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Correction to above: Krypsyn couldn't have been completely sure there were two mutants left, since Hunter might have failed conversion in addition to being killed.
Bueller
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gogtrial34987: [...] (Q: do we know for certain that this is so, or could he even have known that it was Hunter who recruited him? I don't recall if Lift made this clear anywhere?) [...]
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HypersomniacLive: We don't, Lifthrasil left it vague. If Bookwyrm627 is scum and knew who recruited him, was there anything stopping him from asking anyway in the game thread?
He didn't ask in the game thread about this. (What he asked was the other side, if everyone on the recruiting scum team would know that the recruitment succeeded.)
But if he knew that his recruiter was Hunter (instead of adalia), then he'd know for certain that adalia still had a recruitment left, and was worth protecting.

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HypersomniacLive: That caught my eye too, and even after looking up what "INS" all stands for, I was still not sure what he may have been meaning/doing there.
So there's nothing in a mafia context that INS could stand for?

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HypersomniacLive: I have to go over gogtrial34987's case and do a reread on him, but not sure if I can do it tonight (I'm running a fever, again).
Get well soon!

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Bookwyrm627: HSL recruits Hunter, Cyborgs kill Hunter: m2-1, c2-2
Damn, you're right, there's a case F, which is effectively case D, but then with Hunter being recruited:

F) non-hunter (mutant) recruitment success on hunter + cyborg NK on hunter :: m2-1, c2-2
  N2: mchack (mason) dead + dedo (cyborg) dead
  F1 or F2) dedo (cyborg) recruitment failed + mutant NK on mchack || cyborg NK on mchack + mutant NK on dedo :: m2-1, c1-1
    D3+N3: lynch krypsyn (cyborg) + adalia (mutant) dead
    F1a or F2a) mutant recruitment failed :: m1-0, c0-0

I'll need to ponder the implications of this.

@Lift: Given current activity and HSL's illness interfering a bit with his play, could I ask you to take away the threat of ending the day before Monday?
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gogtrial34987: I'll need to ponder the implications of this.
So if hunter was recruited to then immediately be NK'd, that'd mean that it was two original mutants remaining, of which the recruiting one probably would've been under at least as much, if not more, heat than adalia (HSL, flub and trent all had sizable wagons on them D1, so that doesn't narrow it down much), and would know for certain that adalia was worth protecting with their own lives if necessary.

That scenario would also mean that these scum wouldn't have cause to question Lift about the intricacies of which scum would know what.

Guess I'm going rereading again. That'll be this evening though, as I have friends coming over now.
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gogtrial34987: @Lift: Given current activity and HSL's illness interfering a bit with his play, could I ask you to take away the threat of ending the day before Monday?
OK. Given HSL's illness that is a valid request. So yes, the Day will end on Monday evening. European time.

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The lights flicker threateningly and grow a bit darker. Looks like Dusk is coming early today
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Post edited November 11, 2017 by Lifthrasil
I will refresh before posting.

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gogtrial34987: .................

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HypersomniacLive: That caught my eye too, and even after looking up what "INS" all stands for, I was still not sure what he may have been meaning/doing there.
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gogtrial34987: So there's nothing in a mafia context that INS could stand for?

.................
INS=ZFR

And clearly I was wrong.

Just let it go.

Watch as the pretty red balloon floats away.......
My time today will be limited as I have a football game to go to and afterwards will be prepping the house to receive guests. I’ll check in as often as I can but my attention will be elsewhere most of today.

I am placing my vote on bookwyrm as that’s what ZFR and gogtrial were wanting to do (although gogtrial hasn’t voted yet it seems)
Vote Bookwyrm
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gogtrial34987: So there's nothing in a mafia context that INS could stand for?
Nothing springs to my mind for it.
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ZFR: Maybe he wasn't. But it was a risk to call out adalia as scum, without being sure. The other case meant his partner died while recruiting adalia, so he would have been sure.
What risk are you referring to?



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gogtrial34987: [...] Now, his mason naming post was for me a big reason to town read Bookwyrm. He got so much heat for it, and there's just no way scum would invite that. [...]
Was the heat he got really that much? Even within the context of that point in the game, he got mchack on his back, as expected, a non-counting vote by adaliabooks, a question by dedoporno (the wording of which I found odd back then) and some arguing but no vote, a couple of exploratory questions from me, a vote from Krypsyn with no explanation, a vote from ZFR, and finally one from trentonlf. flubbucket moved on him after trentonlf unvoted, and it ended there as things moved into other directions.

As for the heat on adaliabooks, I'm also not sure it was all that much either. He never got more than three votes, and Leonard03 got much closer to getting lynched before Bookwyrm627 came on.

That's not to say that this clears Bookwyrm627 as scum/adaliabooks scum-buddy; the last part of his post #1221 fits him quite well as either alignment. Just that the heat he got is of the level I have him more than capable of managing with not much effort, and turning things around for him and his team as either alignment.


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gogtrial34987: He didn't ask in the game thread about this. (What he asked was the other side, if everyone on the recruiting scum team would know that the recruitment succeeded.)
But if he knew that his recruiter was Hunter (instead of adalia), then he'd know for certain that adalia still had a recruitment left, and was worth protecting. [...]
That's the question I meant by "asking anyway in the game thread"; sorry if it wasn't clear.

However, on rereading and checking back, based on Lifthrasil's reply to my and his question about access to the scum QT by converts, and the amended setup document, if he was converted N1, then he couldn't be sure who converted him, even if that info was in the scum QT. But, as he himself said, he could have been shaking hands with this scum-buddy in the game thread, and they could have communicated the, at the time, status of their team (have to look closer to his interactions with adaliabooks).

In the case of scenario F, he could have still asked the question as original Mutant to (continue to) appear uninformed town - you yourself go with "these scum wouldn't have cause to question Lift about the intricacies of which scum would know what", which basically takes him off of your suspects list.

adaliabooks first, and then Bookwyrm627, disagreed and kept arguing with mchack as to who'd have attempted a conversion N1, and why. At the time, I thought their argument made sense, and we all more or less went along with it all game long, but what if mchack was right? What if the Mutant team acted the way mchack was saying, and publicly argued the opposite?

Do you have solid reasons to exclude Bookwyrm627 in scenario F?


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gogtrial34987: [...] So there's nothing in a mafia context that INS could stand for? [...]
That's not what I meant.

From the results I've turned up, there are two definitions that would fit within a mafia context in a literal and serious manner, one that could in a metaphorical but still serious manner, and another two that could mean that he's avoiding a straightforward reply regarding his votes and suspicions in a goofy/fun making way.

From my experience with flubbucket, it could be any one of them equally, more so with his record in this game, hence my uncertainty.

But I see that flubbucket already gave an explanation, and may even be sincere about it.

And thanks for the wishes; unfortunately the treatment isn't working as intended/expected, so back to the doctor on Monday.



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Bookwyrm627: [...] why not just push some other player over the edge for a mislynch? [...]
As adaliabooks buddy, wouldn't that be what you'd do without deviating from your previous play and reads? In this context, wouldn't what you did with the FoS on those three, and your vote on Leonard03 be inline with your play? Leonard03 had already gotten plenty of heat before you came on and declared to be almost caught up, and at the time I had zero votes, and he had two. You put him back at L-3, where he stayed until Day's end when ZFR and Krypsyn moved off my wagon and on to his before trentonlf unexpectedly quickly hammered him (and trentonlf is no Mason as I thought; hmm...).

Granted, we all ended up mis-lynching Leonard03, but that's not exactly something that puts you in a better light. Or is it?


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Bookwyrm627: [...] Scum!me could have found an excuse to bow to Mchack's focus, considering how hellbent he ws on lynching one of Adalia, HSL, or me. Since I'd know that HSL wasn't on my scum team, then lynching him would keep both Adalia and I unlynched [...]
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Bookwyrm627: [...] that would probably have been enough drive to get him lynched, considering how close he was on D1.
Do you think that bowing to mchack's focus, and even "grudgingly" accepting my lynch, would have made you look less suspect, after the way you had been reading mchack and me all game long?


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Bookwyrm627: [...] Adalia didn't even try to deflect; he still has an ace up his sleeve in the form of an unsuspected teammate while we hunt Krypsyn's conversion, and as a bonus he might survive to convert someone. [...]
Based on the game thread, I was anything but unsuspected. In that context, this argument doesn't clear you from being adaliabooks buddy, as you've been quite instrumental in that "while we hunt Krypsyn's conversion".


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Bookwyrm627: [...] With HSL already a mutant, and me broadcasting all over the thread about Flub/Trent/Gogtrial being masons, that leaves ZFR and me as recruitment choices. I could see him going either way when picking between me and ZFR for a recruitment. ZFR is the mason, so obviously Adalia didn't fail to recruit me. [...]
Do you really think that I'd trust your reads, let alone to the point of basing our N3 action on them were I adaliabooks
buddy? I think you're giving yourself too much credit here in what looks to me more like an attempt to self-pres on me. Unless you want to claim that you're actually scum-reading me now, in which case I'd like you tu put down your arguments, and not just an alternative scenario to steer attention elsewhere, and get yourself off the hook.

So, why only on me, and not flubbucket or trentonlf? At this point it's clear that none of them are Masons, and none of the arguments you're using here hold less against them; I'd say that the "unsuspected teammate" one fits even better. Yet, you're not taking a single look into their direction. So, I can't help but wonder - could it be that you're counting on me being an easier mis-lynch? After all, you've pointed out plenty of times how close to being lynched I've been so far.



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flubbucket: [...] Vote: HypersomniacLive
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flubbucket: [...] I will keep my vote where it is unless there is compelling evidence to move it.
So, do you care to share what is your compelling reason/evidence for this vote?
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HypersomniacLive: ................
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flubbucket: [...] I will keep my vote where it is unless there is compelling evidence to move it.
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HypersomniacLive: So, do you care to share what is your compelling reason/evidence for this vote?
I will refresh before posting.

I will state unequivocally I have no reason nor evidence for this vote.

However, the whisky has stated this is the course we are to take.

So let it be written, so let it be done.
Blergh, either I'm right, or I was right earlier, or I'm right to doubt that I'm right.
I don't like trent's "meekness" right now, but he's trent, and more importantly, he was trent before, too.
I want to have been right about HSL, but he's still fully HSL, so well done to him if I was right.
flub has a red balloon.

I could spend all day tomorrow rereading, but all I'd do is find more shiny which I don't quite believe in.
So I just hope I'm right.

vote Bookwyrm
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Vote Count

Bookwyrm 2 - ZFR 1238, gogtrial 1256
HSL 2 - Bookwyrm 1226, flubb 1231

not voting: trent, HSL
It takes 4 to lynch, both current candidates are at L-2
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Lifthrasil: *************************************
Vote Count

Bookwyrm 2 - ZFR 1238, gogtrial 1256
HSL 2 - Bookwyrm 1226, flubb 1231

not voting: trent, HSL
It takes 4 to lynch, both current candidates are at L-2
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I'm on the edge, with Trent having already voted me.
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gogtrial34987: So I just hope I'm right.

vote Bookwyrm
So a mislynch it is. With the masons both on me, there is no chance of having enough town votes to lynch scum.

I could spend my time reiterating, but I don't think it would be a useful investment. If you didn't like my answers earlier, I don't have any new ones. If you can believe scum!me would risk lynch by naming the masons to allow town to look at more than 3 players, then I don't really know what to say, and it looks like my dying for trying just had a time delay.

Any questions before someone hammers?
unvote

I woke up with a thought.

Try it on on for size.
Flub was telling the truth all along.
Flub has a red balloon. Like, y'know, a certain clown in the sewers.
If we wouldn't lynch him on day 1, we would all end up scum (because he was going to recruit us).
On day 2, he was still a good lynch, but not the best anymore (because he'd recruited Hunter).

And wasn't it adalia who made us believe that was flub was doing, was claiming vanilla town?

I need to go look at flub's votes.