http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Poisoner]Poisoner, or Robbeasy is also Bulletproof.

Robbeasy repeatedly expressed his doubts about both CSPVG and yogsloth being investigative Town Cops, and commented twice in his post here about the possibility of scum leaving the cops alone to keep the confusion going. Perhaps this triggered TwilightBard's interest in him?

I suggest that someone else also do a reread, as I quite likely may be missing something due to inexperience.


I don't like that Robbeasy confirmed my suspicion that he wanted to live the experience of using his power with no regard to who his target could be.
I also don't like how JMich claims he's got no interest in HijacK's role and that he's happy to wait for a later reveal, yet keeps arguing around what role HijacK potentially has. Which is the only thing he's posting about whenever he comes out of his lurking.


And I was thinking - since DarkoD13 was our Coroner, wouldn't he have made use of his power and try to get a reveal for RWarehall? Where would he have to go to do that? Was RWarehall removed from the town square? I lean towards that his killer knew about his role (from N0) and where to find him last night. Not sure if the nachos platter carries a message in and of itself, or if it was just to conceal the actual way and means he was killed with.

I also wonder if these details have anything to do with the actual game, as in if the players supply flubbucket with them or if our mod adds them to give us hints (that for the time only confuse us), or if he just makes this stuff up for the sake of narration. Thoughts?

Overall, great writeup. Thanks for all this. I'll add some thoughts:

I suspect this is exactly it. I find it unlikely that both Robb and TB were scum - or at least scum on the same team. If TB was town, he was probably an investigator of some sort. If scum - and that "cleanup" post is a good find - then who knows what he was doing...


People keep saying this. You don't like it or you think it's actively scummy? Give a man a toy, he's going to play with it. I completely get his reasoning on using his ability night one. As much as I joked about my impending doom, I thought it would be about 40% chance CSPVG would be the NK, target, 10% me, and 50% someone else entirely. Scum picked someone else, which seems to have been Robb's line of reasoning as well.


Note that I'll take a couple of other users in a lynch today, but JMich is still at the top of my list. His contributions today/last night (my time zone) were his most valuable all game. I don't think much in the way of traditional scumhunting is useful in this game, but if you're lynching lurkers, you might as well get the one tingling your Spidey sense the most.


Ahhh, I really don't think you can read too much into the actual Nacho death, other than it was crazy and depraved. I think we're over-thinking the details here. Darko's night action was certainly to investigate RW's claim, but who knows who targeting him or why. N0 scan seems like a good reason, if scum got that lucky... but of course, they might have, as I certainly hit the jackpot with my N0 investigation.

OFFICIAL VOTE COUNT


JMich 1 - (yogsloth)
CSPVG 2 - (Robbeasy, Ixamyakxim)
Robbeasy 1 - (Lifthrasil)


Not Voting - All others

sorry got it the wrong way round - i meant tracker..;)

@Lifthrasil - so I sacrifice myself as scum, in the hope I 'might be given a couple more days' ? Nope, makes no sense to me. Surely as scum I wouldn't make such an extreme claim, knowing I would be lynched anyway? I would come up with something else, or just plain deny whatever evidence is presented and talk my way out of it.

@Dedo - funnily enough, I'm thinking yourself and Lifthrasil at the moment most likely scum - trying to make waaaay too much out of what is a fairly simple claim from myself, which is easy to resolve.

I have no mention of being Bulletproof, but my night flavour just said someone 'stepped in my yard' - perhaps I shot them before they got chance to do anything themselves?

Final plea - could everyone please stop re-iterating how stupid it was for me to stand guard first night? I'm aware , already...;)

This is off topic:

I f*cking hate barefoot essentials + convenient technology solutions sometimes!!!!!! I wrote a post for almost and hour just to left swipe accidentally, go back one page and lose everything from the quick answer field.

I actually cried out in anger and woke the kid up.

I advise everyone who doesn't already do this to write their posts elsewhere first and post only when done.