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amok: ... You know, I don't know a single way of updating a game on gOg, without having to first log into your account. ...
Me too and the reason is that there is none. However, at the same time, this is not an issue for me because I cannot remember a single instance where I really needed an update from GOG. That's what buying half a year after release buys you. On GOG, you just buy the current version DRM free (updates are not included and just a courtesy or to be seen as DRM). So far, it doesn't seem to bother anyone.

In the good old days, one could actually download patches from the website of the developers for free without any restriction. Everyone could do it. That were the days...
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amok: there are many ways of editing the registry, including doing it manually. same with installing dependency software.

in Steam, for example, each game folder contains a file which tells which registry keys needs adding, and which software needs installing (if any, not all games needs registry keys). which is more than can be said of gOg games... in many ways, the DRM free games on Steam are more future proof because they have this list, and are not wrapped in a second layer (the installers) which may or may not break at some point in time, making the game 'worthless'.

what you are talking about is convenience and easy of use - an automated process. I have not seen a definition of DRM free yet which says - "it has to be convenient and easy to use to be DRM free".
It doesn't have to be convent to be DRM free. I learned that the hard way when I tried Linux. It does however need to be convenient to be usable. A lot of people myself included are not going to bother with something if I have to jump through hoops to get things to work.
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amok: ...in Steam, for example, each game folder contains a file which tells which registry keys needs adding, and which software needs installing (if any, not all games needs registry keys). which is more than can be said of gOg games... in many ways, the DRM free games on Steam are more future proof because they have this list, and are not wrapped in a second layer (the installers) which may or may not break at some point in time, making the game 'worthless'.

what you are talking about is convenience and easy of use - an automated process. I have not seen a definition of DRM free yet which says - "it has to be convenient and easy to use to be DRM free".
You seriously would expect the normal user to manually edit the windows registry with some values found in some folders and other stuff in order to install a video game they bought?

I don't think this falls into the convenience category. A game that hasn't an executable bundled that does this kind of stuff is not delivered fit for purpose, I would say.

If however, there would be a stripped down version of the Steam client that doesn't phone home but does all the install steps described in these files from downloaded and backup-ed data, I would be happy to call that DRM free, because it would be for all purposes equivalent to the GOG standalone installers. But there isn't.

It's not really about convenience if you ask for an installer.
Post edited December 10, 2018 by Trilarion
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amok: there are many ways of editing the registry, including doing it manually. same with installing dependency software.

in Steam, for example, each game folder contains a file which tells which registry keys needs adding, and which software needs installing (if any, not all games needs registry keys). which is more than can be said of gOg games... in many ways, the DRM free games on Steam are more future proof because they have this list, and are not wrapped in a second layer (the installers) which may or may not break at some point in time, making the game 'worthless'.

what you are talking about is convenience and easy of use - an automated process. I have not seen a definition of DRM free yet which says - "it has to be convenient and easy to use to be DRM free".
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Magmarock: It doesn't have to be convent to be DRM free. I learned that the hard way when I tried Linux. It does however need to be convenient to be usable. A lot of people myself included are not going to bother with something if I have to jump through hoops to get things to work.
but it does not makes it DRM.
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Magmarock: But can you install the software without the client like with GOG offline stand alone installers. You need installers because they're good for the registry.
99.9% of games you get don't need to be installed, that's just they way it is... I'm one of those people who doesn't even like installers and always run things portable to keep my machines as lean as possible... once I "installed" Ashen (a glorified term for "the Epic Games Launcher copied the game to my hard drive"... I didn't even choose to add a shortcut on the desktop, so it was a literal COPY form their server to my hard drive), I was (and still am) able to simply copy the games folder and put it on any one of my machines (without a traditional install) and the game runs like a dream on every machine
Post edited December 10, 2018 by Mawthra
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amok: ...in Steam, for example, each game folder contains a file which tells which registry keys needs adding, and which software needs installing (if any, not all games needs registry keys). which is more than can be said of gOg games... in many ways, the DRM free games on Steam are more future proof because they have this list, and are not wrapped in a second layer (the installers) which may or may not break at some point in time, making the game 'worthless'.

what you are talking about is convenience and easy of use - an automated process. I have not seen a definition of DRM free yet which says - "it has to be convenient and easy to use to be DRM free".
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Trilarion: You seriously would expect the normal user to manually edit the windows registry with some values found in some folders and other stuff in order to install a video game they bought?

I don't think this falls into the convenience category. A game that hasn't an executable bundled that does this kind of stuff is not delivered fit for purpose, I would say.

If however, there would be a stripped down version of the Steam client that doesn't phone home but does all the install steps described in these files from downloaded and backup-ed data, I would be happy to call that DRM free, because it would be for all purposes equivalent to the GOG standalone installers. But there isn't.

It's not really about convenience if you ask for an installer.
yes, it is different issues completely. DRM still means Digital Rights Management - that's all. automation, convenience and so on is not part of it at all, nor was it in your own definition of DRM earlier (in fact... that's what many complain Steam does - automate too much...)
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Magmarock: But can you install the software without the client like with GOG offline stand alone installers. You need installers because they're good for the registry.
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Mawthra: 99.9% of games you get don't need to be installed, that's just they way it is... I'm one of those people who doesn't even like installers and always run things portable to keep my machines as lean as possible... once I installed Ashen, I was able to copy the games folder and put it on any one of my machines (without a traditional install) and the game runs like a dream on every machine
I'm pretty sure they do, some games might work okay with portable instillation but for full driver support eventually you'll need to install something.
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Magmarock: It doesn't have to be convent to be DRM free. I learned that the hard way when I tried Linux. It does however need to be convenient to be usable. A lot of people myself included are not going to bother with something if I have to jump through hoops to get things to work.
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amok: but it does not makes it DRM.
I didn't say it did.
Post edited December 10, 2018 by Magmarock
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Mawthra: 99.9% of games you get don't need to be installed, that's just they way it is... I'm one of those people who doesn't even like installers and always run things portable to keep my machines as lean as possible... once I installed Ashen, I was able to copy the games folder and put it on any one of my machines (without a traditional install) and the game runs like a dream on every machine
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Magmarock: I'm pretty sure they do, some games might work okay with portable instillation but for full driver support eventually you'll need to install something.
Which are only ever per-requisites (DirectX, etc.) and those are either already on your system (unless it's a fresh install) or 9 times out of 10 any per-requisistes come in the game folder itself... Steam and GOG both do it
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amok: but it does not makes it DRM.
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Magmarock: I didn't say it did.
then I don't know what you were trying to say... sorry.
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amok: ...DRM still means Digital Rights Management - that's all. automation, convenience and so on is not part of it at all, nor was it in your own definition of DRM earlier ...
When I mentioned installation I really meant something that a normal user can do, for example launching something. But as I said already, I would regard the absence of that not as DRM but as a product deficiency. All products with or without DRM must be convenient enough so that every customer can use them.

If you insist that this must include editing registries manually, I would say that this would be a bit hilarious.
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amok: ...DRM still means Digital Rights Management - that's all. automation, convenience and so on is not part of it at all, nor was it in your own definition of DRM earlier ...
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Trilarion: When I mentioned installation I really meant something that a normal user can do, for example launching something. But as I said already, I would regard the absence of that not as DRM but as a product deficiency. All products with or without DRM must be convenient enough so that every customer can use them.

If you insist that this must include editing registries manually, I would say that this would be a bit hilarious.
and I would say it is a slippery slope, and it makes it very hard to define what is or is not DRM based personal preference, and we end up with "DRM is everything I do not like" - such as manually editing registry files. some do not mind regedit (I don't... it is easy enough), so... then where are we?

again - non of this was in your own definition of DRM - do you want to change it?
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amok: ...such as manually editing registry files. some do not mind regedit (I don't... it is easy enough) ...
You may mind. You could just try to install some Steam games this way and report back if it worked and how much fun it was.

It may be somewhat of a grey zone to define a working product but not much I guess. I think I'm able to recognize an installation method when I see it.
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amok: ...such as manually editing registry files. some do not mind regedit (I don't... it is easy enough) ...
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Trilarion: You may mind. You could just try to install some Steam games this way and report back if it worked and how much fun it was.

It may be somewhat of a grey zone to define a working product but not much I guess. I think I'm able to recognize an installation method when I see it.
Ashen was a literal "right click, copy, paste" and it will run on any machine without doing anything else... and you can also do that for every GOG game you install... in the root of a GOG install for, say, Darksiders III (see attached)... the majority of files are 100% not necessary for the game to run, they're just the install remnants from GOG... the ones highlighted (in the screenshot) are ALL you need to run the game... copy those to any machine and you'll be on your way without even knowing what a registry is... I've done this to more games than I can count over the years, never had a single issue... I prefer to archive my games by getting rid of the GOG install remnants... that's leaving you with the game itself... don't have to worry about some day the installers you downloaded weren't updated for a future version of Windows, etc. (wich GOG updates their installers for games all the time)
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amok: ...such as manually editing registry files. some do not mind regedit (I don't... it is easy enough) ...
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Trilarion: You may mind. You could just try to install some Steam games this way and report back if it worked and how much fun it was.
[...]
I have done it couple of times... it was no trouble at all, quite straight forward... anyway, most DRM free games on steam do not need any regediting at all, just copy-paste the folder. I zip them for storage, personally.
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amok: I have done it couple of times... it was no trouble at all, quite straight forward... anyway, most DRM free games on steam do not need any regediting at all, just copy-paste the folder. I zip them for storage, personally.
Yup, I do the same