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Lucumo: Uh-oh, there is a giant difference between an all-purpose browser (which you can choose) created by an unrelated third party and a client forced onto you by the store's owner.
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Mawthra: Like I said... it's a mental/technical difference... still need a "piece of software" to log in and download your games... you can try and beat around the bush, but that's just a fact
As you do with GOG.
As precice as you can say a lootbox is gambling as soon as you can't produce another one in the game world without paying real life money (i.e. "is it a consumable?"), the question of "is it DRM" boils down to:
Are offline installers available and after installation does the game work without internet or does only need another server created by said offline installers without the need of a foreign infrastructure?
If no: DRM.
The problem with GOG is it does not know what DRM is with all this dongled shit on their site and at the same blurbing it everywhere. Basically, does it have a kill switch?

Oh and on topic: They probably just forgot to implement DRM yet or don't bother with people zipping up their shit and hope it will run on another machine. As does Steam. Again, you can't be sure if it runs on another machine without INSTALLERS. It may be, or it ain't, either way that time you waste trying that out is already on the path of cracking it and those fat companies don't give a shit about that.. because they can't. They rather spend their time to sell kids one more loot box.

See as I brought the topic around to the beginning with my closing statement? That's some school education gone with the program shit right there. Peace.
Post edited December 08, 2018 by AlienMind
What I hate about Epic Store is if I change my Login on Fortnite, it changes my login on the Epic storefront, meaning I may buy games on the wrong account. I wish that could be separated.
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real.geizterfahr: 20 years later...

Kid: "Dad, I found that awesome classic game on one of your old hard drives!"
Dad: "Which one?"
Kid: "Ashen."
Dad: "Nah, you better don't touch it. It's a DRM'd piece of crap. Got it from Epic Store 20 years ago. One of my biggest mistakes in life."
Kid: "DRM'd? How? I just installed it without any activation or log in. It's running fine."
Dad: "Listen, you arrogant prick! You have no idea! DRM will ruin this world! If I say it is DRM'd, then it is!"
He's right. The kid is arrogant in believing just when it didn't log in, nobody has. It also doesn't know what the difference between installation and just copying the game files is. It also did commit piracy by enjoying the product it didn't pay for and let his legal guardian be the culprit of it.
I'd give it away to some chinese warez group where it can do what it enjoys for a living. Selling stolen shit on the street corners while being taught a lesson about priorities in life.
Post edited December 08, 2018 by AlienMind
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paladin181: What I hate about Epic Store is if I change my Login on Fortnite, it changes my login on the Epic storefront, meaning I may buy games on the wrong account. I wish that could be separated.
That sounds like such an obvious problem, that they would have already addressed it if if were true. Surely that's not how it works. But then again I've never played Fortnite, and I've never used the Epic Store, so I'm just making an observation.
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real.geizterfahr: 20 years later...

Kid: "Dad, I found that awesome classic game on one of your old hard drives!"
Dad: "Which one?"
Kid: "Ashen."
Dad: "Nah, you better don't touch it. It's a DRM'd piece of crap. Got it from Epic Store 20 years ago. One of my biggest mistakes in life."
Kid: "DRM'd? How? I just installed it without any activation or log in. It's running fine."
Dad: "Listen, you arrogant prick! You have no idea! DRM will ruin this world! If I say it is DRM'd, then it is!"
But do we know it's that way for sure? Can you install the game without the client? As in, downloading an offline installer like on GOG that will work in any computer without any other software or connection to a server? I can't find anything in the Epic store website (searching for "DRM" in the FAQ section gets literally no results).
I'm not agreeing with the OP's premise that it has no DRM.

Does it provide an offline .exe installer/backup copy? No right? Then it's DRM'ed.
Post edited December 08, 2018 by Ancient-Red-Dragon
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AB2012: a lot more detail is needed across a wider spread of games before declaring the store DRM-Free.
The Epic store is obviously not DRM-free. If it were, then they'd definitely be advertising that as a selling point.

And likewise, they'd be repelling a lot of DRM-insistent devs from coming to their service, which is the opposite of their goal.
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Ancient-Red-Dragon: I'm not agreeing with the OP's premise that it has no DRM.

Does it provide an offline .exe installer/backup copy? No right? Then it's DRM'ed.
GOG's offline installers are not doing anything magical, they're just creating a directory, copying the game files to it, adding the uninstall entries, shortcuts, etc.... most games (Unity, Unreal, etc.) keep all the game files in their own directory including any prerequisites (DirectX, etc.)... so once a game is "installed", yes... you can just copy the game folder and put it anywhere you want and run it anywhere you want whenever you want... I know because I've done it more times than I can count over the years... it's a perfectly valid method for archiving a game... look at something like the Humble Store... all the DRM-free games you get are either zip packages or rar, etc... no installers... me, personally, I would prefer if GOG would give vanilla offline archives instead of branded installers... the ads during install, the start menu entries, all that... to me, that is bloat, if all I want to do is play the game without a client... but yah, everyone has their own preferences on stuff like that

In this specific case, yes... I downloaded the game through the Epic Games Launcher (which I already had installed because I use the Unreal Engine daily for work) and I no longer need the Epic Games Launcher to play the game... ever
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AB2012: a lot more detail is needed across a wider spread of games before declaring the store DRM-Free.
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Ancient-Red-Dragon: The Epic store is obviously not DRM-free. If it were, then they'd definitely be advertising that as a selling point.

And likewise, they'd be repelling a lot of DRM-insistent devs from coming to their service, which is the opposite of their goal.
Epic has publicly said DRM is up to the game devs/publishers to implement... they offer no DRM solution of their own in the client or by any other means... hence Ashen having none
Post edited December 08, 2018 by Mawthra
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Ancient-Red-Dragon: I'm not agreeing with the OP's premise that it has no DRM.

Does it provide an offline .exe installer/backup copy? No right? Then it's DRM'ed.
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Mawthra: GOG's offline installers are not doing anything magical, they're just creating a directory, copying the game files to it, adding the uninstall entries, shortcuts, etc.... most games (Unity, Unreal, etc.) keep all the game files in their own directory including any prerequisites (DirectX, etc.)... so once a game is "installed", yes... you can just copy the game folder and put it anywhere you want and run it anywhere you want whenever you want... I know because I've done it more times than I can count over the years... it's a perfectly valid method for archiving a game... look at something like the Humble Store... all the DRM-free games you get are either zip packages or rar, etc... no installers... me, personally, I would prefer if GOG would give vanilla offline archives instead of branded installers... the ads during install, the start menu entries, all that... to me, that is bloat, if all I want to do is play the game without a client... but yah, everyone has their own preferences on stuff like that

In this specific case, yes... I downloaded the game through the Epic Games Launcher (which I already had installed because I use the Unreal Engine daily for work) and I no longer need the Epic Games Launcher to play the game... ever
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Ancient-Red-Dragon: The Epic store is obviously not DRM-free. If it were, then they'd definitely be advertising that as a selling point.

And likewise, they'd be repelling a lot of DRM-insistent devs from coming to their service, which is the opposite of their goal.
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Mawthra: Epic has publicly said DRM is up to the game devs/publishers to implement... they offer no DRM solution of their own in the client or by any other means... hence Ashen having none
So it's just like Humble Bundle, download a folder and no need to install? In that case, I hope they clearly specify what games require additional DRM and which ones are DRM-free.
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ConsulCaesar: So it's just like Humble Bundle, download a folder and no need to install? In that case, I hope they clearly specify what games require additional DRM and which ones are DRM-free.
No, I didn't say the Epic Games Store works that way... I was comparing backing up one of your own DRM-free games (regardless of where it came from) to what you get from the Humble Store
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ConsulCaesar: So it's just like Humble Bundle, download a folder and no need to install? In that case, I hope they clearly specify what games require additional DRM and which ones are DRM-free.
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Mawthra: No, I didn't say the Epic Games Store works that way... I was comparing backing up one of your own DRM-free games (regardless of where it came from) to what you get from the Humble Store
I think I understand now... You do need the client and identification to install it the first time, but after that, copying the folder is the same as how it works in Humble Bundle, right? Both for Steam and this new Epic store? And this method of backing up depends on whether the developer included more DRM or not.
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ConsulCaesar: Is the launcher necessary to install the game?

I wouldn't mind having to install a software to download the games, it's inconvenient but not too different from logging in a website. Needing the launcher to install it, on the other hand, is a deal breaker.
Launcher is necessary to install the game, but not necessary after that... I've added the game to Steam so I can play on the TV through the Steam Link... that game launches without even having the Epic Games Launcher installed on the machine (I have a dedicated box for streaming with only Steam on it)

And the online co-op works as well... all without the Epic Games Launcher running or even installed
Post edited December 08, 2018 by Mawthra
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Mawthra: Launcher is necessary to install the game,
That would be DRM then. So Ashen isn't DRM free.
Thanks for the heads up OP, I bought the game because of this!

Fwiw, I installed Epic Games Launcher in a disposable Virtual Machine, so it doesn't touch my system and I can just download + back up the DRM Free game files themselves.
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ConsulCaesar: Is the launcher necessary to install the game?

I wouldn't mind having to install a software to download the games, it's inconvenient but not too different from logging in a website. Needing the launcher to install it, on the other hand, is a deal breaker.
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Mawthra: Launcher is necessary to install the game.
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Thanks for clarifying that. I do not want to delve into the whats DRM or not but (for me personally) that is the small distinction which makes me not wanting to get games there for the same reasons I refuse most other digital stores or physical copies tied to these.