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LiquidOxygen80: I don't feel that way at all. Yeah, I'll give points on the AI. It's terribad, I even quasi disliked the monster growth changes, but the game itself is massively underrated and I feel it was unjustly maligned simply for being different. People forget a lot of the more interesting changes in hero mechanics, changes to how they level, the class combinations you could come up with for them, etc. Yeah, in big maps your heroes could become massively OP over time, and it could cause some balance issues, but I feel like 4 in some ways has aged better than some of the classic HoMM titles. (Oh, and the OST was one of my faves.)
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MadalinStroe: What do you mean? You don't agree with my statement that Heroes 4 is more of a tactics game, than a strategy game, like the previous ones? Because I already mentioned that I love the campaigns, definitively the best in any Heroes games. I also loved the heroes and their skills, especially because they could become OP, but still, as a tactics game.
I think I actually quoted the wrong person, disregard, Mad. My apologies!
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LiquidOxygen80: I think I actually quoted the wrong person, disregard, Mad. My apologies!
It happens, don't worry about it. Thanks for letting me know.
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Linko90: Diablo 3. Seemed to miss everything that Blizzard North made Diablo about
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LiquidOxygen80: This is why I chose PoE and Grim Dawn over it any day. Diablo 3 was a cartoon masquerading as a Diablo game.
Personally, I thought D3 was WoW masquerading as Diablo. I'm also quite surprised Bliz even had a demo of D3 because from what I played of the D3 demo, nothing from the previous 2 games were preserved, fans of the previous game weren't likely to like it.

For atmosphere, D1 totally nailed it. The music, the gritty art design, monster design and the fact you could still die on the second level if you weren't careful. Just my opinion but I think the atmosphere alone was what made the demand for D2. I know people will disagree with me but I thought D2 lost some atmosphere that made D1 special, I actually didn't like D2 when it first came out. Eventually after a ton of patching, D2 won me over and while I still don't like the loss of atmosphere, I think the character progression system makes up for it. D3 reatains none of these things. If Bliz called the game "Fisher Price My First ARPG" instead of Diablo 3, I would have been more forgiving over it.

I also like Grim Dawn, and I can't wait for the Forgotten Gods expansion due this year (November I think it was)
Post edited June 22, 2018 by IwubCheeze
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LiquidOxygen80: This is why I chose PoE and Grim Dawn over it any day. Diablo 3 was a cartoon masquerading as a Diablo game.
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IwubCheeze: Personally, I thought D3 was WoW masquerading as Diablo. I'm also quite surprised Bliz even had a demo of D3 because from what I played of the D3 demo, nothing from the previous 2 games were preserved, fans of the previous game weren't likely to like it.

For atmosphere, D1 totally nailed it. The music, the gritty art design, monster design and the fact you could still die on the second level if you weren't careful. Just my opinion but I think the atmosphere alone was what made the demand for D2. I know people will disagree with me but I thought D2 lost some atmosphere that made D1 special, I actually didn't like D2 when it first came out. Eventually after a ton of patching, D2 won me over and while I still don't like the loss of atmosphere, I think the character progression system makes up for it. D3 reatains none of these things. If Bliz called the game "Fisher Price My First ARPG" instead of Diablo 3, I would have been more forgiving over it.

I also like Grim Dawn, and I can't wait for the Forgotten Gods expansion due this year (November I think it was)
I should probably expand on why I said that: I kinda feel like WoW IS cartoony, which is why I've never been a fan of it, nor even played it. I played the shit out of Warcraft 1 & 2, but they somehow lost me around Warcraft 3. No judgements on that game, as I've never played it.

I would actually have to say that D1 is probably my favorite Diablo game as well, even for some of its linearity, they absolutely nailed the gloom, the atmosphere, the aesthetics and the designs. I mean, who can forget their first time stumbling into the Butcher's lair and hearing him growl "Ah, fresh meat" at you?

Diablo 2 is one of those games I loved when it came out, and am finding that I don't like as much as I did back then. Somehow they got a little too stuck up their own asses when it came to some of the dungeon designs, drawing them out until they're more grind than entertaining, whereas a game like Grim Dawn or Path of Exile has this atmosphere in every dungeon that makes you want to continue to explore, with lots of interesting scenery, or horrific nightmarish scenery, as the case may be. (Especially in the later acts of Path. Holy shit.) D2's skill trees and character progression also have not held up over the years, when in competition with those two games, and D3's is a laughable offense.

But yeah, I do like Grim Dawn's grit and desperado style areas, mixed with magic, steampunk and a pretty cool style. I plan on picking it back up once PoE's new Incursion season is over. :)
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sanscript: The Witcher 1 & 2:
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DedIago: just curious - have you played W3 before these two?
W1 and 2 are quite different, and while the second is definitely a big disappointment, first is one of my favourite games of all time.

also, another entry for GTA 4 here. big, beautiful, technologically advanced, bland, tedious and simply boring game. engine is really cool, though game is fun to watch, but not to play.
No, I didn't. I kinda like W1 overall and understand it's a classic but I just preferred to watch others play it just to get the story, same with W2. However, W2 is just a mess, everything from the language and potion/magic system to the chaotic, clunky UI.

I 've now watched Gophers playthrough on the series + up to 32 on W3 and even before having played W3 myself, it seems to be "perfect" in respect to the other two. In fact, I just got it on the 60% sale :D

To bad the bad weather & lightning(tm) zapped my gaming pc through the adsl cable --> ethernet cable...
I expected a lot from Thimbleweed Park. Damn did the creeping kickstarterism and the lazy reveal / last act let me down.
There are a few that come to mind off the top of my head. It was mostly due to seeing really good reviews for each of these games and then it coming short of my expectations, sometimes quickly.

Turok 2 - I absolutely despise this game. The first Turok was great, and I expected a similarly enjoyable experience. What I got was tedious gameplay and awful, confusing level design, combined with the worst map in a game I have ever seen (even worse than Daggerfall's, but I love that game despite and sometimes because of its flaws). Somehow I brought myself to finish the game, but I was already hating it about 2/3 of my playthrough in, after leaning back and forth between liking it and disliking it.

F.E.A.R. - At first it was interesting, but even then I just couldn't bring myself to play more than a half-hour each session. It has great atmosphere, but I quickly lost interest in the gameplay. It felt rather repetitive and the story just wasn't intriguing.

S.T.A.L.K.E.R. - Somewhat similar situation to F.E.A.R., although the setting was much more interesting here. But the gameplay got very frustrating not too far in when you have to go underground. Completely unfair how quick AI reactions at that point are for some reason, and I was just losing interest in the story at that point anyway.

Doom - Before I get mobbed, let me preface this by saying that it is a good game. It is a very important game in terms of gaming history. But I think the gameplay is a bit overrated. It is sometimes a chore to find keycards, which is made more problematic considering the game is supposed to be fast-paced. And the controls are clunky, even when I finally figured out how to overcome what was preventing me from rebinding the keys. Yes, I know you can mod it, but that isn't an excuse and I don't want to fumble around with making that work. Also, it is very frustrating how easily you can be hit by things above you when you have trouble aiming at them. Even worse is when things are way below you where you absolutely can't see them and you can still get hit anyway! It is a good game overall, but I think it gets too much of a pass. I feel similarly about Doom II and Final Doom.
Post edited June 29, 2018 by Raderofthelostark
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Raderofthelostark: Doom - Before I get mobbed, let me preface this by saying that it is a good game. It is a very important game in terms of gaming history. But I think the gameplay is a bit overrated. It is sometimes a chore to find keycards, which is made more problematic considering the game is supposed to be fast-paced. And the controls are clunky, even when I finally figured out how to overcome what was preventing me from rebinding the keys. Yes, I know you can mod it, but that isn't an excuse and I don't want to fumble around with making that work. Also, it is very frustrating how easily you can be hit by things above you when you have trouble aiming at them. Even worse is when things are way below you where you absolutely can't see them and you can still get hit anyway! It is a good game overall, but I think it gets too much of a pass. I feel similarly about Doom II and Final Doom.
Did you play it when it came out in 1993?

And yes my eye twitched a little when I read that.
Zwei. My personal hell. Excessive grind, a hybrid interface between M&K and gamepad, enemies can attack you offscreen, dull AND unchanging dungeons, unfair bosses...this thing is old school, in the most horrible way.

To say the least, I will only buy the sequel on deep discount if I ever get over the pain that Zwei caused me. :|
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Raderofthelostark: There are a few that come to mind off the top of my head. It was mostly due to seeing really good reviews for each of these games and then it coming short of my expectations, sometimes quickly.

Turok 2 - I absolutely despise this game. The first Turok was great, and I expected a similarly enjoyable experience. What I got was tedious gameplay and awful, confusing level design, combined with the worst map in a game I have ever seen (even worse than Daggerfall's, but I love that game despite and sometimes because of its flaws). Somehow I brought myself to finish the game, but I was already hating it about 2/3 of my playthrough in, after leaning back and forth between liking it and disliking it.

F.E.A.R. - At first it was interesting, but even then I just couldn't bring myself to play more than a half-hour each session. It has great atmosphere, but I quickly lost interest in the gameplay. It felt rather repetitive and the story just wasn't intriguing.

S.T.A.L.K.E.R. - Somewhat similar situation to F.E.A.R., although the setting was much more interesting here. But the gameplay got very frustrating not too far in when you have to go underground. Completely unfair how quick AI reactions at that point are for some reason, and I was just losing interest in the story at that point anyway.

Doom - Before I get mobbed, let me preface this by saying that it is a good game. It is a very important game in terms of gaming history. But I think the gameplay is a bit overrated. It is sometimes a chore to find keycards, which is made more problematic considering the game is supposed to be fast-paced. And the controls are clunky, even when I finally figured out how to overcome what was preventing me from rebinding the keys. Yes, I know you can mod it, but that isn't an excuse and I don't want to fumble around with making that work. Also, it is very frustrating how easily you can be hit by things above you when you have trouble aiming at them. Even worse is when things are way below you where you absolutely can't see them and you can still get hit anyway! It is a good game overall, but I think it gets too much of a pass. I feel similarly about Doom II and Final Doom.
Play doom using gzdoom, it is very customisable and covers the few bits you seem to be annoyed at other than finding keycards.
And yes, the hell knights are on their way round to you now.
1.Witcher 2 - I had a lot of fun with Witcher 1 and was quite eager to start play in Witcher 2. After three attempts I gave up. Fighting system was so utterly unclear that despite finishing "tutorial" I couldn't end successfully first "normal" fight.

2.Eador: Imperium - despite negative reputation of Eador: Master of the Broken World, I personally consider it as quite enjoyable "remaster" of Eador: Genesis. But Imperium? Few new things are barely enjoyable, by some reason they've removed multiplayer completely, it doesn't seem to repair anything "serious"... Seriously, it should be rather free update than separate game.

3.Sonic Mania - after this game I've came to conclusion that I'm not enjoying classic Sonic gameplay style anymore. At least in the same degree as previously. Sure, visually it's amazing, but other than that - I've got enough soulless characters, who have nothing to say, silly plot (why it's even presented at all? ), revisiting again the same zones (new zones are in minority, what is more every next is inferior to the previous one). And I had an impression that levels are longer (comparing to Sonic 1-3), but more boring. Not to mention about awful Denuvo and lazy PC port (why we can't have both split-screen and online multiplayer?) Seriously, I had more fun with fan-made games recently.
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Raderofthelostark: Doom - Before I get mobbed
I played Doom (especially 1, but also 2) a lot in the 90s, finishing it many many times and playing lots of user made levels or total conversions (WADs). It was the reason I missed so many other big classics back then, because I was just playing Doom all the time. I absolutely loved the game and felt it was a technical marvel and a groundbreaking action game, single-handedly making PC the very best gaming system in the whole wide world, from here to eternity, and beyond!

However, nowadays I consider it only to have historical value, a bit like Ultima 1. Yes it has very clunky controls compared to modern FPS games, its game-engine is very limiting and even laughable (like the up/down thing you mentioned) etc. If I want a somewhat similar but more modern experience, I'd rather play e.g. the Serious Sam games.

So yeah, I can fully understand why Doom 1-2 wouldn't wow modern gamers. It should be put into a museum to show kids what their grand-grand-parents played when they were kids, and then the kids can feel sorry for their ancestors that they had to put up with such games.
Prey II for not coming out

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jfHCZAK7p-s

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ctAEu0ypMMU
Deus Ex Mankind Divided and Thief 4. I never actually bought either of them (due to DRM) but after testing them for a couple of hours on a friend's PC I was upgrading, the sheer dumbing down, "casualization" plus other BS like DX:MD's "one time use" micro-transactions or "tiered pre-orders" (plus "mixed" ratings on Steam speaks for itself) or Thief 4 trying too hard to be "Batman Creed: Emo Garrett Edition" with "get 4 headshots!" objectives, was enough to tell me that both Deus Ex and Thief franchises started with "1" and ended with "3" and that Square Enix are best left screwing up their own Japanese stuff than trying to further over-sequel golden-era Looking Glass Studios IP which peaked right from the start.

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Raderofthelostark: Doom - Before I get mobbed, let me preface this by saying that it is a good game. It is a very important game in terms of gaming history. But I think the gameplay is a bit overrated. It is sometimes a chore to find keycards, which is made more problematic considering the game is supposed to be fast-paced. And the controls are clunky, even when I finally figured out how to overcome what was preventing me from rebinding the keys. Yes, I know you can mod it, but that isn't an excuse and I don't want to fumble around with making that work. Also, it is very frustrating how easily you can be hit by things above you when you have trouble aiming at them. Even worse is when things are way below you where you absolutely can't see them and you can still get hit anyway!
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timppu: Yes it has very clunky controls compared to modern FPS games, its game-engine is very limiting and even laughable (like the up/down thing you mentioned) etc.
As nightcraw1er.488 said, anyone still trying to play Doom via original DOS engine is seriously doing it wrong. I also can't play "original engine" Doom / Heretic anymore with clunky "pre-mouselook" controls but GZDoom adding mouselook (removes look up/down problem you mentioned) alone plus removing the 35fps cap makes the game 10,000x more enjoyable whilst staying true to the original without dumbing anything down. "Installing the mod" is literally as simple as dropping WAD files (DOOM.WAD, DOOM2.WAD, PLUTONIA.WAD, TNT.WAD) into the folder and running gzdoom.exe. That's it. Everything (key bindings, widescreen resolutions, etc) are fully customizable in-game.
Post edited June 29, 2018 by AB2012