It seems that you're using an outdated browser. Some things may not work as they should (or don't work at all).
We suggest you upgrade newer and better browser like: Chrome, Firefox, Internet Explorer or Opera

×
"China" returned 20 posts
Clear search criteria
high rated
Dear friends of GOG,

I'm an empathic guy. Really. I am not the type of angry person who spends all day on the internet practicing hate speech or igniting arguments. I believe in dialogue and the possibility of collective construction. This is one of my maxims in life. That said, allow me: I know it must not be easy for you what has happened!

Problems involving Cyberpunk are everywhere, and I was there defending CDPR employees for finding disgusting crunch practices, but I am also the guy who will repudiate any and all censorship practices, and from there we come to the episode of "Devotion ".

It is not just today that you, the GOG team, have received criticism about the lack of transparency in your actions. We still do not know what kind of methodology you use to approve or not a game in the store or because you try to push the galaxy as something mandatory (even selling the idea of ​​being optional), for example. These things, in general, don't bother me so much. I keep finding you the best digital PC game store and I will not abandon you due to the latest events, but you MUST recognize that you made a mistake, and made an UGLY mistake with one of the most insolent and insane justifications I've ever seen in this medium.

GOG, I know you can't talk about it, but I speak for you: dealing with the Chinese government and its censorship laws is not easy. We know, GOG. We know. And it is understandable that you should have given up releasing a game under the penalty of what we assume to be some kind of sanction that prevents CDPR from selling its products in one of the largest economies in the world. I am also empathetic about this, and I reiterate that it is certainly an equally difficult situation for you, but pay attention to the narrative you have created: blaming the players, THE PLAYERS, GOG, your CLIENTS, to justify the cancellation of a game.

Do you have public relations on your staff? If they don't, I advise hiring one immediately, otherwise I suggest rethinking this employee, because surely he or she is performing this role in the worst possible way. It is really pathetic from a communicational point of view.

Look at the tsunami of negative feedback that you have been receiving, not necessarily for going back on the launch of Devotion around here, but for the primary way in which you interact with your customers.

Honestly, you could have managed this situation in multiple ways. They could, for example, have said something like "Look, guys, unfortunately we had some problems launching Devotion around here, so we apologize to the developer and our customers for what happened. We will work hard so that in the future we can resolve this situation". Do you see how easy it would be? You would not need to mention objectively why, as we understand that this would compromise you, but the form and content of the message that you published was basically calling us, your customers, dumb. Sorry, but this is the reality!

Yes, it is likely that there would be reactions and manifestos in the same way, but the intensity would be a thousand times less, because at least you would have given us a message like "we are sad about this and we understand you". There would be a degree of empathy on our part, do you understand?

Unfortunately, and nevertheless, you managed to make matters worse by requiring the moderators of the GOG page on Reedit to remove the flag of China as soon as, which they added only temporarily to legitimately protest the situation.

Error after error, you managed to create an unrestrained train that grows more and more every minute, and tarnishes the good reputation that you have had the effort to build during the last years.

You cannot correct the error. What happened, happened, but you need to be humble enough to, as I said before, recognize that you were wrong in approach, in form and in content, so that in the future we will be able to re-establish degrees of trust and respect for you, which have collapsed a lot in past hours.

I apologize for the harsh words, but this is the manifestation of someone who is not only a customer of the store, but also wants you to grow more and more.

Reflect!
I wonder what would have happened if they had come forward with "We're sorry, but we can't release Devotion. The game causes political trouble in China which is an important market we can't miss. Also getting blocked in China would mean our valued Chinese customers would lose access to their games."
avatar
toxicTom: I wonder what would have happened if they had come forward with "We're sorry, but we can't release Devotion. The game causes political trouble in China which is an important market we can't miss. Also getting blocked in China would mean our valued Chinese customers would lose access to their games."
Same thing most likely.
high rated
avatar
toxicTom: I wonder what would have happened if they had come forward with "We're sorry, but we can't release Devotion. The game causes political trouble in China which is an important market we can't miss. Also getting blocked in China would mean our valued Chinese customers would lose access to their games."
avatar
Sachys: Same thing most likely.
Yes, but at least they would be noble in presenting a fact and not blaming OWN CLIENTS.

I keep finding this the height of insanity!
high rated
It's clear what happened: the CCP threatened to cut off CDPR's access to the lucrative market in China if CDPR dared to list a game on GOG that the CCP has blacklisted. CDPR made this decision for one simple reason: money. Very few companies have "principles" beyond "make as much money as possible." CDPR has shown itself to be no different than most in this regard. Writing heartfelt expressions of disappointment in CDPR while also stating that you'll continue to support the company is telling them exactly what they want to hear. CDPR has made it clear that it's only concerned about money. To get their attention, they'll need to suffer financial consequences for their cowardice. To me, that means never purchasing another game through the GOG store. I already deactivated my ActiBlizz account. GOG is just another dead body on the pile now as far as I'm concerned.
avatar
Razzzmatazz: It's clear what happened: the CCP threatened to cut off CDPR's access to the lucrative market in China if CDPR dared to list a game on GOG that the CCP has blacklisted. CDPR made this decision for one simple reason: money. Very few companies have "principles" beyond "make as much money as possible." CDPR has shown itself to be no different than most in this regard. Writing heartfelt expressions of disappointment in CDPR while also stating that you'll continue to support the company is telling them exactly what they want to hear. CDPR has made it clear that it's only concerned about money. To get their attention, they'll need to suffer financial consequences for their cowardice. To me, that means never purchasing another game through the GOG store. I already deactivated my ActiBlizz account. GOG is just another dead body on the pile now as far as I'm concerned.
Suppose I stop shopping here, now, where am I going to buy? Or do you think Steam and Epic are "fragrant"? In this case it is not optional, we are talking about the "less worst".
high rated
avatar
toxicTom: I wonder what would have happened if they had come forward with "We're sorry, but we can't release Devotion. The game causes political trouble in China which is an important market we can't miss. Also getting blocked in China would mean our valued Chinese customers would lose access to their games."
avatar
Sachys: Same thing most likely.
For many though this isn't just a "single issue". It's more like a "Perfect Storm" of chronic mis-management that's resulting in a "Straw that broke the camel's back" effect:-

- GOG didn't just remove a Taiwanese game from the store due to pressure from China...

- ...they doubled down on stupid by blaming "gamers" for removal despite what was obviously political pressure by China via "50 Cent Army" proxy 'bloggers' that everyone (except GOG) can clearly see, insulting everyone's intelligence in the process...

- ... And did so immediately on the back of a bad launch of CDPR's flagship game Cyberpunk 2077...

- ... To which many are seeking refunds for only to find out that GOG's once excellent customer service is now possibly the worst of all stores (far longer to issue refunds than Steam, Ubisoft or Origin), and they seem to have the same amount of full-time support staff for a store of 4,000x games selling however many millions of units of CDPR games that they did back when they were a store of 400 games. Many people new to GOG due to Cyberpunk are saying "This is the first and last game I'm buying here" due to the customer service "experience". What could have been a great opportunity to bring more people here is fast turning into an "avoid this store at all costs at the moment" PR nightmare.

- On top of that, many GOG customers are already disillusioned about the potential impact of GOG selling Epic games via Galaxy, especially with GOG's own moderators tweeting about the future being selling DRM'd games via Galaxy...

- On top of that, many GOG customers are already disillusioned about the increasingly obvious "2nd class citizen" treatment of offline installers (out of date installers, needing Galaxy to access 'bonus content' in single-player games, refusing to provide the last good prior versions of offline installers for some games where the newest version is buggy, no pre-loading for CP2077 despite doing it for Witcher 2 & 3, gating free games that were formerly given out as offline installers behind Galaxy, etc)

- On top of that, many GOG customers are already disillusioned about the other "2nd class citizen" treatment of GOG releases as a whole vs Steam (missing updates vs Steam, lack of features / languages, no Linux builds, etc)

^ Any one of these is annoying. Everything combined though all seems to have converged to a point a time where this store really is struggling to get the basics right on almost anything to such an alarming degree that a lot of people clearly feel that it's no longer possible to blindly give GOG "the benefit of the doubt for being the underdog" until they attempt to at least begin to show they intend to turn one thing on above list around, let alone actually address all of them...
Post edited December 17, 2020 by AB2012
avatar
Razzzmatazz: It's clear what happened: the CCP threatened to cut off CDPR's access to the lucrative market in China if CDPR dared to list a game on GOG that the CCP has blacklisted. CDPR made this decision for one simple reason: money. Very few companies have "principles" beyond "make as much money as possible." CDPR has shown itself to be no different than most in this regard. Writing heartfelt expressions of disappointment in CDPR while also stating that you'll continue to support the company is telling them exactly what they want to hear. CDPR has made it clear that it's only concerned about money. To get their attention, they'll need to suffer financial consequences for their cowardice. To me, that means never purchasing another game through the GOG store. I already deactivated my ActiBlizz account. GOG is just another dead body on the pile now as far as I'm concerned.
avatar
Patias: Suppose I stop shopping here, now, where am I going to buy? Or do you think Steam and Epic are "fragrant"? In this case it is not optional, we are talking about the "less worst".
At least when the game was removed from Steam, it sounded like it was actually the developer who removed it (given the developer's statements at the time). Maybe I'm unaware of something, but I don't recall a similar situation where Steam or Epic so blatantly bowed to the demands of the CCP censors.

If we're going to criticize CDPR for selling out its "principles" for money, can we really just claim to have no choice in the matter? My hobby of gaming isn't worth compromising my principles. But it's always easier to insist that others follow principle than ourselves.
avatar
Razzzmatazz: It's clear what happened: the CCP threatened to cut off CDPR's access to the lucrative market in China if CDPR dared to list a game on GOG that the CCP has blacklisted. CDPR made this decision for one simple reason: money. Very few companies have "principles" beyond "make as much money as possible." CDPR has shown itself to be no different than most in this regard. Writing heartfelt expressions of disappointment in CDPR while also stating that you'll continue to support the company is telling them exactly what they want to hear. CDPR has made it clear that it's only concerned about money. To get their attention, they'll need to suffer financial consequences for their cowardice. To me, that means never purchasing another game through the GOG store. I already deactivated my ActiBlizz account. GOG is just another dead body on the pile now as far as I'm concerned.
avatar
Patias: Suppose I stop shopping here, now, where am I going to buy? Or do you think Steam and Epic are "fragrant"? In this case it is not optional, we are talking about the "less worst".
My thought on this is simple, if GOG goes down the route of Steam, why would I shop here when Steam does most things better than GOG? The only thing left that differentiates GOG from Steam is the availability of offline installers and the lack of a need for a client. Normally I'd feel better about saying that, but when GOG is quick to abandon its other principles and watering down its DRM-free promises (even to the extent of profiting off of sales of DRM games via the Epic store integration, failing to maintain the offline installers, etc.), I don't have much hope for GOG going forward.
high rated
avatar
Sachys: Same thing most likely.
avatar
AB2012: For many though this isn't just a "single issue". It's more like a "Perfect Storm" of chronic mis-management that's resulting in a "Straw that broke the camel's back" effect:-

- GOG didn't just remove a Taiwanese game from the store due to pressure from China...

- ...they doubled down on stupid by blaming "gamers" for removal despite what was obviously political pressure by China via "50 Cent Army" proxy 'bloggers' that everyone (except GOG) can clearly see, insulting everyone's intelligence in the process...

- ... And did so immediately on the back of a bad launch of CDPR's flagship game Cyberpunk 2077...

- ... To which many are seeking refunds for only to find out that GOG's once excellent customer service is now possibly the worst of all stores (far longer to issue refunds than Steam, Ubisoft or Origin), and they seem to have the same amount of full-time support staff for a store of 4,000x games selling however many millions of units of CDPR games that they did back when they were a store of 400 games. Many people new to GOG due to Cyberpunk are saying "This is the first and last game I'm buying here" due to the customer service "experience". What could have been a great opportunity to bring more people here is fast turning into an "avoid this store at all costs at the moment" PR nightmare.

- On top of that, many GOG customers are already disillusioned about the potential impact of GOG selling Epic games via Galaxy, especially with GOG's own moderators tweeting about the future being selling DRM'd games via Galaxy...

- On top of that, many GOG customers are already disillusioned about the increasingly obvious "2nd class citizen" treatment of offline installers (out of date installers, needing Galaxy to access 'bonus content' in single-player games, refusing to provide the last good prior versions of offline installers for some games where the newest version is buggy, no pre-loading for CP2077 despite doing it for Witcher 2 & 3, gating free games that were formerly given out as offline installers behind Galaxy, etc)

- On top of that, many GOG customers are already disillusioned about the other "2nd class citizen" treatment of GOG releases as a whole vs Steam (missing updates vs Steam, lack of features / languages, no Linux builds, etc)

^ Any one of these is annoying. Everything combined though all seems to have converged to a point a time where this store really is struggling to get the basics right on almost anything to such an alarming degree that a lot of people clearly feel that it's no longer possible to blindly give GOG "the benefit of the doubt for being the underdog" until they attempt to at least begin to show they intend to turn one thing on above list around, let alone actually address all of them...
CDP isn't having a very good month, are they? Kind of a shame given how much hype and effort went into CP2077. Corporate is going to have to do some major damage control, since as you say it's just a perfect storm of bad press.

Of course, if CDP was ever going to crash and burn, I suppose 2020 is the time to do it. Take a number, and all that...
Except they can talk about it. They are not owned by china. they do not have to respect any chinese laws. They are a store front that makes their own rules. The fact that they don't want to talk about it has nothing to do with the Chinese government or censorship laws and everything to do with the fact that an honest answer would tank their reputation even more than a blatant lie. Let that sink in for a while.
avatar
MarkoH01: I really appreciate the outrage but unfortunately this will just be another thread GOG will ignore without saying anything at all. No explanations, no apologies, just silence. Because unfortunately that is what GOG has become. They might still bring us great games ... well most of them anyway ;) ... but when it comes to communication with their customer base they now obviously have the policy to lie to them or just say nothing. Both things I dislike a lot. It's really a pity - in 2017 when I talked to them in person I actually believed them every word ... today, I am starting to think about the question if I should believe them anything at all. They simply lied too much, they simply broke too many promises. This is just the tip of the iceberg. Yes, right ow I am quite angry with GOG - not the store, but their policy and everybody who is responsible for this crap lie/silent policy.

But like I said, all our outgrage will simply be ignored anyway - so maybe it is just wasted time after all :(
It's not a waste of time at all. Everyday the optics of the situation grows worse for them. Their excuse was that gamers don't want Devotion on the store. Every single person who speaks up is challenging that claim and that's all that matters. Exposing them for the liars they are will have an impact far greater than you think. It's already choking their marketing channels. Their twitter is afraid to tweet. They are hurting their reputation day by day, and even if that only means a few lost sales on this platform, that's still a success that is worth the effort. Personally I can't bring myself to buy anything on this store right now and I'm not even boycotting them. It just feels wrong giving them money right now. It makes my stomach uneasy.
Post edited December 19, 2020 by FallenHeroX1
avatar
AB2012: For many though this isn't just a "single issue". It's more like a "Perfect Storm" of chronic mis-management that's resulting in a "Straw that broke the camel's back" effect:-

- GOG didn't just remove a Taiwanese game from the store due to pressure from China...

- ...they doubled down on stupid by blaming "gamers" for removal despite what was obviously political pressure by China via "50 Cent Army" proxy 'bloggers' that everyone (except GOG) can clearly see, insulting everyone's intelligence in the process...

- ... And did so immediately on the back of a bad launch of CDPR's flagship game Cyberpunk 2077...

- ... To which many are seeking refunds for only to find out that GOG's once excellent customer service is now possibly the worst of all stores (far longer to issue refunds than Steam, Ubisoft or Origin), and they seem to have the same amount of full-time support staff for a store of 4,000x games selling however many millions of units of CDPR games that they did back when they were a store of 400 games. Many people new to GOG due to Cyberpunk are saying "This is the first and last game I'm buying here" due to the customer service "experience". What could have been a great opportunity to bring more people here is fast turning into an "avoid this store at all costs at the moment" PR nightmare.

- On top of that, many GOG customers are already disillusioned about the potential impact of GOG selling Epic games via Galaxy, especially with GOG's own moderators tweeting about the future being selling DRM'd games via Galaxy...

- On top of that, many GOG customers are already disillusioned about the increasingly obvious "2nd class citizen" treatment of offline installers (out of date installers, needing Galaxy to access 'bonus content' in single-player games, refusing to provide the last good prior versions of offline installers for some games where the newest version is buggy, no pre-loading for CP2077 despite doing it for Witcher 2 & 3, gating free games that were formerly given out as offline installers behind Galaxy, etc)

- On top of that, many GOG customers are already disillusioned about the other "2nd class citizen" treatment of GOG releases as a whole vs Steam (missing updates vs Steam, lack of features / languages, no Linux builds, etc)

^ Any one of these is annoying. Everything combined though all seems to have converged to a point a time where this store really is struggling to get the basics right on almost anything to such an alarming degree that a lot of people clearly feel that it's no longer possible to blindly give GOG "the benefit of the doubt for being the underdog" until they attempt to at least begin to show they intend to turn one thing on above list around, let alone actually address all of them...
avatar
NovusBogus: CDP isn't having a very good month, are they? Kind of a shame given how much hype and effort went into CP2077. Corporate is going to have to do some major damage control, since as you say it's just a perfect storm of bad press.

Of course, if CDP was ever going to crash and burn, I suppose 2020 is the time to do it. Take a number, and all that...
Cyberpunk is one thing. A problem that can be fixed and any fan of the Witcher games knows that they will put in the effort to do right by their fans. Good luck wiping the stink of china off though. Once it's there, it's stuck, just like with Epic games, NBA, etc. The only recourse on the subject is to put Devotion on the store, there is no other way to control that damage. That will follow them forever. They can either rip the band aid off and let the wound heal, or let it fester in the dark as if it doesn't exist, but we know it does and it will be fuel ready to light again and again, whenever they make a misstep.
Post edited December 19, 2020 by FallenHeroX1
I am so disapointed CDPR.... First releasing a game cleary unfinished like Bethesda and now bending the knee to China like Blizzard...
CDPR, you lost a lot of goodwill and trust. 2020, what a crappy year...
low rated
avatar
Razzzmatazz: It's clear what happened: the CCP threatened to cut off CDPR's access to the lucrative market in China if CDPR dared to list a game on GOG that the CCP has blacklisted. CDPR made this decision for one simple reason: money. Very few companies have "principles" beyond "make as much money as possible."
If I was a GOG/CDP shareholder, I probably would have demanded CDP will do whatever it must to secure my investment so that I don't lose it, as long as it is not something illegal or clubbing baby seals (I love baby seals).

So yeah, I would have probably told them NOT to release a game that is a politically a hot potato in the store, if it jeopardizes their business in China. UNLESS, they are able to convince me that in the end doing this would bring GOG more money, than lose it. Convincing me that it makes business sense to piss off the leader of China would take some time though.

There is a reason people buy shares of companies: to make even more money. Capital investments man.

avatar
Punington: 1. Censoring/Taking down a work of art over political pressure coming from a despotic dictatorship is not understandable, it's despicable.
First of all, they didn't "take it down". They refused to release a title they learned was politically a hot potato. And that in itself is not the same as siding with or promoting the dictatorship of China, it is about not wanting to get involved in political issues that may affect the business.

If you feel GOG shouldn't care if China blocked GOG operating at all in the Chinese market and possibly ran a series of DDoS attacks on GOG servers... go tell that also to Steam and other stores, or any other companies that make any kind of business with China.

People do virtue-signalling in issues where it is convenient for them. If I demanded you to make a political statement that would possibly get you fired from your job and cause you a personal bankruptcy where you lose all your life savings, I shouldn't act surprised if you declined.

Releasing a politically hot game in their store is a strong political statement in itself.
Post edited December 19, 2020 by timppu
avatar
MarkoH01: I really appreciate the outrage but unfortunately this will just be another thread GOG will ignore without saying anything at all. No explanations, no apologies, just silence. Because unfortunately that is what GOG has become. They might still bring us great games ... well most of them anyway ;) ... but when it comes to communication with their customer base they now obviously have the policy to lie to them or just say nothing. Both things I dislike a lot. It's really a pity - in 2017 when I talked to them in person I actually believed them every word ... today, I am starting to think about the question if I should believe them anything at all. They simply lied too much, they simply broke too many promises. This is just the tip of the iceberg. Yes, right ow I am quite angry with GOG - not the store, but their policy and everybody who is responsible for this crap lie/silent policy.

But like I said, all our outgrage will simply be ignored anyway - so maybe it is just wasted time after all :(
Unfortunately I agree with every word, Mark.
avatar
Razzzmatazz: It's clear what happened: the CCP threatened to cut off CDPR's access to the lucrative market in China if CDPR dared to list a game on GOG that the CCP has blacklisted. CDPR made this decision for one simple reason: money. Very few companies have "principles" beyond "make as much money as possible."
avatar
timppu: If I was a GOG/CDP shareholder, I probably would have demanded CDP will do whatever it must to secure my investment so that I don't lose it, as long as it is not something illegal or clubbing baby seals (I love baby seals).

So yeah, I would have probably told them NOT to release a game that is a politically a hot potato in the store, if it jeopardizes their business in China. UNLESS, they are able to convince me that in the end doing this would bring GOG more money, than lose it. Convincing me that it makes business sense to piss off the leader of China would take some time though.

There is a reason people buy shares of companies: to make even more money. Capital investments man.

avatar
Punington: 1. Censoring/Taking down a work of art over political pressure coming from a despotic dictatorship is not understandable, it's despicable.
avatar
timppu: First of all, they didn't "take it down". They refused to release a title they learned was politically a hot potato. And that in itself is not the same as siding with or promoting the dictatorship of China, it is about not wanting to get involved in political issues that may affect the business.

If you feel GOG shouldn't care if China blocked GOG operating at all in the Chinese market and possibly ran a series of DDoS attacks on GOG servers... go tell that also to Steam and other stores, or any other companies that make any kind of business with China.

People do virtue-signalling in issues where it is convenient for them. If I demanded you to make a political statement that would possibly get you fired from your job and cause you a personal bankruptcy where you lose all your life savings, I shouldn't act surprised if you declined.

Releasing a politically hot game in their store is a strong political statement in itself.
This is exactly my point. And I say again: I think it is disgusting that we have to come to this, to think this way, but it is what it is, the rotten way in which some things in the world work.
Post edited December 22, 2020 by Patias