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JMich: poink
I've been mulling over something, and I'd like to hear your input.

How does Trent being prodded after night fall fit into your "Drealmer is vanilla" theory?
Sage103082: nip for attention
So you think Gamma is probably scum, and I guess I'm your second choice. What about the rest of the players? Who do you think is town? Anyone you think might be a NS?
There are still some discussions. But mostly silence. In that silence faintly, far away, a siren can be heard.

Vote count didn't change. No point in repeating it.
Notice: we're now in the 'Emission can strike at any time within the next 24 hours' period.
Post edited June 03, 2017 by Lifthrasil
GammaEmerald: The last paragraph here actually demonstrates my point fairly well. He was actually trying to get me to post content. I feel scum would just push the lynch through. It's been told to me as "scum don't want their mislynches to defend themselves".
Bookwyrm627: The post you quoted and your response to it seems like a massive non-sequitur. Please try again, more clearly this time.
TBH just read my response then. I just felt his post helped my point.
Public Service Announcement: If you are town, then we are very likely to be physically unable to lynch scum if you do not vote.
PSA, if you are town, being stubborn and refusing to look at all cases because you think you have enough scum on your plate does not help either.

Telling us how you only want to vote two people is not being town. Saying you find some things Cristi says as scummy but won't investigate is not towny. The door swings both ways.

My stand is as follows....

I believe Cristi is scum. The way she tried to pile onto Bookwyrm day 1 looked pushy for a case based on words like cultist. The way she tried to frame a case around me leaving out key elements such as Drealmer's alignment and the difficulty and danger for scum to actually attempt a quick hammer which her entire case is based upon. I do not see town-like investigation, but rather directed pushes consistent with seeking mislynches.

My leading theory is that she was Drealmer's partner (explained by her providing cover during the Book/Drealmer dispute).

#2 is that she is partnered with Gamma as he is mostly a black hole. A mislynch here is still a win if I am correct above and town gives due consideration to Cristi

3rd, in a fallback, I'd be willing to vote Bookwyrm whose anti-Town behavior makes me wonder if I could be wrong (I will discuss this more in a later post).

Thus barring any significant events...
Cristi > Gamma > Bookwyrm

Be aware, we likely only have 4-5 town left and need 4 to lynch. If it's 4, and someone is completely stubborn, the only agreed upon lynch will be scum approved. If it's 5, that is still a small window to achieve consensus.
Here's in a nutshell why Bookwyrm's play is anti-Town.
All he's done all day is call for and expose town PR information.

He even went so far as to call me out for missing knowledge and exposing that I have been Vanilla both days.

So, here is what I think I know as a Vanilla, all based on Bookwyrm's anti-Town pushes.

JMich is the doctor and does not have a PR today.
Sage is a watcher and is the doctor today.
Bookwyrm has a PR today which may be watcher or if this game is like the last one, another role from a pool.
Gamma is Vanilla/Vanilla.
I am Vanilla/Vanilla.
Cristi unclaimed.

All PRs accounted for all thanks to the great work of Bookwyrm (sarcasm). I may have some details wrong as I never had a role this game, which should be rather concerning given that according to Sage, scum has a PR power. Thus, since they are clued into the PR code, they should be able to glean even more out of this than I can.

This is why Bookwyrm is anti-Town. And I find it funny how Bookwyrm seemed to shirk off and pretend we have never had this argument before as Town v Town when I think I've discussed my views about breadcrumbing and pushing for town PR information what seems like a half dozen other times and how both actions invariably help give scum information they shouldn't have.

If you are town this game Bookwyrm, you are certainly not helping town at all. Without your great pushes, we would probably be left with ambiguous town information. Scum would be guessing who is best to kill and we would still be reaching a consensus on someone who hasn't claimed a role. In that world, we would have been better off...
And, for the love of God, if you are Town, try to confirm or deny anything I had to say above. That isn't the point. The point is that this entire day has been about giving out free information about town PRs. And given that scum know who is on their team, they have a big advantage parsing that information on top of the possibility their are two minds working together on it.

@Bookwyrm If you want to make an ACTUAL case against JMich, then do so. But when your entire case seems to be that he doesn't speak up as much as YOU would like, when his activity level is consistent with his play for years, I cannot justify voting that way. I'm not looking for excuses to vote your views of anti-Town play. I want to vote for scum. And given that we might be at MyLo, and your case seems to be based entirely on your dislike of JMich's style of play, I don't see that as your real focus.
And the above should read DON'T try to confirm or deny anything.
And as to your claims in the posts previous, Bookwyrm...
Claiming there are breadcrumbs that JMich "should be picking up" but not explaining them is not a case. I'm vanilla, why should I believe you when I cannot be certain of your alignment? Why should I believe you over JMich or Sage who have actually revealed something, which if they are scum would be taking a risk? Especially when, as far as I can tell, you have told us nothing about yourself, thus putting nothing out there for other PRs to counter-claim?

Next, why the heck do you want to press for who might be a NS? Are you scum and want to offer them a deal for the game? Confirming the existence of one is a possible game-ender. If there is a NS in play, and scum has 2 left, all they have to do right now is offer to carry that player to a win and they win right now 3T = 2S + 1N

C'mon Bookwyrm, think a little....
Sage103082: @bookwyrm - I thought it have made my thoughts on Gamma quiet clear. He is my number one scum pick. From his lack of posting to what he actually contributes. Even now he comes back to the game and answers one question from RW about himself and asks a few that dont really get anywhere in his im back post. How is this not hiding in plain sight/ lurking. And he is constantly getting away with it and being ignored by everyone. He says RW gave him the chance to post content. Where is it?? and he claims hes town and knows RW is too? How? and he hasnt answered you yet.

I apologize for not being as active the last two days real life does get in the way as much as I try to keep my time for the game.

After reading the posts today and rw pointing out my comment on I wasnt seeing it made me go back again.

cristigale: Gamma is at L-2 and still alive. That suggest to me that either Gamma or one of the players on his wagon are scum. Sage is the only player that I am fairly confident is town. Which leaves Gamma or RWarehall. I find it unlikely that RWarehall busing his buddy in this case. Which leaves the remaining part of the scum team in JMich/Bookwyrm.
Sage103082: @cristi- You say that one of the players on the wagon are scum. You discount RW and me But then ignore Gamma? and go to remaining scum team as Jmich/bookwyrm. Why? Why ignore Gamma all together?
@Sage - Please read that post in conjunction with the post that follows it. I said it's likely that either Gamma or one of the players on his wagon are scum.

My starting premise was that there is scum among Gamma/RWarehall/you. I removed you from consideration. At the time, i thought it was unlikely that RWarehall was busing his buddy. Which means one scum between Gamma/RWarehall.

That left the remaining scum (assuming 2 in play) was between JMich/Bookywrm.

The next post looks at the possible pairs given these assumptions. Gamma is listed initially in two pairs and one of the final pairs.
ISO Gamma - the things that stood out

Day 1
- Gamma votes Bookwyrm (doesn't like Bookwyrm's vote on drealmer).
- Loses a wall post (on Bookwyrm) and thinks Bookwrym is trying too hard. When pressed, agrees to repost it.
- Later has a scum lean on Dessi for his drealmer anaylsis. Votes Dessi.
- Provides a read list on everyone.

Thoughts - Not a lot of participation. I liked his votes, but prefer more explanation.

Day 2
- Gamma disagrees with Sage's ISO of his D1 play.
- Not planning to repost wall post.
- When Bookwyrm states that Gamma and JMich might be NS and scum, Gamma asks Bookwyrm to decide which is scum and vote. If we lynch a NS today, we likely lose. This leads to a brief back and forth with RWarehall about whether Gamma was claiming NS.
- Gamma still doesn't like Sage's ISO and is suspicious of her spot on the Dessi wagon. Votes Sage.
- RWarehall votes Gamma and then unvotes him to prevent a quick lynch. Gamma reads this unvote as townie.
- Claims vanilla
- Believes the scum team is Sage and one of JMich and Bookwyrm
- Later thinks Bookwyrm is more likely town
-RWarehall seems town because he backed off the lynch and pressed for information

Gamma stepped up his play early in D2 and seemed to be engaging. His contributions since the VLA are disappointing. I expected something more than lightly expanding on something he said before the absence.

Nothing has really pinged my scumdar. But other than early D2, there has been very little to notice. He could be lurking his way as scum.

I still think RWarehall is obvious scum. I have Sage as solid town. JMich as town. Bookwyrm as likely town.

My preferred vote is RWarehall, but I will also vote Gamma by POE.
@Bookwyrm - I get why you are suspicious of JMich. I just don't think scum-JMiich tries to pull that gambit. Town-JMich is especially guarded when he has a role. I think most of your clash with him is a difference in what is optimal strategy. I got to trust that JMich and Sage are making the right decisions regarding how much they reveal.

@Gamma - I think RWarehall backing off of your vote is NIA. Several of the regulars on this site will do the same regardless of alignment.

@all - If you want me to claim, I will. Obviously, it needs to be more than just RWarehall.

Also, I'm going to be gone most of Saturday and Sunday, it sounds like the Day will end sometime on Saturday. I'll check in before I leave, but it will quick. After that, probably won't be able to change my vote.
RWarehall has chosen to ignore my questions that address the lying, twisting, and exaggeration he used to build his case:

cristigale: snip
RWarehall: There is nothing fabricated here.
Please answer my questions about your specific statements. Otherwise, I assume you are purposefully dodging them.

This is what I called a "complete fabrication". How is not?? Prove that I said this or anything close to this:

RWarehall: I've seen posts like #231 before. Look busy, look townly. Also conveniently leaving out the possibility Drealmer was scum. And the tin foil hat conspiracy theory that I planned the whole thing out to create that fast mislynch...
cristigale: WTH? Where did I say anything like that??
Also please address this:

RWarehall: Then post 231, the same issue again ignoring the possibility the Drealmer might be scum. I very WIFOMy list of "all" scum pairs (note the lack of Drealmer possibly being scum. And again a directed attack based on some very arbitrary parameters.
cristigale: @Rwarehall - Where was the first "directed attack"? I don't see it mentioned. And what are the " very arbitrary parameters"?
And this:

RWarehall: Even Cristi's play I might lean a little towny in other games, but those two posts and just the general directed kamakase attacks on players all game are the scummiest things I see in the game.
cristigale: @RWarehall - So, I assume that you consider my vote on Bookwyrm a "kamakase attack". Where else have I done this? What other player(s)? All game??
If you put it out there, you should be able to back it up.
Bookwyrm627: If you are town, this assumes that you survived to provide your information at that time.
Survive and game still going so information should be provided. If there is a third party with the ability to kill, the game most likely ends after this night phase, so information is again irrelevant.

Bookwyrm627: Please provide a source for this. I don't recall this being stated.
I was recalling post 61 which was explaining why a cult couldn't be ingame. Similar reasoning to that could be done for a neutral killing party, though you are correct, it wasn't actually stated.

Bookwyrm627: How would you know whether Sage can verify/disprove your claim or not?
By her statement in post 268.

Sage103082: What are your thoughts on crisit and rw?
As already stated in post 307, leaning scum and town respectively.

Bookwyrm627: Let me ask you a question: What are JMich's opinions on Cristi, RW, and Gamma? Think about it for a minute.
See above. Yes, I have skipped Gamma so far.

Bookwyrm627: How does Trent being prodded after night fall fit into your "Drealmer is vanilla" theory?
Not incompatible. From what I recall, trent posted quite soon after nightfall (30 minutes? (checked Lift's post, 46 actually)), which could mean either that Lift hadn't send any PMs till then, that trent was working on a reply before night fell and didn't refresh before posting, or that trent didn't have a role on D1.

Now to refresh before posting this, just in case there was an emission.