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"China" returned 31 posts
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dycaite: They're lying by way of being incredibly vague with their statement and leaving out key details. It was not simply "many gamers" as they tried to spin it - THAT makes it sounds like WE asked for this.
“Many gamers” makes it sound like many gamers, not all gamers including you or me. I imagine that there are many gamers in China, so again, it’s not a lie. It is vague, but again, I’m not sure why you feel that they need to justify their business decisions to you personally. Or why you are taking this so personally to begin with. These threads come up every time gog decides not to sell a game for whatever reason and they always come off to me as entitled people complaining about how the company they buy things from doesn’t bend to their every whim. If Walmart decided to stop selling dirt devil vacuums would you start a letter writing campaign over it? Would you be personally offended by it?
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dycaite: Reading stuff like this, seeing people let things like this slide - really gives me little hope for the future. I'm not going to answer rhetorical questions all night long, I think I've made my point clear enough.
Letting things like what slide? You're outraged because GOG decided to pull an obscure game by a small company because a group of gamers from China was upset? And this is somehow a big political issue? This outrage about bending to China's will is almost laughable. I guarantee every one of the outraged protesters have houses filled with products made in China, yet they're convinced they're somehow fighting the good fight against evil China by vilifying GOG for not selling a game.
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dycaite: Reading stuff like this, seeing people let things like this slide - really gives me little hope for the future. I'm not going to answer rhetorical questions all night long, I think I've made my point clear enough.
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TerriblePurpose: Letting things like what slide? You're outraged because GOG decided to pull an obscure game by a small company because a group of gamers from China was upset? And this is somehow a big political issue? This outrage about bending to China's will is almost laughable. I guarantee every one of the outraged protesters have houses filled with products made in China, yet they're convinced they're somehow fighting the good fight against evil China by vilifying GOG for not selling a game.
Yup, not getting into that roundabout of an argument again - I'm here about Devotion, that's it. And anyone with half a brain can see that they are being insincere with their reasoning. THAT'S what I am sad to see people letting slide. If you honestly see no problem with the statement they released then God help you.
Post edited December 28, 2020 by dycaite
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dycaite: Because they refuse to give us any response, any clarification whatsoever. Why do Chinese gamers deserve an immediate response, but when we point out the holes in their excuse, we get the silent treatment? Why is that OK to you?
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firstpastthepost: They did release a statement. You just didn’t like it. I’m not sure what clarification you think is necessary. If they released a statement that said, “We decided not to sell this game because it would upset gamers in the Chinese market and that market is a large market we don’t want to lose market share in.” Would it really make you any happier? No, it wouldn’t. So what do they have to gain from providing clarification? They gain nothing, they would only provide ammunition to people who want to attack them and bad publicity. What you’re asking for makes no sense for them to do.
I would be happy to read an official statement containing a reasonable explanation as to why GoG decided not to release it to the rest of the world. There can't be a reason for this. They do it to Australian customers, Drakensang, they don't get access to this game. So if they are able to block games in certain countries they could very well do it for Devotion in China.

They can't say Oh, it would offend Chinese [i]netizens/gamers and they would boycott us over it[/i] so we can't release it on our worldwide store and expect any reasonable person to believe it. Unless GoG thinks of the Chinese netizens/gamers residing in other countries all over the world, who might be offended over this game, asking their fellow citizens to boycott Cyberpunk or the whole store. Not a reasonable explanation for their move.

So there really isn't much left they could possibly say to smooth things over. They could still release it, without statement, and block it for China. If they do feel offended, so be it, this isn't going to hurt GoG as much as they think it would. Reason being that while many may boycott CP or GoG, the urge to buy and play their games will be stronger. Making assumptions here, if it is anywhere like PC police, or minorities with hundreds of thousands of like minded (or mindless) followers, bots, etc. threatening to boycott, there is even less reason to even consider their threats. Why? Because in updates to the story on some HK and Taiwanese sources, it doesn't seem that any official parties had been involved in this, or orders from above.

Whatever they decide to do or say, if anything, could work for or against them. Saying nothing or not reacting to anything on the other hand seriously doesn't them any good even if there is little to say.

Add: There is one other thing to consider for GoG in this situation. Games containing the word kill and blood are forbidden there. If GoG now started to censor all of them, not only for China but for the rest of the world, because they can't reasonably ask developers to censor their games for one market only, this is a greater thread to their existence over there than any pressure from gamers/netizens who may not even be actual gamers/customers and their demands.
Post edited December 28, 2020 by Mori_Yuki
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Ancient-Red-Dragon: a huge preponderance of gamers - meaning literally hundreds of thousands to millions of people
You mean: many gamers?
Some of which probably coming from the most populous country in the world, aka: China?
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BreOl72: You mean: many gamers?
Some of which probably coming from the most populous country in the world, aka: China?
Not to mention the country where the majority of Cyberpunk pre-order originated from despite not being officially sold there.
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BreOl72: You mean: many gamers?
Some of which probably coming from the most populous country in the world, aka: China?
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Gersen: Not to mention the country where the majority of Cyberpunk pre-order originated from despite not being officially sold there.
I wasn't even aware of that. But it's sure nice to know.
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rojimboo: Exactly, they said 'many messages from gamers', which could mean a very active minority of gamers sending loads of messages, or it could mean many gamers sending many messages, or it could mean many gamers sending a few messages each. We don't actually know.
As you have demonstrated yourself, "many gamers" is already the most charitable interpretation. It's definitely not to GOG's detriment that it has become the prevailing one.

In fact the biggest problem starts with the word "gamers."

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rojimboo: the term 'many gamers' spread like wildfire and was quoted everywhere
Most often it was being paraphrased for entertainment value rather than quoted.

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rojimboo: I find it fascinating.
I find it nitpicking.
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BreOl72: You mean: many gamers?
Some of which probably coming from the most populous country in the world, aka: China?
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Gersen: Not to mention the country where the majority of Cyberpunk pre-order originated from despite not being officially sold there.
Can you state your source for this claim?
Post edited December 28, 2020 by Turbo-Beaver
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Turbo-Beaver: Can you state your source for this claim?
Quick google :

https://www.gamepressure.com/newsroom/cyberpunk-2077-conquers-china-highest-pre-sale-figures-in-the-wor/zb1f31
https://nikopartners.com/cyberpunk-2077-off-to-a-strong-start-in-china/
https://wccftech.com/cyberpunk-2077-is-off-to-a-strong-start-in-china-too-according-to-niko-partners/
https://www.essentiallysports.com/cyberpunk-2077-has-turned-out-to-be-a-huge-hit-in-china-even-without-an-official-release-cd-projekt-red-esports-news/
https://www.pcgamesn.com/cyberpunk-2077/sales-china
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If it's so well-substantiated surely you won't have a problem coming with an exact quote that corroborates what you claimed, and a link to it?
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firstpastthepost: And these you tubers I’ve never heard of speak for all gamers?
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Ancient-Red-Dragon: No, the youtubers don't speak for all gamers.

However, their videos, and their audience members' responses to their videos, proves that a huge preponderance of gamers - meaning literally hundreds of thousands to millions of people - know both that:

a) GOG flagrantly outright lied to them by saying they banned Devotion because "many gamers" told them to

b) GOG bent the knee to the CCP and banned the game solely in order to appease them, which is a fact that GOG is too cowardly to admit, hence their "many gamers" lie

And those, we who are the real many gamers who actually exist (unlike lying GOG's fictitious ones who they just fabricated out of thin air as a scapegoat cover-up for their bending of the knee to the CCP), they are boycotting GOG in droves as a consequence.

They may not raise a huge fuss about it here on the GOG forums (where it seems GOG apologists are now starting to out-number honest gamers who call GOG out on their diabolical crap, hence the mass down-rating of anyone who speaks honestly about this matter), but that silent majority do vote with their wallets, and GOG is financially suffering for that as a consequence, and will continue to do so until if & when they ever decide to "man up" and make things right in regards to this debacle.

By the way, "firstpastthepost," to use your own premise again: do the "many gamers" that GOG alleges caused them to ban the game...do they speak for all gamers? And if not, then why do they get a special privilege to dictate to GOG what games must be banned? Who made them gods or kings over all other gamers? How come normal actual GOG customers don't have that same power to ban games they don't like off of GOG?
I'm a real gamer (busy with my career, but I do game on my spare time) with more games here than I care to mention.

Maybe its a Canadian thing, but I don't really care about this issue either.

The developers of Devotion made an error in judgement, took a cheap shot at China's leader (whether or not you agree with their actions, I find name-calling actual living people to be of bad taste) and antagonised an economic juggernaut which is now making its displeasure known.

Many many other countries have applied economic pressures to get their way, probably less successfully than China it seems. As long as they limit themselves to applying economic pressures and don't send legions of hackers, its all fair game.

GOG is a privately owned company out to make money. It is not a vanguard of free speech or democracy (this is what the public space is for and this is why we need it... never assume that voting with your wallet is a substitute for real voting). As long as they are offering me the service that I want (ie, DRM-free games) and they are not killing puppies as part of their operating procedures (in this regard, I care about the big crunch their parent company imposed on their staff during the making of Cyberpunk way more, I'm a software developer too), its fine with me. They can have my money.
Post edited December 28, 2020 by Magnitus
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Turbo-Beaver: Just a single one could be enough if you quote where you think it says what you're claiming exactly.
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rojimboo: The first sentence of the first link after the first title.

"The Chinese are very interested in Cyberpunk 2077 - players from the country are responsible for the largest number of pre-orders of this game in the world."

Why make it so disingenious? Why so defensive? Is this a battle to be won? Nay, a war?
If it's so easy to substantiate this claim, why make it so difficult to check the references?

Well, maybe because if you actually look into any of them, everything boils down to 1 tweet by 1 guy, which, if true, only says that China was the #1 market for pre-orders on PC at one point.

That's a long way from what was originally claimed:

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Gersen: Not to mention the country where the majority of Cyberpunk pre-order originated from despite not being officially sold there.
For someone who is so very careful to make a distinction between "many gamers" and "many messages from gamers," conflating the two above must obviously be much more disingenuous, right?

Also, you seem to be criticizing me for simply asking that the claim be substantiated, while a moment ago you were saying yourself (to another poster):

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rojimboo: Can you quote the original Twitter post where they specifically said that in those words?
Weren't you able to locate the original tweet yourself? But then it appears you had known what was in it all along.

"Why make it so disingenuous?"
Post edited December 28, 2020 by Turbo-Beaver
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joppo: I would find it even more worrisome if those many messages were to come from few "gamers". Because then the power needed to override the decision that other countries's customers want is concentrated in the hands of just a few CCP shills and they can bend Gog at will without even a higher number of projected purchases to back them up.

Or do you think the half a dozen chineses sending a thousand messages each are intent on buying a thousand copies of CP77?

The interpretation as "many gamers" (sending one message each) is much better for Gog than the alternative.
The thing is that the Chinese PC market is in a very weird state, on one side you are supposed to have your game approved and censored to meet china requirements, but on the other side, at least for now, they don't seem to really care that much about Chinese purchasing "un-approved" games from online platforms and most of them are not even blocked there from what I understand. Added to that the China PC game market is one of biggest in the world and un-approved games included Cyberpunk which sold incredibly well over there and is very popular despite it's issues.

So it's easy to understand that, given the circumstances, Gog didn't want to attract any negative attention over there, they probably naively thought that everybody forgot about Devotion and were scared when they discovered it wasn't the case.

To be honest I wouldn't be surprised if those messages they received (if they are real) were not even from nationalist or CCP shills wanting to erase Devotion from the face of the earth, but from genuine Chinese gamers who were just afraid that releasing this game would attract the CCP attention and would result in Gog and Cyberpunk being banned over there.
Post edited December 28, 2020 by Gersen
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GamezRanker: Might just be coincidence, but I have noted a higher than average number of those who support GOG on this have been posters from Canada.
This is just a private company that pulled back when China exerted its economic muscle (and I would probably have done the same given an obscure game that overstepped boundaries of proper behaviour and China being a huge market).

Countries do that all the time (maybe not due to insults on their president, but for issues that can still seem quite petty when viewed from the outside). This is small potatoes not worth my time (though I find the objection to it fascinating to watch).

If China had hacked the problem away, that would have been strongly objectionable to me.

Fipa (the treaty Harper made with China where he sold out his country for a period 31 years in exchange for political capital) is extremely objectionable to me.

This is nothing compared to the above.
Post edited December 29, 2020 by Magnitus
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rojimboo: That implies interest and intent. Neither of which I possess in this matter.
Yes, I can see
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rojimboo: kthxbai
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rojimboo: Can you quote the original Twitter post where they specifically said that in those words?
how much disinterest
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rojimboo: *mind blown*
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rojimboo: Dude. The first sentence of the first link after the first title.
you seem to have
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rojimboo: *keeps observing*
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rojimboo: What about what's behind door number 3?

GOG's PR department is clearly woefully lacking, they need to hire someone competent. *picks random lurker on forum*
in the matter.

=-=-=-=

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Magnitus: This is just a private company that pulled back when China exerted its economic muscle (and I would probably have done the same given an obscure game that overstepped boundaries of proper behaviour and China being a huge market).
Might be partially coincidence, and i'm not saying all canadians are against this for the same(or even bad) reasons....still, it does seem rather odd to me that so many canadians seem to be okay with this.
Post edited December 29, 2020 by GamezRanker