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General discussionForum Mafia #52 - SHODAN's children(1308 posts)(1308 posts)
(1308 posts)
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This is my favourite topic
Posted October 29, 2017
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Leonard03: Actually, wagons I'd vote for are: adaliabooks, mchack, HSL, and trentonlf if need be.
Why trentonlf but not flub?
Posted October 29, 2017
Just so everyone is clear......

I have no problem with being lynched this Day. However I will reveal as town and will only clear up the obvious fact I wasn't the convert of Night One. I think this Day's lynch is as good as any, but can we piss or git off the pot this time??
Posted October 29, 2017
It seems I'm also coming down with something. Felt fine yesterday, but woke up this morning feeling bad and keep coughing. Just woke up from a nap, but still not feeling the best.

I see not much has really changed, all that's going on is everything that went on Day 1, finger pointing and accusation after accusation with not end in sight. I'm with flub on this, talking in circles all day gets us nowhere. Let's get serious and put our votes out there so we can proceed with a lynch.

I'll try and stay around as long as I can this weekend, but can't guarantee I will not be sleeping a lot.
Posted October 29, 2017
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Bookwyrm627: [...] Therefore, I'm inclined to believe he was either vanilla town, or he was scum. [...]
I don't believe he was scum Yesterday, and frankly, after his promise, his and my initial comments on it, and you partaking in the conversation that followed, I don't quite follow why you're (still?) inclined to consider the case that he was.



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dedoporno: Adalia (I think, can't go back to search for it now) was saying that trent might be acting differently to push away a potential conversion attempt. My point was that, if he has to be pushing something away it has to be the lynch first and only then worry about the conversion. Acting as he might have been converted by team A to scare off team B might work out conversion-wise but when it comes to lynch it's a whole lot worse of a strategy. [...]
I see. I don't think that what I see is him doing that, though; do you?



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adaliabooks: Interesting.
What's really interesting is this coming from Leonard03 Today:

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Leonard03: Dang dang dang.
No-lynch is bad. Stupid of me to forget how close we were to deadline. European evening != Canadian evening. [...]
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Leonard03: [...] Man, this is a real mess. We really shouldn't have no-lynched yesterday, [...]
Vote: mchack
This should have happened day 1, we need to see your flip to help unravel this game.
^This from the (same?) Leonard03 who waltzed into the game thread Yesterday with post #644, and placed the second vote on me (which got my wagon going) when mchack was sitting at L-1 since post #606.
Even though he allegedly was willing to vote him (post #337), with no indication he had a change of mind later one.

Today he's über-irked with the D1 No-Lynch, and oh so regretful that mchack wasn't lynched Yesterday.

And after his play so far, I can't decide if he actually wants to lynch mchack (he quite subtly laid the ground a bit for it to appear so earlier Today), or is banking on it not happening Today either.
Posted October 29, 2017
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Bookwyrm627: [...] Therefore, I'm inclined to believe he was either vanilla town, or he was scum. [...]
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HypersomniacLive: I don't believe he was scum Yesterday, and frankly, after his promise, his and my initial comments on it,
What comments? I don't remember you commenting on it.
Posted October 29, 2017
Just to be clear....

I'm not sick.
Posted October 29, 2017
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HypersomniacLive: What's really interesting is this coming from Leonard03 Today:

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Leonard03: Dang dang dang.
No-lynch is bad. Stupid of me to forget how close we were to deadline. European evening != Canadian evening. [...]
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HypersomniacLive:
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Leonard03: [...] Man, this is a real mess. We really shouldn't have no-lynched yesterday, [...]
Vote: mchack
This should have happened day 1, we need to see your flip to help unravel this game.
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HypersomniacLive: ^This from the (same?) Leonard03 who waltzed into the game thread Yesterday with post #644, and placed the second vote on me (which got my wagon going) when mchack was sitting at L-1 since post #606.
Even though he allegedly was willing to vote him (post #337), with no indication he had a change of mind later one.

Today he's über-irked with the D1 No-Lynch, and oh so regretful that mchack wasn't lynched Yesterday.

And after his play so far, I can't decide if he actually wants to lynch mchack (he quite subtly laid the ground a bit for it to appear so earlier Today), or is banking on it not happening Today either.
Yes it is... I didn't spot that.

So is he scum (but not mchack's buddy) and was told in the night he should have voted mchack or needs to push mchack today? Or scum (and mchack's buddy) doing a little distancing before a wagon really gets going and a vote on his buddy would be dangerous...

Or just town being inconsistent...


I think I mostly agree with flub and trent at the moment, no new information has come to light, no new arguments seem to be being made and I'm all for doing what we should have done yesterday, which is lynching me or mchack, though I'd happily add Leonard to that pile too.
Posted October 29, 2017
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adaliabooks: ~ ping ~
Did you miss my question in post #799, or are you not willing to answer? If the latter, why not?



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mchack: they weren't closer than me in being lynched, [...]
That's actually not true.


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mchack: [...] why waste a nk on me when you can lynch me (only need 6 votes now - oh but hunter is dead now who was one of the six yesterday... :D [...]
You make it sound as if a consensus of six votes is a picnic, when you know it isn't, and with two scum teams in this particular setup, scum have no way of being certain they won't suffer loses during the Night; you yourself point out that Hunter65536 is dead Today. I don't quite see how a NK on you would be a waste, if you're a brother that scum want dead.

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mchack: [...] I know that I don't need to die specifically for scum to win, but I'm sure it helps if my read was at least partly correct, [...]
If you were, and still are, town with even a partial correct read on scum, how does your flip help them, when it confirms you as town, which in turn will make others take a closer look at your reads? If you have a partially correct read on scum, why is it not in the (best) interest of said scum to keep you around, at least for the time being, hence not actively pursue your lynch or NK?


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mchack: can't. lift said so. it's in the setup. I just go on scummy behaviour. and if someone flips scum, I don't care as long as he's dead. [...]
And yet your working theory (allegedly?) is that not only is lynching an original scum easier, it will also eliminate one of the scum teams completely...


I can't help but notice that you've resorted to pretending that some questions and comments addressed to you are in invisible digital ink, yet address silly things like ZFR's joke about primary school maths in a serious tone.


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mchack: [...] scum would not want to start killing off other scum until there is alot less town around. [...]
Except that "alot less town" in this setup may well be (at least partially) the result of a lot more of one of the scum teams. Does this help the other scum team in achieving their win condition?


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mchack: [...] So I assume it makes perfect sense for scum to rather not risk adalia or hsl flipping scum, to not make lynching for example me [...] less probable today and if correct (yes this is still assuming adalia, hsl, you are scum ) would rather induce hitting scum today (which again is not something scum wants) [...]
Not sure I follow this from start to finish; can you rephrase/elaborate?


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mchack: [...] 1. not sure. but assume scum in: HSL or Bookwyrm or Dedo or Krypsyn or even You (By helping each other in discussion and telling everyone they will not be voting each other. Which is rather easy to pick up really. I've picked up on it, and that means it's obvious) [...]
So you set up a trap for your scum-suspects, and they all fell into it?


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mchack: [...] whereas hunter was rather lurky and had way less support to choose targets to lynch and in the same vein you and others are going after leonard (for what being not as scummy as others? lurky?) the lynch of hunter could have easily happened. [...]
Trying to sort out what you're saying here.

- Where did Hunter65536 choose any lynch targets?
- I assume the Hunter65536's lynch is meant as the D2 one, yes? If so, why could it easily have happened? Why would he be a prime candidate to begin with?



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ZFR: What comments? I don't remember you commenting on it.
Post #627.
Posted October 29, 2017
Just to be clear.

Unvote: Bookwyrm 627
Posted October 29, 2017
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HypersomniacLive: I see. I don't think that what I see is him doing that, though; do you?
I don't. That was the point I was trying to make - that it doesn't make sense. I guess I didn't do a great job conveying it.

Not sure if you already commented on this, only remember some of the other players' comments - do you think mchack surviving at L-1 bears enough weight to take it into consideration?
Posted October 29, 2017
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Leonard03: Actually, wagons I'd vote for are: adaliabooks, mchack, HSL, and trentonlf if need be.
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dedoporno: Why trentonlf but not flub?
Because trent is acting more different (differenter?) than flub is.

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Leonard03: Dang dang dang.
No-lynch is bad. Stupid of me to forget how close we were to deadline. European evening != Canadian evening. [...]
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HypersomniacLive:
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Leonard03: [...] Man, this is a real mess. We really shouldn't have no-lynched yesterday, [...]
Vote: mchack
This should have happened day 1, we need to see your flip to help unravel this game.
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HypersomniacLive: ^This from the (same?) Leonard03 who waltzed into the game thread Yesterday with post #644, and placed the second vote on me (which got my wagon going) when mchack was sitting at L-1 since post #606.
Even though he allegedly was willing to vote him (post #337), with no indication he had a change of mind later one.

Today he's über-irked with the D1 No-Lynch, and oh so regretful that mchack wasn't lynched Yesterday.

And after his play so far, I can't decide if he actually wants to lynch mchack (he quite subtly laid the ground a bit for it to appear so earlier Today), or is banking on it not happening Today either.
Yes, when I voted you we weren't yet at an imminent no-lynch. If I had been online before Lift closed the day, I would have hammered. There hasn't been any "change" I would have hammered mchack yesterday if I had been online. Today mchack is not the person I most want to lynch, but the person I think is most likely if day 1 is anything to go by.

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adaliabooks: Or just town being inconsistent...
See above. Not being inconsistent.
Posted October 29, 2017
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mchack: [...] why waste a nk on me when you can lynch me (only need 6 votes now - oh but hunter is dead now who was one of the six yesterday... :D [...]
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HypersomniacLive: You make it sound as if a consensus of six votes is a picnic, when you know it isn't, and with two scum teams in this particular setup, scum have no way of being certain they won't suffer loses during the Night; you yourself point out that Hunter65536 is dead Today. I don't quite see how a NK on you would be a waste, if you're a brother that scum want dead.
Brother? bother!
and I also said yesterday, I assumed to be the nk. I wasn't because apparently scum thought lynching me was easy enough and would rather try and convert more players N1.

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mchack: [...] I know that I don't need to die specifically for scum to win, but I'm sure it helps if my read was at least partly correct, [...]
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HypersomniacLive: If you were, and still are, town with even a partial correct read on scum, how does your flip help them, when it confirms you as town, which in turn will make others take a closer look at your reads? If you have a partially correct read on scum, why is it not in the (best) interest of said scum to keep you around, at least for the time being, hence not actively pursue your lynch or NK?
it doesn't help them. but it hurts town to lynch me.

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mchack: can't. lift said so. it's in the setup. I just go on scummy behaviour. and if someone flips scum, I don't care as long as he's dead. [...]
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HypersomniacLive: And yet your working theory (allegedly?) is that not only is lynching an original scum easier, it will also eliminate one of the scum teams completely...
I don't care which team scum belongs to as long as we lynch scum today (we should have yesterday)

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mchack: [...] scum would not want to start killing off other scum until there is alot less town around. [...]
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HypersomniacLive: Except that "alot less town" in this setup may well be (at least partially) the result of a lot more of one of the scum teams. Does this help the other scum team in achieving their win condition?
lol, thanks for the alot pictures (again). my english isn't really as good as I sometimes think it is.
yes, converting is bad for town. Lynching vanillas also is bad for town. The only good option town has is lynching (original) scum thus having a chance of deleting one conversion from the game (there is (at least) two scum with conversion ability around)

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mchack: [...] So I assume it makes perfect sense for scum to rather not risk adalia or hsl flipping scum, to not make lynching for example me [...] less probable today and if correct (yes this is still assuming adalia, hsl, you are scum ) would rather induce hitting scum today (which again is not something scum wants) [...]
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HypersomniacLive: Not sure I follow this from start to finish; can you rephrase/elaborate?
Assume adalia flipped scum this morning (from failed conversion) Are the chances to lynch me today better or worse than they are now?

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mchack: [...] 1. not sure. but assume scum in: HSL or Bookwyrm or Dedo or Krypsyn or even You (By helping each other in discussion and telling everyone they will not be voting each other. Which is rather easy to pick up really. I've picked up on it, and that means it's obvious) [...]
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HypersomniacLive: So you set up a trap for your scum-suspects, and they all fell into it?
I don't understand. of course I don't know who scum is. But I have a good chance of getting it right. I go for the ones I believe act scummy and try to avoid those that I'm sure are town. No setting traps involved.

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mchack: [...] whereas hunter was rather lurky and had way less support to choose targets to lynch and in the same vein you and others are going after leonard (for what being not as scummy as others? lurky?) the lynch of hunter could have easily happened. [...]
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HypersomniacLive: Trying to sort out what you're saying here.

- Where did Hunter65536 choose any lynch targets?
- I assume the Hunter65536's lynch is meant as the D2 one, yes? If so, why could it easily have happened? Why would he be a prime candidate to begin with?
I don't know how the day would have progressed if adalia (or you) was flipping scum this morning. This is where this discussion came from because people state that neither of you could have been Hunters scum buddies, because then the most suspected one would go for the conversion shot. I merely voiced that I don't think this is true and presented reasons why it might be otherwise. As for Hunter. No-one is safe from lynch in this setup.
Posted October 29, 2017
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Krypsyn: [...] I find it interesting that most of mchack's arguments are about himself living or dying. [...] Mchack... his arguments seem to go in circles and often seem to make unexplained logic leaps and assumptions. I am not sure it is indicative of alignment, but it comes off as a bit scummy to me (did Day 1 as well). [...]
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HypersomniacLive: They do, don't they?

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mchack: or anyone else may be converted. [...]
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HypersomniacLive: Which could well have been you, if you were town D1 as you claimed, couldn't it? So, why should anyone take your word that you're town Today, and follow your suggestion?
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dedoporno: He was scummy yesterday, but that doesn't always mean he is scum. In this case I meant his actual alignment - I find it a bit hard to believe why he wouldn't be finished off. Maybe the hammer scum didn't want to rush things and the deadline came faster than they hoped while they were keeping up appearances or they were simply not online to do it. No sure way of telling (maybe if going back to take a look at time stamps, no idea yet).
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dedoporno: OK, but being that close to the deadline is kind of a free pass for hammering for scum for the sake of having a lynch, no? For the others one could argue there was still time and a "rushed" hammer might have attracted too much attention.
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HypersomniacLive: I can't help but notice that you've resorted to pretending that some questions and comments addressed to you are in invisible digital ink, yet address silly things like ZFR's joke about primary school maths in a serious tone.
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dedoporno: Not sure if you already commented on this, only remember some of the other players' comments - do you think mchack surviving at L-1 bears enough weight to take it into consideration?
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adaliabooks: Unvote Leonard03
Vote mchack

Sorry, I just can't not vote him. As Krypsyn pointed out all of his arguments revolve around him, as if he is the only important point in the game. You'd think if he was so important and scum were so desperate to remove him they would have NK'd or converted him...
And despite his stalling, mud slinging and attempts to save his own skin at the end of the day causing us to No Lynch, meaning we now have two players we can no longer trust and no more info then we did yesterday, he can't possibly see why anyone could think he is scum..
first off: Adalia, stop frigging putting that no-lynch on me. It was just as much on you and dedo and bookwyrm and krypsyn and so on. each of you had plenty of time going over to hsls wagon if you wanted a flip so much but you didn't! Each of you chose no-lynch over HSLs flip.

secondly: To all those questions/comments there is one thing to consider and I think it is time to be open about it now (since I won't go another full day at L-1 avoiding to say it. Wouldn't last that long today anyway because most likely it's only 7 town left now)

Look into the game setup and read what's been written there right under hacker:

"You will do everything in your power to protect the humans aboard this ship and purge it of any infections, technological or biological."

and then think about what I have been doing the whole of D1. Don't tell me that wasn't an obvious soft-claim. But I said I wouldn't claim because I thought town (8 frigging town) should be enough to lynch one man doing nothing but scummy things all day long without me claiming (yes I know I tend to tunnel, but really? no-one but me thinks it scummy what he does??) so I didn't. Also I didn't want to help scum in knowing 1 mason and maybe guessing the rest. I swore myself I wouldn't and damn town if they got what they deserved (My flip). Now it's D2 and still people are going after flubs or me or trent and won't even think of considering to lynch adalia or hsl or bookwyrm. I cannot and I will not do it another day.

This is my claim. I am mason. My pool of suspects is considerably smaller than that of a vanilla townie. Sure I can't know who scum is. But I know a few who aren't scum (thus having a higher chance of being right even if random, yet my scumlist is not at all random) and I cannot be converted. (I will not say who the other masons are under any circumstances, but I also will not sit here and let myself be lynched without saying anything today, as I would have yesterday.)
So if in fact you want to lynch me (again) today then go ahead, but don't say afterwards I haven't told you it's wrong and as town you do not want to do this.

Or can finally someone help me lynch adalia for effs sake and kill some scum.

unvote
vote adalia

P.s. or hsl or bookwyrm. My vote won't go anywhere else but these 3 today unless scum slips up (by false counter-claiming mason for instance)
Posted October 29, 2017
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mchack: Or can finally someone help me lynch adalia for effs sake and kill some scum.

unvote
vote adalia

P.s. or hsl or bookwyrm. My vote won't go anywhere else but these 3 today unless scum slips up (by false counter-claiming mason for instance)
Unvote mchack

I don't actually buy it, but unless someone counter claims and says your not a mason then you are off the table.

I of course considered the possibility yesterday, but the fact that no one else agreed with you and you didn't appear to be being coached in any way suggested it was a very slim chance.
I still believe you are scum and this is a last ditch attempt to save your ass, but let's see how this plays out.


@Hyper
I kind of ignored the question because dedo had covered it a bit but when I'm on my laptop later I'll answer it properly.
Posted October 29, 2017
Development!

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mchack: I am mason.
OK, I don't know about soft-claiming this and if soft-claiming it makes sense, but unless there is a counter-claim that's good enough for me. If that is really true I apologize for reading you wrong the whole game.

As for Wyrm vs HSL I have to think about it. I was town-reading HSL in the context of you being scum (well, not exactly town-reading but "not-your-buddy" reading which was making him less of a scum possibility), Wyrm was mostly in the middle.

Now I kind of don't want to ask you about anyone else, though, for obvious reasons. I still think adalia was and probably still is town.
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This is my favourite topic
Community
General discussionForum Mafia #52 - SHODAN's children(1308 posts)(1308 posts)
(1308 posts)