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"China" returned 100 posts
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lace_gardenia: china is capitalism with communist aesthetics

they have billionaires
I believe that's what's called being "more equal" than others.

And what has happened here is a State actor meddling in the free market. That is the opposite of Capitalism.
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aez101: Perhaps you'd be happier living in China then?
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lace_gardenia: china is capitalism with communist aesthetics

they have billionaires
The government of China is communism with weaponized capitalism that merely profits its top government officials who also run the major corporations out of China. Their goal has always been to subvert Western powers and capitalism is the way to the heart of the West. It's certainly been effective. Barely anyone bats an eye anymore over the giant human rights violations communism commits on a regular basis, with concentration camps, organ harvesting on unwilling "volunteers", disappearance of critics and activists, the untold deaths of thousands to millions throughout history.

However, capitalism is all about the independent person being able to start a business and make it in life, whether they remain comfortable living off of a small amount of business, or push to become a major player by fulfilling important niches that bring consumers in. Anyone who ever trades in anything is working through capitalism.

Using the GOG service to buy games is partaking of capitalism, as they fulfill a niche service, providing DRM-free games people enjoy, old and new, with good customer support.

The point, however, is GOG is NOT providing good customer support by supporting a tyrannical communist government's attempts to hide media that, in its own mind or otherwise, undermines its appearance as the most powerful and rightful government in the universe.

And that is the focus of everyone's displeasure here. Capitalism works if GOG users use their consumer powers to influence GOG's behavior over this issue. The problem is if they continue to believe that it's "gamers", that is CCP-sponsored internet agitators, that are supporting this attempt at censorship.

I love GOG's services, but this is wrong. If the game does well or not, that's up to the power of capitalism to decide through each potential consumer, not because of a dictatorship that hates criticism in the least.
Post edited December 17, 2020 by GalacticKnight
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toxicTom: Also, China doesn't have anything resembling "communism" as a form of rule or economy, it's a form of state capitalism and a bureaucratic dictatorship.

Real communism is absolutely democratic, because there is no central power (which is determined by ownership of stuff, which equals power). And that's why it doesn't work on larger scales, only in small, well... communities (where the term comes from).
Amen. I have been saying this since the dawn of times but nobody ever listens. :P


I any case, this is the famous straw that breaks the camel's back. CDProjekt in general has been spiraling downward faster than light, this last act was just vile.
First they announce they'll give space to unjustly marginalized devs (a stupid joke about China's current ruler isn't a big deal, and if God Emperor Xi can't take any kind of humor he should visit a psychiatrist for self esteem issues), then they just bend over because they could maybe lose a couple of Chinese sales.

And to think this place used to have principles; no restrictions by region, equal treatment, blah blah...
Just corporate bs now. I'm most definitely reducing my spending.
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I think it's plain by looking back through my history I have been unhappy with the way GOG has conducted itself several times in the past. Each time, I have taken a long break before eventually realising nothing would change and coming back to support DRM free releases.

If anyone here actually thinks this thread and the comments on the Twitter post will change anything, you are very mistaken. They do not care about anything other than their bottom line, and that China money must sure sound good.

Devotion looks like a genuinely fantastic game, made by a developer who could genuinely use the financial support being on a big storefront would provide. Bowing down to the CCP bot mop is frankly reprehensible.

At the very least, I am taking yet another long break from giving you money. I am hopeful that will last long enough to be part of some change, I wish more DRM free storefronts existed that had the type of games i'm interested in so I could make it permanent.

Perhaps I should also be seeking a refund for 2077, since you had the nerve to release it in the state that it is. A good game under the mess for sure, but only a morally bankrupt company would dare release it in the absolute state that it is in right now.
Post edited December 17, 2020 by lmc2002
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None of this has to specifically be about China, as long as what happens in China stays in China. I don't have a problem with GOG taking into account their Chinese customers' sensitivities, and if they operate in China I agree they should follow the local laws and regulations (or shut up shop). GOG already does this in other markets (no dismembered limbs here, no hot coffee there, etc.).

However the majority of us who are not in that particular country should not have the restrictions from just a single foreign jurisdiction or cultural sphere GOG operates in imposed upon us. It is also easy to see where this is headed: next someone offended with the depiction of their religion will demand another game to be delisted, then somebody will take issue with, say, Leisure Suit Larry, and before long the French will be demanding The Witcher 3 be taken down for stereotyping them as baguette-eating bumblers in the Toussaint DLC. The endgame is that the only games safe to remain are going to be Solitaire and Tetris (if no Russians take offense with the soundtrack).

This of course would be a dead end for a platform attempting to make money from selling games, so it's best not to take this route at all. Instead, as long as it's legal and meets the quality criteria, any game should have its place on GOG. So it's perhaps Cyberpunk 2077 that deserves more to be delisted instead until the developers address the DRM issues.

On a separate note, the GOG statement that the decision was reversed due to "messages from gamers" is a piece of work as well. As if covering up for the quite obvious reasons beyond this decision wasn't shameless enough, it is extremely patronizing and condensceding to come up with such a contrived excuse and present it to us as an explanation. After all, as demonstrated on these message boards, everybody can clearly see that GOG as of late could not care less about any feedback from any "gamers." And these are the people who actually, for the most part, spend money here on GOG, as opposed to some randoms on social media.

It appears GOG has no problem with a tiny if vocal minority of people unlikely to buy anything anyway enforcing their own culture of censorship upon GOG's actual paying customers worldwide. In other words, GOG cares more about social media nobodies than actual customers. Good luck running your business this way, if this is not resolved I'm certainly done buying from you.

(Edit: apparently posted twice.)
Post edited December 17, 2020 by Turbo-Beaver
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Enebias: a stupid joke about China's current ruler isn't a big deal, and if God Emperor Xi can't take any kind of humor he should visit a psychiatrist for self esteem issues.
Agreed. It's the with Mohammed jokes that lead to the deaths of a magazine staff in Paris (Charlie Hebdo shooting). If your divine figure can't take a joke, it's a pretty brittle one...

On the other hand that is our Western perspective... and also a recent one. People who made fun of Hitler were threatened with death not only in Germany, but in the whole Western world between 1934 and 1938. Many people saw him as a visionary, messiah even, before WW2. People are like that in times of trouble, and China has went through a lot of that. Or think of the "Communist craze" in 'Murica under Carter.

To defeat an enemy, you have first to understand them, and also understand yourself. And it's, by irony of fate, a Chinese who wrote that, Sun Tzu. The Chinese apply that, we don't, they win.
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EnforcerSunWoo: If nothing else I hope that Red Candle can get Devotion published somewhere else (perhaps Playism) and pick up much needed sales from this. They really did get royally screwed in this deal. Also what is very sad that they still have their own relaunch trailer up on youtube for the 18th...
Honestly that's the things that annoy (to remain polite) me the most in this whole fiasco, that CDPG knell down before China honestly I am not surprised, sadly every international companies does, from Valve, Activision to Microsoft, Google and Apple. So that they don't want to sell the game because of that, I don't like it but I can understand it.

But announce that they will sell the game, let the devs announce it too, and then suddenly out of nowhere change their mind and put some BS excuse of "it's gamers who asked us too" that really rub me the wrong way. Not only it's a major dick move toward the devs but it's also so incredibly stupid from a PR point of view. I mean it's not like this game "controversy" is something hidden, literally 1 minutes on Google reveal all of it, how can anybody be so stupid as to announce the game and cancel it two hours later.

At this point it's not shooting yourself in the foot it's dropping the whole US nuclear arsenal on it!
Post edited December 17, 2020 by Gersen
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lace_gardenia: china is capitalism with communist aesthetics

they have billionaires
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ScarletEmerald: I believe that's what's called being "more equal" than others.

And what has happened here is a State actor meddling in the free market. That is the opposite of Capitalism.
corrupt state-capitalism or lassies faire capitalism, either system exploits the worker
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EnforcerSunWoo: If nothing else I hope that Red Candle can get Devotion published somewhere else (perhaps Playism) and pick up much needed sales from this. They really did get royally screwed in this deal. Also what is very sad that they still have their own relaunch trailer up on youtube for the 18th...
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Gersen: Honestly that's the things that annoy (to remain polite) me the most in this whole fiasco, that CDPG knell down before China honestly I am not surprised, sadly every international companies does, from Valve, Activision to Microsoft, Google and Apple. So that they don't want to sell the game because of that, I don't like it but I can understand it.

But announce that they will sell the game, let the devs announce it too, and then suddenly out of nowhere change their mind and put some BS excuse of "it's gamers who asked us too" that really rub me the wrong way. Not only it's a major dick move toward the devs but it's also so incredibly stupid from a PR point of view. I mean it's not like this game "controversy" is something hidden, literally 1 minutes on Google reveal all of it, how can anybody be so stupid as to announce the game and cancel it two hours later.

At this point it's not shooting yourself in the foot it's dropping the whole US nuclear arsenal on it!
GOG obviously had an agreement with Red Candle Games, one in which that they broke. Why the hell should any indie dev trust them at this rate? Who's to say that they won't bend the knee to some other controversy down the road and boom, another game removed, and boom here is another, and yet another. Where the hell does it end? This sets a terrible precedence that might have repercussion upon itself in short order.

They also are saying that the demands of China outweigh all of their customers in the rest of the world, and this is by their actions alone. This is so very short sighted that it isn't even funny. I fail to see the logic in the decision and do not believe that they took any time whatsoever in coming to said decision. It is almost like they lost their fucking minds.
Post edited December 17, 2020 by EnforcerSunWoo
Politics, politics everywhere... GOG> locks the game. Funny, but at least they are consequent.

As of (no) censorship, its a double-edged sword. Some things are not really compatible and there is no clear winner. Take your pick and be happy with it.

Though, what surprises me more is the China's reaction, I expected them to be a tad smarter. Reminds me of an Elephant turning pale from a butthurt yelling Software-Mouse... must have created a good black PR for Devotion, a good argument to boost the price, the usual stuff.
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My family left China to get away from this crap. Why the hell does this have to follow me?
This issue with companies bending over for the CCP/China really gets tiring and i can understand why people get really fed up with it all.

What would be the fallout if GOG decided not to deal with China (they wont relent. companies love money too much)?. I know Tencent has fingers in a few areas based on the wiki link someone posted earlier (thanks)


Question - how many games have devs from Taiwan got on GOG? (im curious).Love to ignore the games made by devs in china.
Post edited December 17, 2020 by Niggles
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gameragodzilla: My family left China to get away from this crap. Why the hell does this have to follow me?
Big Brother is watching you all the time.
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Niggles: What would be the fallout if GOG decided not to deal with China (they wont relent. companies love money too much)?. I know Tencent has fingers in a few areas based on the wiki link someone posted earlier (thanks)
I guess CDPR was threatened that Cyberpunk 2077 and other games made by them might be banned in China if they don't comply. That would mean huge revenue loss, not only now, but also in future. Since they will want to milk Cyberpunk multiplayer to death with microtransactions or subscription model, no access to Chinese market would hurt them.

Probably nothing about the Chinese investors (if they have any), but their investors in general.
Post edited December 17, 2020 by ChrisSZ
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Niggles: What would be the fallout if GOG decided not to deal with China (they wont relent. companies love money too much)?. I know Tencent has fingers in a few areas based on the wiki link someone posted earlier (thanks)
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ChrisSZ: I guess CDPR was threatened that Cyberpunk 2077 and other games made by them might be banned in China if they don't comply.
Cyberpunk isn't even approved for publishing in China and given the content of the game I don't see it being officially released either. Their Chinese customers are using VPN to buy the game or just outright pirating it.

Maybe they're worried about future trouble by Chinese regulators if they try to enter the Chinese market directly in the future. Or maybe they are just such cowards that Chinese troll army scared them away from the game.