mkay.

It's something alright. Scumhunting? I dunno about that.

Um, I don't know how to be more specific.

That suuuuucks.

Even when he is the arsonist.

No I AM the dungeon master. Mwa ha ha haaaaaa.

Don't remember.

FINE! Mr. Grumpy Pants. I'm sacrificing my precious, precious sleep time for you.
...
That took me NINETEEN minutes. Anyways, you're going to need to explain a bit about what goes on around his play. I took a poke through the later part of the thread and saw dedo self hammer... because game was a forgone conclusion? Also, I'm not entirely sure what you're trying to say here, as from what I see flub had a similar play last game where he was town first day, then converted, then lynched day 2. Am I missing something?

Yes, this is odd and unusual.

He could be that Leonard0ε guy who is extremely evil and should be shot.

Oh, was this an actual serious question? I guess it was, since that's the kind HSL asks.
*sigh* give me a minute
Well, it's certainly not game 30 cause I didn't play in that game.
...
You know what. Maybe I made it up. Can't find the game I'm thinking of anywhere. Or perhaps you know of the game I'm trying to remember?

Also, who are you thinking you'd vote for right now?

Oh, and I think you asked about the part in the town PM where it includes "Dying for your team". I was kind of under the impression that was included in most town PMs? I seem to not be able to access my old chat messages so can't confirm.

I couldn't find that post.





Sorry.

You know, you said anyone who didn't vote for you today was not town. There's only 4 scum in this game, and at the end 5 people will not be voting for you so it's demonstrably no true. Also, if you're so suicidal, then why don't you vote for yourself?

It was worth of Leonard0ε... that's not a good thing. :P

Leonard03 asked me to do things.. let me show you on the doll...

*bump*

Remind me not to ask you for a favour when you are tipsy :P

... except if you don't vote for yourself that makes 5. Oooooh I get it.

the quote you used there is from my adalia read.
the part you put in quotes I never said. we've been over this. this is what I actually said when you asked me how I meant the a) part in my read of you (which doesn't say you were doing any actual painting on the matter yourself only helped adialia doing it):
--
noone asked you to go into a discussion about power roles back then.
You see how I take care to always emphasize it is hypothetical, so there's no confusion? Yet it's still something you wrote, that helped form my opinion about your alignment, because the example you gave is really astounding (you fishing, 2-3 masons dead both times)

How would I know your feelings? only you know them. So tell me, do you feel me to be the scummiest player in this game? You are voting me after all. Noone did scummier things than me?

yes, that's fine. no-one does. I won't be all over you for some "self-preservation instict kicking in to not stick out"(#209), no worries.

Of course you should ask questions, please do. I trying to encourage more ""relevant" questions (what you started to do in the more recent posts is a lot closer to what I have in mind) and more often rather than scolding someone for not giving scum ideas or taking away from the moment with moot points, or boobs. Actually, on a second thought I don't mind the boobs that much but more of the latest.


Funny :)


Sorry, you are correct, I quoted adalia's list first item rather than mine. Mine says:

I am voting you because I find you the scummiest. That implies that even if others did something scummy I don't find it as scummier as your play. I guess you are trying to turn things around me not condemning adalia for trying to actively push for a Townie lynch - I don't agree with some of his logic on how the scum would play things out with the claims or hunting down the vanillas being a good thing but I see how removing the "known" vanilla is a sensible action when there aren't better options on the table.

Or maybe he thinks you're the prettiest princess, jeez kids with the nihilism these days.

Anyway here's' the people I would vote for being the prettiest princess:
krypsyn - Haphazard voting and bit quiet for me but I like his vote counts. Got a question for him though.
How would one go about analyzing wagons in this case though? Lets say mafia gets lucky and offs a mason what then? Placing too much trust or emphasis on one role ain't a good plan IMO.
adalia - Came out looking bad in that exchange with mchack and I don't buy the town vanilla lynch is good for town on d1 theory. I will vote depending on his responses to questions.
sage - Some things which tick my scumdar off when it comes to sage
Which didn't make much sense to me as I pointed out in post 393
Lets stop discussing what scum might do over the night since they might use our ideas? Look up choice overload for me.
Somehow this seems like someone lashing out, then again I dunno sage that well. So I could be wrong, will wait for explanation on this reaction to a seemingly innocuous question.

Since voting adalia would put him in a position for a quick hammer before he even gets back, I'd go with sage to see how things go there.

Vote sage

You are entirely missing the point.

Claiming mason isn't a good claim, it's the ONLY claim. Yes, scum are going to die in the night if they claim mason (although even that isn't guaranteed. Why kill a mason once you know who they are? You can avoid them and go for a conversion instead).
But if it's between that and being lynched, of course they will claim mason.
As for what I would do?
If I was almost guaranteed to die in the night I would take my risky slightly suicidal conversion shot, because what is there to lose? And if it hits then we are no better off (assuming the scum is NK'd), and in fact probably worse off because someone who was town and who was read as town is now scum.
And if it doesn't their buddy no knows for sure who a mason or other scum is.

Admittedly that point only really stands if everyone agrees that claimed vanillas have to be lynched, which I thought they would but obviously they don't. In that case claiming vanilla isn't an instant death knell for scum.

As for the second part, as soon as two masons are dead then there is no way to verify the remaining mason claims as being true or false (assuming they never claimed and confirmed each other before death). Which means that we have to go from not lynching any masons to lynching all of them, and at some point we will hit town in doing so (and while we are doing that scum will be converting us behind our backs).

What we need to do is prevent conversions. If by tomorrow we haven't lynched scum and they get two conversions (unlikely, but getting more and more possible as this day drags on) then town is in a really bad place. Out of 11 players 6 of them would be scum. Sure, they're not on the same team, but it's hard enough for town to agree a lynch without two rival teams of scum trying to control things too.

Even if we hit scum today if they can pull off two conversions we are still in a really bad position, so everything we do should be trying to stop conversions from happening.
We do that by
a) Killing claimed vanillas
b) Trying not to get our masons outed

Spat coffee on this one. XD


Reading my posts you will find me stating specifically "I am not suicidal" and for the very reason "I am not voting myself."

Seriously... you felt the need to say that out loud and give scum more ideas?
I know I'm not really the best to comment as I've probably said far too much about strategies etc. already, but I really don't think it was necessary to spell this out, unless you are trying to sign post the other scum team...

Was that what you were trying to avoid saying?

Mostly today, by tomorrow the masons claiming or being outed isn't as disastrous for town (and we are going to need to start killing scum, I just don't see it happening today)

Well lets say five people post that they find Leonard very scummy and they happen to be right. Maybe the other scum team had found him to be quite townie but now that his possible scuminess is pointed out that team decide not to try convert him.

Or say no one lists dedo as scummy, suddenly scum might think, "maybe that very townie player is a mason, I should shoot them or avoid them when looking to convert"

And do you think there is nothing to be gained from flub's lynch?
Who is most likely to want a claimed vanilla alive tonight? Town or scum?
And you can look at who is over eager to lynch him or who was against it but voted anyway (both of which can be scum tells in different circumstances)

Lynching flub would in no way cause a wasted wagon or lose the chance for analysis.

I'm not sure what that first sentence is supposed to mean...

Neither do I. But he will be tomorrow.
I'm not sure, but that's what we want to ensure (or other scum preferably, but I've already outlined why that probably isn't likely N1).
Once it becomes clear who is who (and it's only a matter of time really) then vanilla townies become a liability as they are possible to convert. So ideally we want scum to shoot them (which they will want to avoid, and they will want to avoid lynching them to keep a good pool of possible converts) instead of masons.

Wait.
You are suggesting a mason at L-1 shouldn't claim and should just get lynched?
Why?
If lynching a claimed vanilla is doing scums job for them why is it better to let masons die unclaimed instead of leaving scum to shoot them at night?
I'm surprised no one else has questioned this logic...

Obviously knowing the masons too, but even without it makes it far more likely for scum to risk a conversion and be successful N1, by which time even with one scum lynched (because we know who they are) they are almost in control of the lynch...



Working again tonight so probably won't be around much until tomorrow (and maybe not much then, it's another busy day, sofa shopping and work).
I'll be checking the thread and will obviously do my best to make an appearance if a deadline is announced.

So you think trent might be scum? Also why do you and sage assume that scum teams don't get these ideas by themsleves?

About the first part I still think it won't be as exact as you claim it to be but I agree lucky strikes are possible that way. Secondly about the wagon I'd say it would be muddied to say the least and finding scum from tells you've mentioned would be more of a crapshoot.

I don't know... I saw the reasoning behind "a known vanilla townie will be converted and is a liability; better to lynch him". But after reading others' posts I see that lynching him as a townie is a bad idea.

Which has me thinking. So far you all said that his soft claim means he's a townie. But the net result of his action is that he is not going to be lynched today. He could have foreseen that and counted on other players being intelligent enough not to lynch a townie. So he could be scum trying to fool masons/townies or a mason trying to fool scum. (Yeah, he could be a townie, a scum or a mason. I hope that narrows it down).

I'm not voting for him, but I am not completely taking for granted that he's a townie wither.

I didn't, had him as quite town leaning for most of the game, but I'm starting to doubt that read definitely. As Hyper has already pointed out his intention to vote for me (or not) comes off as quite odd. I currently am the logical wagon, whether you believe flub should be lynched or not there is no denying I'm currently the best bet for securing a lynch. So the way he phrased that sounds a bit like scum who is expecting me to flip town (I won't say know because in this game scum wouldn't know that I'll flip town) and doesn't want to be on the wagon.

I don't, but they may very well not get these ideas so why hand them to them on a plate unless absolutely necessary?

I disagree. I don't think a flub lynch is any more muddied then any other at this point.

But why?
I admit mchack has a good point in saying that we will know if he is likely to have been converted (in that there will be no NK or only 1 NK) but if that is the case we will just have to lynch him tomorrow and scum get a free day anyway where people probably aren't going to be looking too hard for them.
I really don't see why it's better to let him live if we're most likely going to have to kill him (or have a question mark over his alignment for the rest of the game).

I have considered this too. And I wouldn't put it past flub (the town arsonist, you should read that game if you have time it was fun), but frankly if as scum he decided to outwardly demand to be lynched and survived then I think he deserves the win.
But it is the secondary reason I believe he is a good lynch, in case the whole thing is actually very carefully considered WIFOM..

You seem to think scum are not capable of thinking for themselves. Do you think scum are going to just blindly post in their QT as to what they are wanting to do without talking about it among themselves? Do you think because someone is scum that they all of a sudden drop IQ points and can only use ideas posted in the game?

This is my concern too.
In a normal game I assume you aren't giving any information to mafia no matter what you say (since they already know everything on who's with/against them), but with 2 scum factions by unmasking one, you could be helping the other? But they can easily think of that too.
What's QT? I can't find it on the acronym mafia page
https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Commonly_Used_Abbreviations
which is where I check there for stuff like EBWOP. (I can't find IQ either, but I assume you just meant IQ ;))