It seems that you're using an outdated browser. Some things may not work as they should (or don't work at all).
We suggest you upgrade newer and better browser like: Chrome, Firefox, Internet Explorer or Opera

×
avatar
MarkoH01: Fun thing: this would be far more easy than removing the Hitman DRM ... and I still doubt they'll do it because they want to attract Galaxy customers with this.
After nearly one year I don't know if it still attract really that many peoples any more. What would have been much smarter IMHO would have been to give the goodies to everybody, Galaxy or not, and give the always online interactive map for free to peoples using Galaxy (instead of selling it one Gog). That would have probably avoided two controversies at once...
high rated
avatar
MarkoH01: Fun thing: this would be far more easy than removing the Hitman DRM ... and I still doubt they'll do it because they want to attract Galaxy customers with this.
avatar
eiii: That's exactly why this case is so important, as it clearly shows GOG's priorities.
Exactly. That's why I was so angry about it, even though the rewards are very minor content. The fact that CDPR themselves did add DRM showed the way they want to go and the HITMAN release proved the point. They want DRM here.

But luckily the outcry seems to have been big enough after all. They removed HITMAN! Good!
Post edited October 09, 2021 by Lifthrasil
high rated
avatar
Kevin04: Yes, the gallery is effectively a form of in-game achievements. Do note that the game still has a separate achievements section, though. It works and looks pretty much the same as the gallery, but its entries are actually implemented as Galaxy achievements. I think both should work offline and without Galaxy.

I have raised a ticket with GOG support and also posted to Code Mystics forum (devs of the PC port), maybe something can be done about it. I will post any progress here.
avatar
Lifthrasil: Thank you for keeping us updated!
Update for The Last Blade 2, about saving the gallery without Galaxy. Code Mystics responded within a day and said the following:

Hi, thanks for the message. Unfortunately, the way the system current functions is according to GOG and SNK's design preferences.

I've appended that to my GOG support ticket. Wanted to give them some time, but more than a month has passed now and I've yet to hear back from them. At least it's still open and assigned.
avatar
Lifthrasil: Thank you for keeping us updated!
avatar
Kevin04: Update for The Last Blade 2, about saving the gallery without Galaxy. Code Mystics responded within a day and said the following:

Hi, thanks for the message. Unfortunately, the way the system current functions is according to GOG and SNK's design preferences.

I've appended that to my GOG support ticket. Wanted to give them some time, but more than a month has passed now and I've yet to hear back from them. At least it's still open and assigned.
Thank you for the update. So it isn't a bug after all, but it's intended. I'll include it in the list, then everyone can decide if it's relevant for them or not.
low rated
avatar
Kevin04: Update for The Last Blade 2, about saving the gallery without Galaxy. Code Mystics responded within a day and said the following:

Hi, thanks for the message. Unfortunately, the way the system current functions is according to GOG and SNK's design preferences.

I've appended that to my GOG support ticket. Wanted to give them some time, but more than a month has passed now and I've yet to hear back from them. At least it's still open and assigned.
avatar
Lifthrasil: Thank you for the update. So it isn't a bug after all, but it's intended. I'll include it in the list, then everyone can decide if it's relevant for them or not.
How if the achievement list anything more than a trophy room to show off to others? How does that effect the design of the game or how it plays? It's just a list of achievements, why would it be at all meaningful to the game to have the achievements be offline only? It be nice to have sure but I hardly put that on the same list as cyberpunk2077

And that response is crap. That's just rewording "it's not a glitch, that's how it's intended" in a way they can outright throw GoG under the bus like they had any part in the development. Fuck that.
high rated
avatar
Lifthrasil: Thank you for the update. So it isn't a bug after all, but it's intended. I'll include it in the list, then everyone can decide if it's relevant for them or not.
avatar
mastyer-kenobi: How if the achievement list anything more than a trophy room to show off to others? How does that effect the design of the game or how it plays? It's just a list of achievements, why would it be at all meaningful to the game to have the achievements be offline only? It be nice to have sure but I hardly put that on the same list as cyberpunk2077
That's true. But it's not the online achievements. Those exist for that game separately. The gallery, as I understood it, is the only kind of game progress that you get in the single-player game, since it's an old arcade game and there are no saves. So the 'game progress gallery' isn't something to show off online, it is part of the offline game.

But you're right. That's not strictly DRM and not on the same level as some of the other games. I'm not sure either whether this games belongs on the list or not. For now, I have just put it there. Other players who own the game can feel free to explain more on how this affects the single-player experience. And everyone is free to make up their own mind.
avatar
mastyer-kenobi: How if the achievement list anything more than a trophy room to show off to others? How does that effect the design of the game or how it plays? It's just a list of achievements, why would it be at all meaningful to the game to have the achievements be offline only? It be nice to have sure but I hardly put that on the same list as cyberpunk2077
avatar
Lifthrasil: That's true. But it's not the online achievements. Those exist for that game separately. The gallery, as I understood it, is the only kind of game progress that you get in the single-player game, since it's an old arcade game and there are no saves. So the 'game progress gallery' isn't something to show off online, it is part of the offline game.

But you're right. That's not strictly DRM and not on the same level as some of the other games. I'm not sure either whether this games belongs on the list or not. For now, I have just put it there. Other players who own the game can feel free to explain more on how this affects the single-player experience. And everyone is free to make up their own mind.
Fair and a good answer. Well said, have my thumb.
avatar
MaceyNeil: Quote"
YI: a statement by a GOG blue, reported by mqstout, clarifies GOG's new stance on DRM:

All games available on GOG have offline installers available. We stay in touch with the partners and do our best to keep them up to date. However, video games continue to evolve with many titles offering online modes, cosmetics, and incentives for completing certain actions by players. This might be subjective, but as long as these additional features and rewards do not affect the single-player offline experience in a major way, we believe that the developers and publishers should be free to design and sell their games in a way they choose."

& hence the fine edge to which GOG cuts itself; subjectivity in allowing DRM in capitulation to the prevalence of DRM tie in's.
Lets get one thing straight from the community standpoint a minor feature are 'skins' a major feature is anything commonly used or expected to be used in the full experience of the game.
avatar
mastyer-kenobi: Could we get a link or citation. It lands in on what I've heard and what I've seen, but it be nice to get hard confirmation.

As for the rest, it's what I've been saying, this is a fine edge that uses extremely complex determinates. It's not entirely subjective, but the objective standard would be an utter nightmare to keep, let alone communicate, meaning the subjective ends up being the way this will go just out of practical concerns. This whole thing from IO is just a loophole abusing the limits in that statement, and fuck IO for doing so. As far as I'm concerned they committed a civil offense(false advertising,) and GoG is a victim in this. A not necessarily undeserved victim, but a victim nontheless.

People really need to get GoG doesn't run on the definition ALL lockout for any reason is DRM, it is okay to have some variable in the definitions of nouns and adjectives. Intrusive and stupid yes, worthy of downvoting and loses stars in review yes, but mutually exclusive to GoG standards, no.
Yes, but if your a company who's business is hashed out in meetings and legal forms there is no reason you cannot communicate clearly your businesses core strictures even by going over with the relevant stakeholders a slideshow of what is and is not acceptable.
Just a simple here is what we are about - our clients paying to use non commercially as if they own the product; here are some examples from our catalogue that shows firstly our gold standard for being drm free and here are some examples of what we've allowed on our store as a minimum of what our community will tolerate as shown by these reports and reviews; 'will your product comply & hence fit within our communities expectations as to the stance on DRM as the examples provide'.

Not as hard as you make it out to be. If the rights owner won't come to the table on that; sucks to be them.
Whilst not DRM as such (although there is account creation needed?), the online only games should be added to the list, Witcher adventure game, absolver, and the new axis & allies 1942 online. Whilst technically they can say there is some offline content (although one poster mentioned you need an account for offline) they are not single offline games. They are games as a service.
avatar
nightcraw1er.488: Whilst not DRM as such (although there is account creation needed?), the online only games should be added to the list, Witcher adventure game, absolver, and the new axis & allies 1942 online. Whilst technically they can say there is some offline content (although one poster mentioned you need an account for offline) they are not single offline games. They are games as a service.
Neither of those three are online only, and what do you mean by "they are not single offline game", yes they are games that are more interesting if played online / with other players, like a lot of board / card games, but then if we start considering all games like that we need to add Unreal Tournament to this list because technically it's not really a single player offline game either as it's not very interesting when played only with bots.

This thread is not the list of "single-player games that are more interesting in multiplayer".

Also which one is supposed to require an account for offline play ? I tried "Axis & Allies 1942 Online" and it works perfectly file while being offline and without Galaxy installed.
Attachments:
alied.jpg (351 Kb)
Post edited October 23, 2021 by Gersen
avatar
nightcraw1er.488: Whilst not DRM as such (although there is account creation needed?), the online only games should be added to the list, Witcher adventure game, absolver, and the new axis & allies 1942 online. Whilst technically they can say there is some offline content (although one poster mentioned you need an account for offline) they are not single offline games. They are games as a service.
Absolver is on the list. But Witcher Adventure Game is online only? Sure you didn't mean Gwent (which is on the list)?
avatar
nightcraw1er.488: Whilst not DRM as such (although there is account creation needed?), the online only games should be added to the list, Witcher adventure game, absolver, and the new axis & allies 1942 online. Whilst technically they can say there is some offline content (although one poster mentioned you need an account for offline) they are not single offline games. They are games as a service.
avatar
Gersen: Neither of those three are online only, and what do you mean by "they are not single offline game", yes they are games that are more interesting if played online / with other players, like a lot of board / card games, but then if we start considering all games like that we need to add Unreal Tournament to this list because technically it's not really a single player offline game either as it's not very interesting when played only with bots.

This thread is not the list of "single-player games that are more interesting in multiplayer".

Also which one is supposed to require an account for offline play ? I tried "Axis & Allies 1942 Online" and it works perfectly file while being offline and without Galaxy installed.
Yes, I just saw that on the other thread.

If a game is meant to be online and is designed that way with only a minimal lip service offline but, then it’s the same issue as drm, when the internet goes down or the servers don’t exist, you no longer have it. Sure we can argue degree, me I would put tournament in the category again, but obviously that is debatable. MMOs for instance however are definately. The problem is not including this indicates that any internet is fine, so long as something is available offline, maybe an MMO with the character creation as offline, would that be ok?
avatar
nightcraw1er.488: Whilst not DRM as such (although there is account creation needed?), the online only games should be added to the list, Witcher adventure game, absolver, and the new axis & allies 1942 online. Whilst technically they can say there is some offline content (although one poster mentioned you need an account for offline) they are not single offline games. They are games as a service.
avatar
Cavalary: Absolver is on the list. But Witcher Adventure Game is online only? Sure you didn't mean Gwent (which is on the list)?
Witcher adventure game is one of those in between, it’s a multiplayer game with no real offline solo play, hence why I refunded it way back. However it does allow hot seat, so perhaps it shouldn’t be on the list. Gwent definately should be of course.
Post edited October 23, 2021 by nightcraw1er.488
avatar
nightcraw1er.488: so long as something is available offline, maybe an MMO with the character creation as offline, would that be ok?
The only variant of MMO that would be ok is a distribution including the server code, so people who bought it could set up the full game themselves.
low rated
avatar
nightcraw1er.488: If a game is meant to be online and is designed that way with only a minimal lip service offline but, then it’s the same issue as drm, when the internet goes down or the servers don’t exist, you no longer have it. Sure we can argue degree, me I would put tournament in the category again, but obviously that is debatable.
But how do you determine that ? (i.e. what is "minimal" or not)

From that I saw Axis & Allies can be played offline against the AI, so it is not really any different from most other RTS, strategy, card games, etc... sold here. Neverwinter was originally created to be played in multiplayer with a player being the game master, so should it be on this list because it was originally designed to be "online" ?

You have peoples who will tell you that the main interest of Diablo and its sequels is to be played in MP, but on the other side others who only played the SP part and are perfectly happy with it, so who is right ?

Or do you consider the length of the SP part ?

In that case a game like Modern Warfare where the single player campaign is 2-4 hours long (but potentially hundreds hours if you play online) would it mean that if it was ever sold here it would appear on this list as having DRM even though the story campaign is fully offline ? But then we have fully SP games being sold here that can be completed in less than an hour so what to do with them ?


IMO It's already complicated enough to try (and fail) to have a single definition of DRM-free, if you start putting into the DRM category every games where the multiplayer part might be longer than the single player part it will only manage to confuse peoples even more.

avatar
nightcraw1er.488: Gwent definately should be of course.
Well if you want to be totally correct then Gwent shouldn't be on this list either because, unless it has changed recently, there is nothing "single player" about it. Apart from maybe the basic tutorial there is nothing in this game that you can "play" on you own, everything requires other players.
avatar
nightcraw1er.488: If a game is meant to be online and is designed that way with only a minimal lip service offline but, then it’s the same issue as drm, when the internet goes down or the servers don’t exist, you no longer have it. Sure we can argue degree, me I would put tournament in the category again, but obviously that is debatable.
avatar
Gersen: But how do you determine that ? (i.e. what is "minimal" or not)

From that I saw Axis & Allies can be played offline against the AI, so it is not really any different from most other RTS, strategy, card games, etc... sold here. Neverwinter was originally created to be played in multiplayer with a player being the game master, so should it be on this list because it was originally designed to be "online" ?

You have peoples who will tell you that the main interest of Diablo and its sequels is to be played in MP, but on the other side others who only played the SP part and are perfectly happy with it, so who is right ?

Or do you consider the length of the SP part ?

In that case a game like Modern Warfare where the single player campaign is 2-4 hours long (but potentially hundreds hours if you play online) would it mean that if it was ever sold here it would appear on this list as having DRM even though the story campaign is fully offline ? But then we have fully SP games being sold here that can be completed in less than an hour so what to do with them ?

IMO It's already complicated enough to try (and fail) to have a single definition of DRM-free, if you start putting into the DRM category every games where the multiplayer part might be longer than the single player part it will only manage to confuse peoples even more.

avatar
nightcraw1er.488: Gwent definately should be of course.
avatar
Gersen: Well if you want to be totally correct then Gwent shouldn't be on this list either because, unless it has changed recently, there is nothing "single player" about it. Apart from maybe the basic tutorial there is nothing in this game that you can "play" on you own, everything requires other players.
But by that logic, nothing can be stated by definition as DRM. If you start saying well, this game has 2 minutes which you can play offline, or this one has a character builder, or this one you can use the menu then the reverse is true. My definition is quite simple, I want 100% content under 100% my control 100% of the time. Anything short of that is managing my rights to a product. You can call it drm,or online gating, or online only, or activations, or disc checks, or code wheels or whatever. Your example of gwent is nonsense. One of the titles I have played most on iPad (I know, I didn’t want it, but hey the ownership fight is long lost as is privacy etc) is ascension, which is a card game competitive for 2-4 players or against AI. You can play it offline or online. Does Gwent provide even this basic level of single player, no. If Gwent servers shut down you have nothing. If ascension servers shut down, I can still play hot seat and against AI. Gwent is designed to eventually die when it’s cash has been made, built in planned obsolescence.
Not saying there is t a place for these types of things, but it hardly fits the bill for this place.
avatar
nightcraw1er.488: so long as something is available offline, maybe an MMO with the character creation as offline, would that be ok?
avatar
deesklo: The only variant of MMO that would be ok is a distribution including the server code, so people who bought it could set up the full game themselves.
That may well be an answer. But do companies want to do that? Online is about data capture and monopolisation. So no incentive for companies. Not sure how much incentive for users either, once the player base has gone, then is it worth it at the end of the day anyways. Maybe for some of them.
Post edited October 24, 2021 by nightcraw1er.488