It seems that you're using an outdated browser. Some things may not work as they should (or don't work at all).
We suggest you upgrade newer and better browser like: Chrome, Firefox, Internet Explorer or Opera

×
"China" returned 25 posts
Clear search criteria
low rated
Message to GOG, people still haven't forgotten the whole Devotion debacle where you blamed " gamers " for removal of the game from the store to cater to China, and still up to this day you still to release a statement, letting it slide like nothing at all happened :) in hopes people will get over it ! We are still waiting for an answer from you guys !
Post edited August 14, 2021 by lixicus
low rated
Companies goes where the money is and that's how it is thus statements are useless, neither Steam, Epic or any mid to larger scale company (meaning when you open up your company for public investing you are pretty much expected to go where the profit is) would risk being shut off from selling their games in china.
Post edited August 14, 2021 by ChrisG_
low rated
avatar
ChrisG_: Companies goes where the money is and that's how it is thus statements are useless, neither Steam, Epic or any mid to larger scale company (meaning when you open up your company for public investing you are pretty much expected to go where the profit is) would risk being shut off from selling their games in china.
You seem to have forgotten that Chinese citizens have V-P-N-S and often get around their country's fire-wall to visit various sites, and that they could do so to buy from GOG as well.....even if that country blocked GOG.
low rated
It had jack crap to do with "catering" to China. It had everything to do with being a business and doing what they have to do. Given the fact that China has a very large gaming market, they couldn't risk losing an entire market over one game that a handful of people might have played.

The way people responded to the situation just proves my point about modern gamers being fickle, whiny crybabies who are literally LOOKING for reasons to complain.
low rated
avatar
JakobFel: It had jack crap to do with "catering" to China. It had everything to do with being a business and doing what they have to do.
The second sentence in that quotation contradicts, undermines, and disproves the first.

And the rest of that post is basically saying that one should abandon all of his/her ethics & morals for financial reasons.

Of course, in reality, no they should not.

Contrary to what the rest of the post which I quoted from says, the only problem with the GOG customers' response to the Devotion debacle was that they, for the most part, let GOG get away with letting it blow over, which is exactly what GOG hoped would happen.

And that sets the very dire precedent for all future debacles, which GOG is likewise also probably going to ignore, since the Devotion incident taught them that most customers will let them get away with letting it blow over, and hence they have no reason to be transparent about what is really going on.

Finally, that post is conflating two separate issues into one, even though they cannot & should not be conflated:

Issue 1: GOG banning Devotion.
Issue 2: GOG lying about the reason for why they banned Devotion, and refusing to be transparent and upfront and honest about the real reason why they did so.
low rated
avatar
JakobFel: The way people responded to the situation just proves my point about modern gamers being fickle, whiny crybabies who are literally LOOKING for reasons to complain.
avatar
GamezRanker: Or maybe some have a legitimate complaint, but you are so enamored by GOG that you refuse to see it & call people whiners to maintain your cognitive dissonance?
It's not a legitimate complaint, though. People act as if GOG "catered" to China or removed the game to spite certain groups of people which simply isn't true. Anyone who knows even a little bit about business knows that you don't risk an entire market to satisfy a handful of customers. That's just not how it works. Yeah, sure, it sucks that they had to remove it but if ANYONE is to blame for this, it's the ridiculous CCP which absolutely needs to fall.

Also, it's not the fanboys downvoting, it's bots and that's an issue GOG definitely needs to fix.
avatar
JakobFel: It had jack crap to do with "catering" to China. It had everything to do with being a business and doing what they have to do.
avatar
Ancient-Red-Dragon: The second sentence in that quotation contradicts, undermines, and disproves the first.

And the rest of that post is basically saying that one should abandon all of his/her ethics & morals for financial reasons.

Of course, in reality, no they should not.

Contrary to what the rest of the post which I quoted from says, the only problem with the GOG customers' response to the Devotion debacle was that they, for the most part, let GOG get away with letting it blow over, which is exactly what GOG hoped would happen.

And that sets the very dire precedent for all future debacles, which GOG is likewise also probably going to ignore, since the Devotion incident taught them that most customers will let them get away with letting it blow over, and hence they have no reason to be transparent about what is really going on.

Finally, that post is conflating two separate issues into one, even though they cannot & should not be conflated:

Issue 1: GOG banning Devotion.
Issue 2: GOG lying about the reason for why they banned Devotion, and refusing to be transparent and upfront and honest about the real reason why they did so.
It has nothing to do with morals. GOG removed the game to preserve a market of theirs. The morals only come into play when you consider the sheer tyranny of the CCP. As I said, blame the CCP, not GOG because it's not GOG's fault that the CCP are a bunch of tyrannical, oppressive fools.
Post edited August 15, 2021 by JakobFel
low rated
avatar
JakobFel: It had jack crap to do with "catering" to China. It had everything to do with being a business and doing what they have to do. Given the fact that China has a very large gaming market, they couldn't risk losing an entire market over one game that a handful of people might have played.

The way people responded to the situation just proves my point about modern gamers being fickle, whiny crybabies who are literally LOOKING for reasons to complain.
A very shortsighted response, not only would CDPR be delusional if they think they can gain any significant marketshare in a totalitarian ruled country, which I don't think they're betting on, CDPR probably isn't that dumb, it's appeasement is just very hypocritical.

Also gog storing their money in taxhavens like Cyprus so the bigshots don't need to contribute to the economy which gave them these opportunities in the first place makes me think they're not worth anyones hard earned cash.
low rated
avatar
JakobFel: It had jack crap to do with "catering" to China. It had everything to do with being a business and doing what they have to do. Given the fact that China has a very large gaming market, they couldn't risk losing an entire market over one game that a handful of people might have played.

The way people responded to the situation just proves my point about modern gamers being fickle, whiny crybabies who are literally LOOKING for reasons to complain.
avatar
Strijkbout: A very shortsighted response, not only would CDPR be delusional if they think they can gain any significant marketshare in a totalitarian ruled country, which I don't think they're betting on, CDPR probably isn't that dumb, it's appeasement is just very hypocritical.

Also gog storing their money in taxhavens like Cyprus so the bigshots don't need to contribute to the economy which gave them these opportunities in the first place makes me think they're not worth anyones hard earned cash.
Money is money, that's business. You'd be hard pressed to find ANY business that would willingly forsake an entire market to appease a handful of customers who probably still buy from them anyways.
low rated
avatar
JakobFel: It's not a legitimate complaint, though. People act as if GOG "catered" to China or removed the game to spite certain groups of people which simply isn't true.
Did they decide not to sell a game to keep making money from the Chinese market? Yes? Then they catered to said country.
(The bit about not doing it to spite anyone seems to be spot on, though)

avatar
JakobFel: Anyone who knows even a little bit about business knows that you don't risk an entire market to satisfy a handful of customers.
As I said above, Chinese customers could still shop on GOG via V-P-N.....GOG could've sold the game and still had access to those customers and their money.

avatar
JakobFel: That's just not how it works. Yeah, sure, it sucks that they had to remove it but if ANYONE is to blame for this, it's the ridiculous CCP which absolutely needs to fall.
Saying "that's how it is/that's how it works", is a cop out.....if no one tries to challenge said system(i.e. companies like GOG not bowing to said interests) then it will never change.

Look at the creators of South Park....they gave the CCP the middle finger and are doing great.....that is what GOG should be emulating, not the same old "bow to the CCP" stance many companies (gaming and otherwise) assume.

avatar
JakobFel: Also, it's not the fanboys downvoting, it's bots and that's an issue GOG definitely needs to fix.
I meant that the some of the raters(who control the bots) seem to be GOG fanboys to a high extent, and as such they will often low rate anything that gets too critical of GOG.
Post edited August 15, 2021 by GamezRanker
low rated
avatar
JakobFel: It's not a legitimate complaint, though. People act as if GOG "catered" to China or removed the game to spite certain groups of people which simply isn't true.
avatar
GamezRanker: Did they decide not to sell a game to keep making money from the Chinese market? Yes? Then they catered to said country.
(The bit about not doing it to spite anyone seems to be spot on, though)

avatar
JakobFel: Anyone who knows even a little bit about business knows that you don't risk an entire market to satisfy a handful of customers.
avatar
GamezRanker: As I said above, Chinese customers could still shop on GOG via V-P-N.....GOG could've sold the game and still had access to those customer's and their money.

avatar
JakobFel: That's just not how it works. Yeah, sure, it sucks that they had to remove it but if ANYONE is to blame for this, it's the ridiculous CCP which absolutely needs to fall.
avatar
GamezRanker: Saying "that's how it is/that's how it works", is a cop out.....if no one tries to challenge said system(i.e. companies like GOG not bowing to said interests) then it will never change.

Look at the creators of South Park....they gave the CCP the middle finger and are doing great.....that is what GOG should be emulating, not the same old "bow to the CCP" stance many companies (gaming and otherwise) assume.

avatar
JakobFel: Also, it's not the fanboys downvoting, it's bots and that's an issue GOG definitely needs to fix.
avatar
GamezRanker: I meant that the raters(who control the bots) are GOG fanboys to a high extent, and as such they will often low rate anything that gets too critical of GOG.
That's not catering so much as it is them doing what they had to do as a business. They can't just up and abandon a sizable market for a game that has considerably tiny demand.

It has nothing to do with ANYTHING that we can change. That's how business works. You can't change that, no matter how annoying it may be. Businesses have to make money, that's the reality of the situation, and risking an entire market for a game that a handful of people would actually play is just an outright stupid business decision. The CCP may be tyrants, it may suck that they pressured to keep the game off of the market, but that's just how it is and it can't be changed. If you're REALLY interested in stopping the CCP's tyranny, quit buying consumer products and make sure that everything you purchase was made in the US (or your home country, wherever possible, for those who don't live here). That's the only way anything will ever change in regards to the CCP's tyranny. They thrive only because the modern consumer is so obsessed with convenience and penny pinching that they're willing to buy things made in China, which simply funds them to conduct tyranny and oppression even further.

I disagree that the bots are controlled by fanboys. Blatant proof of that is how my statement is downvoted as well, despite the fact that I'm speaking in support of GOG on this particular situation.
Post edited August 15, 2021 by JakobFel
low rated
avatar
ChrisG_: Companies goes where the money is and that's how it is thus statements are useless, neither Steam, Epic or any mid to larger scale company (meaning when you open up your company for public investing you are pretty much expected to go where the profit is) would risk being shut off from selling their games in china.
avatar
GamezRanker: You seem to have forgotten that Chinese citizens have V-P-N-S and often get around their country's fire-wall to visit various sites, and that they could do so to buy from GOG as well.....even if that country blocked GOG.
You really don't get it ! this is not only about GOG and while everyone should use VPN in this day and age there is many who don't and as the Chinese government acts on a whim they could cut of access to VPNs at any time like they are now cracking down on their own corporations who are losing revenue by the day.

The more significant point however is CDPRs access to selling their games in China to all platforms as they are the very same company, if GOG got blocked so would CDPR and the desicion wouldn't be done by GOG alone.
Post edited August 15, 2021 by ChrisG_
low rated
avatar
lixicus: Message to GOG, people still haven't forgotten the whole Devotion debacle where you blamed " gamers " for removal of the game from the store to cater to China, and still up to this day you still to release a statement, letting it slide like nothing at all happened :) in hopes people will get over it ! We are still waiting for an answer from you guys !
Good post and thanks for the reminder. I will take the opportunity to point out that there is still an ongoing boycott of GOG.com, which has been running since the start of the year and has been signed by almost 100 users. The boycott is over Devotion, as well as other recent signs of GOG/CDPR's increasing apathy towards DRM-free.

To those that are saying that GOG had no choice but to bow to Winnie for business reasons: NO. There is always a choice. GOG does not need China's money to be successful. This is about corporate greed, pure and simple. I consider it highly unethical for a business like GOG to impose censorship on gamers around the globe in exchange for access to one particular market. And I am not going to spend my money with a business that is acting unethically.

If you don't like the idea of GOG bowing to China and imposing censorship on you and the rest of the free world, the right thing to do is boycott, so we can show them that it is in fact this decision of their that is a bad business decision.
low rated
avatar
ChrisG_: You really don't get it !
Oh(as Counselor Swann says in Doom 3), I get it....I get that some of us are seemingly more willing to excuse GOG's catering to certain markets if it benefits them personally(by GOG sticking around/getting more games/etc), and some are less willing to excuse such actions.

Btw, while you're here you might want to watch the linked clip in post 20 as well.....it contains some lessons I think many on the GOG forums could do well to learn from.

-

avatar
Time4Tea: If you don't like the idea of GOG bowing to China and imposing censorship on you and the rest of the free world, the right thing to do is boycott, so we can show them that it is in fact this decision of their that is a bad business decision.
Most of this post I agree with wholeheartedly, well said.

As for this bit: imo the best thing to do is actually to convince others to buy elsewhere(zoom-platform, for example), and to (more importantly) convince up and coming new game devs to think about signing on more with said sites like zoom over GOG.
Post edited August 16, 2021 by GamezRanker
low rated
avatar
ChrisG_: You really don't get it !
avatar
GamezRanker: Oh(as Counselor Swann says in Doom 3), I get it....I get that some of us are seemingly more willing to excuse GOG's catering to certain markets if it benefits them personally(by GOG sticking around/getting more games/etc), and some are less willing to excuse such actions.

Btw, while you're here you might want to watch the linked clip in post 20 as well.....it contains some lessons I think many on the GOG forums could do well to learn from.
Funny that, i have never made an excuse for it but i would not fool myself preaching about ethics either when i know that pretty much every larger business would sell their soul to do business in China if they aren't even doing it yet.

As i said it's about one thing and one thing only: money. There is also a reason why Steam, Epic, Origin, Uplay etc don't sell Devotion and i don't see Zoom selling it either for all the speculation that they would, they only avoided the mistake of announcing it in the first place but then i don't see them ever making games that would ever sell in China so it's not like they have much to lose anyway.

I don't like the chinese government like everyone else but i will not going around telling other people what to do and if people don't like a company bending to certain markets which is understanding in this case then please also don't buy goods manufactured in China, apply your ethics to everything China.
low rated
avatar
ChrisG_: I don't like the chinese government like everyone else but i will not going around telling other people what to do and if people don't like a company bending to certain markets which is understanding in this case then please also don't buy goods manufactured in China, apply your ethics to everything China.
Wait, are you saying people shouldn't (or can't) criticize things unless they live up to a certain level of moral standards?
I think Officer Nick Angel says it best in this bit from Hot Fuzz

And not that it's anyone's business, but: I already do such things
(minus where I cannot due to budget, on needed items like food and clothing)

Also let's be honest.....companies like GOG/etc would make more of an impact if they stood up to the CCP than a few consumers here and there. And until they do, it's likely little will change.

And if GOG wants good PR so much, then here's a thought: maybe some would respect/like/buy from them more if they stood up for such principles and not just chased the almighty dollar to the same degree as every other big company.
Post edited August 16, 2021 by GamezRanker