I don't think you've accounted for the possibility, which I've hinted at fairly strongly, that I, and potentially others, may have had multiple visits.

Of the two brain reads, I would also tend to assume one was RW and that it was unlikely to recur on N2 in any case.

Deeper and deeper the party went. It began to grow noticeably cold, but still, the stench – the eternal, damnable stench – never lessened. They found fewer and fewer goblins (and dispatched those few quite handily) until at last, they came to an area where the dungeon walls smoothed out and all signs of goblin occupation ceased.

“We must be even more careful,” intoned the Grand Wizard, “We are entering an area where even the goblins fear to tread.”

The adventurers quaked, shivered, and wretched in misery.

yogsloth, glancing over his shoulder, began a lecture: “You know Leondard, could you please stop spitting, it really is quite disgustooOOOMPH!”

His words were cut short by Leonard03 jumping up and grabbing him firmly by the lapels*: “LEONARD! It’s LEONARD! If you call me that ONE. MORE. TIME.” Each syllable was punctuated with a firm, neck-rattling shake. “It’s not like this is even the first game! It’s been like, three games now! What the hell is wrong with your middle finger? What the hell is… ah… is…. Oh, er. Ah. Ha ha. Ah.”

Realizing that not only was the entire party staring at him in stunned horror, but that the wizard’s eyes had changed to an odd shade of smoldering red, Leonard, his face flushed with embarrassment, slowly released the wizard’s robe, gave him a few pats, picked off some invisible lint, and stammered a bit… “Sorry. Er, heh. Ahhhh, yes. Sorry. Quite sorry.”

yogsloth stared at him for a few moments, mentally flipping through his spellbook, searching for the appropriate transformation spell... but then seemed to change his mind.

Still glaring, he turned slowly, and began marching back down the corridor.

“This way,” he grunted. “Mind the spiderwebs.”

_____


*Yes, a wizard’s robe with lapels. It’s all the fashion in Paris.


_____

OFFICIAL “CREEPING INTO DAY THREE” VOTE COUNT


Not voting – HijacK, Lifthrasil, JMich, CSPVG, Bookwyrm627, Leonard03, QuadrAlien, dedoporno, bler144

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch

Closest to lynch is everybody and nobody

There is not yet a deadline.
_____

Well that was boring. I stumble across any surprising scum slips or something. Only thing I'm wondering about is this.
Wouldn't that mean you wanted to lynch dedo now?

In my experience, the "normal" restrictions are that a doctor can't protect himself, a doctor can't protect the same target two nights in a row (to prevent Follow The Cop), the doctor's protection only extends to the first kill attempt in a given night (so single doctor won't protect someone targeted by both NK and Vig in one night), and the doctor has no shot limit (while vig usually only has 1 or 2 shots). The particulars are up to the mod, however, and we've seen several of these rules broken in the last few games.

Dedo has already explained my understanding of his restriction last game.

Sorry for not having said anything in awhile. It's been a bit hectic here today.

In anyway, I thought it would be best to just post the notes I made while reading the newest posts. Here are said notes:

644 - Bler - "I was very tempted to say say 'I didn't have one visit last night' just to make people's heads explode, but it would have been technically true."

So are you claiming that you were visited more than once or not at all?

642 - HijacK - Speculates he was roleblocked by a blow dart shot to the neck. In 493, Leonard speculate something along the lines of a thrown dart, but did not seem sure. I don't know if I think that this is means something more, or if both of them were not given flavour on how exactly the dart was 'delivered'.

653 - Bler - Jokingly talks about using a night action. Not sure if he's trying to draw the mafia's attention (Perhaps draw a NK?) or draw a town investigation. Whatever it is, I don't really like it.

Also speculates as to why there was a roleblocker at all. The roleblocker, from what I've seen, is a fairly common role. I don't know if asking why we had a roleblocker is all that helpful.

Lastly, that was a really pointless vote on Lift. Why vote and then unvote so soon?

669 - bler - Ah, so you've answered my above question (I think).

Also, I think your argument for killing Lifth is terrible.

672 - bler (yes, again) - Pre-post edit: All of this was much better explained by Bookwyrm627, but I'm leaving it in anyway.

To my knowledge, #1 would be very unusual indeed. Doctors, from what little I've read on Mafiascum's wiki, are usually only prevented from protecting the same person on consecutive nights, and cannot protect themselves.

As for #2, I don't quite see how not being able to protect a person more than once is not a drawback.

Fair enough. I'll retract the gambit. Though if we're down to working just on hunch mine would still be Lift, fwiw. However, it's risky to leave a vote hanging out there in the off chance he's town & the game is down to 5-4.

I was very tempted to claim I had "not one visit" just to watch the reaction, but it occurred to me that could result in a partial claim from several directions rather than a full claim, and as noted, I think a partial claim is the worst info option available.

So I'll go ahead and confirm I had >1 visit (indeed, not one). Apparently I generated a lot of interest. I won't go into detail, at least yet, but it tells me a few things:

1) despite all the flips, town still has multiple power roles.
2) there was some slight variance with how one particular visit was described to me vs. how it had been shared on D2, but at least for the moment I tend to think that's flavor rather than meaningful. The basic mechanics were still correct.

We can also observe that there was only one NK again last night. Which would seem to mean one of three things:
a) There is only one scum team
b) There are 2 scum teams but Flub just happened to hit an NK action each night. That would make Leon and Hijack both killers. Is that likely? No, and barely plausible imo but technically possible.
c) the setup was 9v3v1 and the 1 has some non-SK win condition or is laying low til the end. Probably not productive to speculate further until there's more info.
d) I'm probably missing something.

So, we know town has at least 3 power roles, and can probably intuit they have at least 2 and as many as 4-5 more. So what does a scum team look like in the face of that?

For me the likely answer leads me back to Lift, but rather than telling you what I think I'll just leave it out as food for thought. At least a few of you have town power roles and probably suspect there's at least 1 other besides your own.

1) Perhaps I know something you don't know, and from that perspective your comment is amusing.
2) The question was why does town have a role blocker given the flips plus the near-certainty town still has multiple roles in play. If there was just a doctor, a cop, a roleblocker, and a vig, then sure, not all that surprising.

I don't think it really matters, it seems clear to me that we were both roleblocked by the same person, flub.

Lots of activity I see. I've been reading a bit, but I'm not caught up entirely. For the "dart" issue at hand, flavor may not be of copy & paste style. It could be that yog personalizes flavor for different situations.

Alright. Off I go to a meeting.

I don't mind being called out. If you'll note I retracted my vote (653) before really being "called out on it." Why? Because it occurred to me that, as noted, if I was wrong about you and there are 4 scum it ends the game.

For all intents and purposes my vote is still on you.

I anticipated the 'because you are scum yourself" argument, so thanks for providing it. I can't give a full answer without giving a full answer, but let's just say I had enough visits that, unless scum was making a hell of a bluff, it's hard to fathom that everyone who visited me was scum.

Plus I, of course, am town myself. Though certainly you can't know that, you don't really have to. Say, for the sake of argument, I had 3 visits. What are the scenarios:

If I am scum, all 3 are town, or at least non-scum. A-ha! You say, just as I thought!
However that neglects to consider the opposite consideration, which is that if I am town and get visits, I know I am town, plus at least 1 if and likely more, of the 3. Plus I may or may not have my own role. In any case, I don't think it's a stretch at all to assume quite comfortably town have at least 2 roles still in play. Plus a doctor if you're telling true.

You are certainly smart enough to be aware of that possibility, thus your choice to go on the attack is either a gambit to get more info on how many visits I had and who (and yet you claim to be opposed to a larger reveal which this would move us toward) or just a desperate move to move attention away from yourself.

Interesting, let's see if I get what you're saying. Basically if you are visited by a scum, then it means you are town. Since you were visited by so many people they can't all have been town, therefore some of them were scum, therefore you are town. That about right?

That wasn't quite what I was going for. I wasn't using it as a logic test to prove I was town (I don't think I can logically prove that), only to prove that Lift's uni-dimensional approach was false.

The point was that, were I scum, it's likely 2 if not 3 of the others visiting me would be town. I was not role-blocked. Thus 2+ town power roles still in play.

Conversely, if I'm town, it's highly unlikely all 3 visitors are scum. Would you agree?

Perhaps one is scum and one is neutral, though I think that unlikely, it is at least within the bounds of possibility. But of the four of us, myself plus at least one of the visitors (and probably 2) would be town.

Again, I can't really give more detail without a full claim of myself and those likely involved, but suffice it to say i'm 99.99% confident there are 2+ town power roles still in play.

Lift tried to spin that in a fashion which is not true at all, ergo I must be scum. But either scenario A) or B) is possible. In one of them I am town, and one of them I'm not. While I am town, you shouldn't even need to believe that definitively to understand why Lift's attack is wrong and a bit suspicious of a spin.

Ah, ok. I think I will agree with you on this count. However that is not his only reason.

Sure, but what is the _substance_ of his other points. He rather non-specifically points at "stuff CSP said" most of which have been addressed elsewhere, then hearkens back to prior arguments about differences in strategy. As I said to him yesterday, most of what he's calling me out for this game are entirely consistent with how I infuriated JMich last game (when I was town, btw) - if anything I've reined it in quite a bit.

The difference is that JMich never tried to spin it as scummy, whereas Lift has teased differences in opinion as scummy every time, even back to the start. I mean, go back and look at his posts 56 (where he sees me "breadcrumbing my stats" when I wasn't) and 88 (where he raises a flag because I used "TLDR - J/k").

Possible this is just a difference in style akin to the way others butt heads? Yes, it's possible this is just two town bickering.

Though I find it quite notable that in that same stage where many raised a flag about CSP asking for "scummy" lists so early (and then more reads as we moved toward dusk), Lift provided one (77). Of his 3 names, they were Kryp (not in game), JMich because he's inscrutable, and myself because he's never played with me.

Imaginary teasing of stats? Scummy! Calling the "new" player scummy or asking for lists of "most scummy" in the first 100 posts? Eh, no problem!

He calls me out for pushing for a claim yesterday, and neglects to mention that he was firmly camped on Trent's wagon all along and, other than some late hesitance from dedo, IIRC I was the only one pushing for alternatives - not just a mass claim (which could have disproven or potentially supported the existing wagon), but also a no lynch. If I were scum, why would I risk the attention much less risk town actually following through?

I did it as town, because I was uncomfortable with putting that many eggs in one basket. I'm not even going to say I told you so. We needed to take the option of no lynch or claiming seriously rather than take ourselves to the brink.

Lift's credibility hinges not-insignificantly on the existence of a doctor (aside from Trent) and yet he's made it impossible, if not scummy, to try and determine if there even IS a doctor. That is very convenient for him. Either he's town who's just a bulldog who can't let go, or he's scum who's been setting up a long game and now trying to push it to fruition.



["If you think that's convenient, wait 'til you see my new kitchen!" - Lana]