It's the Golden Rule.
There was always the slight possibility one was you telling the truth. That was the whole point of The Plan - to make it harder for either of you to lynch me instead of flub because of your claimed block ability.

I actually expected all of us to die in the end.

Dead thread was fun to read, for the most part.

@RWarehall - /m7: "So there are a couple people probably thinking I dropped hints of other roles to other players and I didn't! They will mistakenly think people know too much"
Out of curiosity, could you go more into this?

@mod - /m108: "They mean that the particular character is particularly good at "faking" an alignment and being hard to read".
I'm not sure I follow what difference that made when flipping Neutral, since there was no actual Mafia, and the only one who was once Mafia aligned, still flipped Mafia.


Seeing how the picks went, and reading the relevant posts in the dead-thread, I don't think that everybody that persistently picked the same player actually wanted them dead that badly. I thought it quite likely that at least some were actively looking for their kill to fail so they could position themselves as non-killing roles (like Lifthrasil did with his "I've got some info; should I tell?" post. I know it's something I thought of doing N1, more so after dedoporno had made that comment about expecting a lot of people to die N1. And I saw in the dead thread that cristigale did exactly that, while dedoporno said earlier something similar here. Curious who else went for this.


And some comments on specific dead thread posts:

@bler144 - /m10: "Did HSL kill me as I predicted?"
Sorry to disappoint. I was more interested in exposing Sage103082 as I was pretty sure she wasn't Town since sometime D1. Her flip, though, wasn't exactly as I hoped it to be.


@RWarehall - /m102: "If they daisy chain, the game will "fade to black" and all in the daisy chain will be declared winners".
Oh, I thought that in the case of 3 killers daisy chaining it, we just kill each other off, instead if cristigale had targeted dedoporno, we'd all have won. Dang, should have asked for clarification; I'd have factored it correctly into the possible scenarios and winning odds and combos.

@bler144 - /n118: "Though with JMich going out he probably jumps to the top of the 'most likely to get lynched D4' list as the LHF".
Yeah well, perhaps he'd have pulled it off if he hadn't come out with Mr Shooty McSootpants and that Zimmerman/neighbourhood watch backstory. Though after RWarehall revealed that flubbucket was travelling, I was inclined to think that he intentionally made himself the easy lynch choice. And I see that he confirmed it.

@trentonlf - /m119: "Dedo still has not had anyone take a shot at him, very surprising to me".
You can thank me for that as I screwed up N3 - my initial instinctive pick was dedoporno, with flubbucket just behind him, then at the last minute I switched to cristigale.

@trentonlf - /m134: "This game has been enlightening to see how people behave when they are trying to hide what is in effect a serial killer role"
Not really, imo. I doubt that there was anyone that didn't figure out sooner than later that we were all just a bunch of unaligned killers, and that anyone took anyone else's play as anything more than a facade. It was just like Lifthrasil's all-mafia game where we knew there's no town, yet kept pretending that we're all good little townies.
Put your PM aside for a moment, and go over the game thread - everybody was unusually careful not to make any waves, everyone found arguments as to why the LHF was the right lynch every single Day, nobody ever had anything enlightening/incriminating to report, and, as I said on D3 - so many dead, so many killing powers, yet no townies lying on the floor.
Also, keep in mind that it was my first time as a SK (not sure for how many others too), so I'd not count this particular setup as representative of how we'd play the same role in a (more) conventional setup.

@RWarehall - /m138: "Does anyone else find it a bit ironic that Cristi's claim is named "Bull" ".
I had to bite my fingers to stop myself from posting "Is Bull short for Bullshit?" when she claimed. ;-)

@trentonlf - /m145: "Post 973 is why I think dedo is one of the best players in the game on GOG.".
Bearing in mind that I took daisy chaining the kills to mean we all die, and while I agree that dedoporno is a damn good player, I thought post #873 was a tad too obvious as to what he was trying to do.

Going through the possible scenarios of picks, I quickly saw that one was certain to win (Mexican standoff) if the other two players picked them - they'd win no matter whom they'd choose, the only decision to make would be whom they'd want to win with. I thought that dedoporno had figured this out too, and given the Day play and claims, it wasn't that difficult to come up with arguments to suggest it.

But after reading RWarehall's post /m102, I see that it might not have played out this way in dedoporno's head.

@bler144 - /m147: "Though I give HSL props for at least making an effort to pretend it ain't what it is".
I had to. After screwing up N3, and as it turns out some of the scenarios too, there was no viable way to come out, and try to strike a deal with one of the other two. Had I figured out the daisy chaining correctly, I may had come out to strike a deal, though could I trust the word of American Psycho Pat Bateman and Professional Assassin Wesley Gibson? ;-)


Thanks for clarifying, makes sense.


More like the other players took different (read: completely opposite) paths when it came to the two of us.

That was great fun! Thanks to Rwarehall for hosting!

Congrats to dedo and Hyper, you both played a great game!

@RWarehall - I haven't read the dead thread, but I assume dedo and I both targeted Hyper. What would have happened if I had targeted dedo instead of Hyper? We would each have a shot on one another. (Never mind, I see this was answered after I posted)

Thanks to everyone who played!

There was? I had scratched that off sometime on D2 already. There wasn't really a dilemma regarding the lynch, we were going to lynch the obvious candidate, just like we did all previous Days.

But if you thought that, then perhaps I read too much of a plan behind The Plan?


I thought there were a couple of cases where we all could end up dead, but turns out that wasn't even possible.

I always try to cover as much possibilities as I can. Regardless of what I believe is the case. The Plan was just a contingency in case you decided to push for me and leave flub for the night. I was aiming to make sure I had cristi on my team if such a thing happened.

As for you figuring everything out D2 to the extent where you wouldn't consider anything else - good for you. I don't believe I'm that perceptive so I prefer to cover as much as possible.

The one thing I wasn't sure about until the very end was if everyone was shy or just some people.

Hey, so it was a good game afterall? I didn't follow at all after dying. Too much shite going on in RL.

*goes and checks who killed me*

thanks to RW for hosting!!! DON'T FORGET TO UPVOTE YOUR MODS!!!

yogs, I was pretty sure you were the Hunter Humperdink at first after you said "g'night Wesley, most likely kill you in the morning" - until I realized "no way he'd out himself like that by saying that." - it was quite a trip though! PMed RW right away going "WTF did he out himself like that?!"

can you make a summary post? I went looking and couldn't even find who killed me much less any specifc lists of Night Actions (searching keyword "night actions")

*EDIT* - ahhh, there we go - gee, flub killed me, why am I not surprised?!?!! (must have seen me as a serious threat!)

- bler "/m103 I dunno, I kinda feel like I'm a winner for getting killed N1. "

I can get on board with that!

In regards to figuring things out D2....

Disclaimer: Please don't hear the following as complaining, no complaints here. I don't think anyone was at a disadvantage. Just explaining my POV.

Those with mafia alignments had knowledge from the get go that some of us lacked. They knew that players who flipped mafia were likely a faction of one.

When flubb flipped mafia, I thought that confirmed a 2 player mafia team. Which suggested that town likely had a small team as well. I thought one of Hyper or dedo were likely town due to that.

Up until that time, I thought all singles was possible, but couldn't rule out small town/mafia teams.

Finished the dead thread...

@bler - yes, I targeted Hijack to hide my kill. At the time, I didn't know it would negate his kill.

Unrelated to the dead thread...
Regardless of alignment, I will give a claim like yogs or hijack's a pass on D1, if done well and an alternative lynch is plausible. I want that type of claim to be true whether I actually think that it's true. I appreciate the entertainment value it brings to the game.

So, the idea of the game was to bring that little Christmas Holiday shoot each other game you did, life as a true Mafia game. I had considered the idea of an open set-up, but the problem is the day phase becomes a lynching popularity contest. Thus, it needed to be a closed setup. When considering factions, it became immediately obvious that a solo Mafia faction was the same as an SK. Of course, letting everyone shoot would make an extremely short game.

At first, I had the thought of giving everyone a 1-shot bulletproof vest, but that line of thinking led me to the core game mechanic. Counting on the idea that with players familiar with each other, there is a tendency to group think and target similar players. I counted on this to keep the kills down, and it seemed to work.

The next step was how to deal with flips. When all the Night kills flips Neutral or Mafia, it wasn't going to be long before the day phase became the popularity contest I was trying to avoid. At first, I was going to go with "no flips" but that is not something this group is used to and I didn't think it would go over well. That's when I came up with the idea of "air quotes" which led naturally to the roles of "Town" Arsonist and "Town" Bodyguard of Arsonist. Throw in Christian Bale from American Psycho who comes off as "Town" during the day and I had the start of something. I couldn't make too many players be "Town", but I was hoping with Mafia and "Mafia" flips, the idea there might be two Mafia factions might keep the day phases played straight.

Throw in a little smoke and mirrors with an unnecessary "Twilight" phase plus a few suggestive references to investigative roles in the PMs, and I thought it would sustain enough doubt that no one could "break the game open" and ask everyone if they were also a SK. Besides the fact that doing so would be a "poison pill" as others are likely to declare their townliness as they lynch the person suggesting that. Obviously, I couldn't do full flips, but the slow random reveal (50% chance for each player one day after their death to reveal randomly one of name, role title, day job or gun ownership) was meant to keep the information flowing while still leaving enough doubt.

As to the lone Town role, the idea was to flip the tables vs. a traditional game. Town are notoriously "uninformed" as a majority. So the lone Town would, as a minority, be the most informed player in the game. This also meant that the "air quote" factions weren't misleading town at all. Without a kill shot, balance would be tricky, but I felt a single bulletproof vest combined with the knowledge advantage (which can help that player position himself as he wishes) should be a fair balance.

Overall, I'm rather pleased at how the game turned out. It was quite experimental, but worked out and was very well-played by everyone. The false claims were wonderful starting with HijacK covering for being the Terminator with being in a biker gang.

Thank you so much for a awesome game RW!! I loved this game =)

Oh, the game is over? Sorry for not checking in the last days. I've been in South Korea for almost three weeks now and was quite busy with conference and after that with some vacation days. Fascinating country!
I'll head back home tomorrow and from the weekend on I will be more available again.
Thank you for hosting this interesting game, RW!

@HSL: some time I'll get you, when I'm scum! ;-) This time you were protected by too many people wanting to kill you. But I think that means you are considered one of the most dangerous players. So you can feel honoured by everyone wanting to kill you! :-)