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Gilozard: Dude. Did you not see that the problem is fixed? And that GOG is working with the dev to get a GOG-only build going forward?

There's no reason to request a refund at this point. Before it was fixed, sure. Now, not so much.
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SirPrimalform: Dude, if you read the thread properly you'd see that it is in no way fixed. The problem that alerted us to the DRM is fixed, but the DRM is still there.
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Gilozard: They already fixed the issue and are in communication with the dev to make sure it doesn't happen again. Plus, they're offering refunds. Screwups happen, and this is a pretty comprehensive fix for something that GOG didn't do. It doesn't really lower my opinion of GOG - a small business with overworked, mediocre devs is going to have problems like this, the important thing is fixing it asap and preventing the same mistake going forward. Looks like that happened, so I'm good.
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SirPrimalform: No. The issue is that the game has very active DRM that gives the devs the power to deactivate your game. That has not been fixed yet, all that has happened is that they've reactivated our game using the power that they shouldn't have. The was sold as DRM-free, it wasn't DRM-free and still isn't.
I agree that this should never have happened. But a DRM-free build is in the works, which is all that can be reasonably expected out of this scenario. A long-term fix is in progress and immediate relief has already been put in place.

I see a bunch of people jumping onto refunds as a knee-jerk response without actually considering that getting DEFCON through GOG is going to be the only way to actually get it DRM-free (once the new build shows up) and that GOG is the only party in this process trying to actually fix mistakes (bugging the dev, really fast response time for a problem like this).

Refunds are going to hurt GOG much more than the dev. GOG is the party fixing the problem. Think a bit before heading straight for a refund.
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Gilozard: Your scenario already doesn't apply. Even prior to this, if the game couldn't connect to the servers nothing happened.

Only when 1) Game could talk to the servers, and 2) Key was deactivated did a problem happen.

I agree that single player games shouldn't phone home. But given that the typical scenarios (offline computer, server down) were already accounted for and an updated build is in progress I don't think it's worth causing all the hassle of refunds.

A refund request will hit GOG, not the developer. Maybe they can get money back from the dev but probably not - refunds don't typically work that way. What you're doing is pulling money out of GOG's pocket, the dev won't notice a thing.
Yes the game did work offline, but when you had a connection available the game was still asking the server if it should run. This is what gave the developer the power to deactivate everyone's game and it shouldn't have been on GOG.

You're right about refunds, they'll probably come out of GOG's pocket but I don't see a problem with that. Either they knew what the game was doing and accepted it, or they had no idea because they didn't check it enough. Either way they didn't do their job properly.
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Gilozard: There's no reason to request a refund at this point. Before it was fixed, sure. Now, not so much.
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Lemon_Curry: I wouldn't call that 'fixed' just yet. Besides, it appears the users have to send a message to the head honchos at GOG about not owning up to their mistakes and not taking their responsibilities seriously and what better way to do this than requesting a refund?

Whatever the initial cause GOG is ultimately to be held accountable for this embarrassing situation.
Long-term fix is in progress and immediate relief is already in place. That's pretty close to fixed.

No, everything's not perfect, but we live in an imperfect world and sometimes major screwups happen. I don't view punitive action as very productive. Better to communicate disappointment a la support and this thread (hopefully people are emailing the dev as well, since this is largely their fault). GOG is very responsive to that, as we've seen.
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Gilozard: Your scenario already doesn't apply. Even prior to this, if the game couldn't connect to the servers nothing happened.

Only when 1) Game could talk to the servers, and 2) Key was deactivated did a problem happen.

I agree that single player games shouldn't phone home. But given that the typical scenarios (offline computer, server down) were already accounted for and an updated build is in progress I don't think it's worth causing all the hassle of refunds.

A refund request will hit GOG, not the developer. Maybe they can get money back from the dev but probably not - refunds don't typically work that way. What you're doing is pulling money out of GOG's pocket, the dev won't notice a thing.
ok thanks for clearing that up. Still I want gog (and the dev most of all) to notice that I find this not acceptable. The thing is I am always online and deactivating the key was obviously done deliberately by the dev since this is not something that happens via an update but has to be done on the backend. The very Idea that the dev can deactivate my single player game whenever he chooses to do so, is enough reason for me to request a refund.

That the refund firstly hits gog is a shame, but I hope that they can get their money back from the dev and if not at least remove the game from the cataloge until this situation is clearly impossible to happen ever again.
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Gilozard: Your scenario already doesn't apply. Even prior to this, if the game couldn't connect to the servers nothing happened.

Only when 1) Game could talk to the servers, and 2) Key was deactivated did a problem happen.

I agree that single player games shouldn't phone home. But given that the typical scenarios (offline computer, server down) were already accounted for and an updated build is in progress I don't think it's worth causing all the hassle of refunds.

A refund request will hit GOG, not the developer. Maybe they can get money back from the dev but probably not - refunds don't typically work that way. What you're doing is pulling money out of GOG's pocket, the dev won't notice a thing.
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SirPrimalform: Yes the game did work offline, but when you had a connection available the game was still asking the server if it should run. This is what gave the developer the power to deactivate everyone's game and it shouldn't have been on GOG.

You're right about refunds, they'll probably come out of GOG's pocket but I don't see a problem with that. Either they knew what the game was doing and accepted it, or they had no idea because they didn't check it enough. Either way they didn't do their job properly.
At least one person has been saying that the dev will be the one making refunds, so I simply wanted to make it very clear that that was not what was happening.

From my perspective, most of the reasons I require DRM-free were still going to be fine, so while it's utterly unacceptable that this happened and it needs to be fixed asap, I'm not going to flounce straight to a refund.

I can see why GOG trusted the dev and then had problems when it turned out the game wasn't really DRM-free. I can see their efforts to remedy the problem now and in the long-term. It's upsetting and disappointing but sometimes people make boneheaded mistakes, and I don't think punishing GOG is the right answer when they're trying to fix the problem.
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Gilozard: Your scenario already doesn't apply. Even prior to this, if the game couldn't connect to the servers nothing happened.

Only when 1) Game could talk to the servers, and 2) Key was deactivated did a problem happen.

I agree that single player games shouldn't phone home. But given that the typical scenarios (offline computer, server down) were already accounted for and an updated build is in progress I don't think it's worth causing all the hassle of refunds.

A refund request will hit GOG, not the developer. Maybe they can get money back from the dev but probably not - refunds don't typically work that way. What you're doing is pulling money out of GOG's pocket, the dev won't notice a thing.
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mchack: ok thanks for clearing that up. Still I want gog (and the dev most of all) to notice that I find this not acceptable. The thing is I am always online and deactivating the key was obviously done deliberately by the dev since this is not something that happens via an update but has to be done on the backend. The very Idea that the dev can deactivate my single player game whenever he chooses to do so, is enough reason for me to request a refund.

That the refund firstly hits gog is a shame, but I hope that they can get their money back from the dev and if not at least remove the game from the cataloge until this situation is clearly impossible to happen ever again.
Glad to clear that up! Make sure to email the dev too - they very likely don't follow GOG's forums, but they'll probably notice an email or a thread in their own forums. Direct communication is always the best way to get something through to people.

EDIT: I can see how the key deactivation happened accidentally - the dev probably forgot it was the GOG key, saw a whole bunch of people using the same key, said "PIRACY!!" and deactivated it. There could even be an automated system that tracks this and flags keys for deactivation, so the dev wouldn't be involved much at all. That's typically how keys are handled afaik.
Post edited July 02, 2015 by Gilozard
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Gilozard: Your scenario already doesn't apply. Even prior to this, if the game couldn't connect to the servers nothing happened.

Only when 1) Game could talk to the servers, and 2) Key was deactivated did a problem happen.

I agree that single player games shouldn't phone home. But given that the typical scenarios (offline computer, server down) were already accounted for and an updated build is in progress I don't think it's worth causing all the hassle of refunds.

A refund request will hit GOG, not the developer. Maybe they can get money back from the dev but probably not - refunds don't typically work that way. What you're doing is pulling money out of GOG's pocket, the dev won't notice a thing.
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SirPrimalform: Yes the game did work offline, but when you had a connection available the game was still asking the server if it should run. This is what gave the developer the power to deactivate everyone's game and it shouldn't have been on GOG.
But then if you disabled that connection again the game would then fully work right? I agree it needs to be fixed and the dev should never have had the power to reverse a DRM free game but your really making a mountain out of a molehill here. If it completely deactivated it and then you have no way to continue to play I would see why your would be so upset but that doesn't appear to be the case here, correct me if I'm wrong.

GOG is not perfect, and there not single mind, a lot of times you probably got the right hand doing something the left hand doesn't know. Really think you and other people need to cut them some slack, it was one game and they have already said it's being taken care of. It's not the end of DRM free on GOG by any means.
GOG sold the game under false advertising, it's perfectly fine to demand refund due to said false advertising, it hitting their pockets may make them think twice before allowing such a thing to happen again.

GOG QA team had turned down patches multiple times before (that I got devs confirmation of) so they should've done it here too, if that's what reactivated DRM.

I buy games here because I want them disinfected, at times games I already own on DRM services or with some form of DRM. If I bought something the 2nd time under premise it's clean, and it ends up being shipped with DRM, it would be useless to me, and if we did not make noise here this wouldn't have been fixed at all. How many other cases similar to this are there somewhere, that simply noone reported yet? So yes, hurting GOG is the way to go so they get the message that this is unacceptable and take better care in the future.
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Gilozard: At least one person has been saying that the dev will be the one making refunds, so I simply wanted to make it very clear that that was not what was happening.

From my perspective, most of the reasons I require DRM-free were still going to be fine, so while it's utterly unacceptable that this happened and it needs to be fixed asap, I'm not going to flounce straight to a refund.

I can see why GOG trusted the dev and then had problems when it turned out the game wasn't really DRM-free. I can see their efforts to remedy the problem now and in the long-term. It's upsetting and disappointing but sometimes people make boneheaded mistakes, and I don't think punishing GOG is the right answer when they're trying to fix the problem.
I really think GOG needs to show us that they understand that the game is not DRM-free by removing it from sale until the dev has finished removing the DRM. All of their statements on the matter have been contradictory or not really shown an understanding that the game is not DRM-free and has not been for quite some time. Ciris referred to the dev's reactivation of the key as "DRM check in DEFCON has been removed by the developer.". That is either a lack of understanding as to what the problem is or sneaky spin. Either way it is concerning and I want to know that GOG actually understands what the problem is.
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BKGaming: But then if you disabled that connection again the game would then fully work right? I agree it needs to be fixed and the dev should never have had the power to reverse a DRM free game but your really making a mountain out of a molehill here. If it completely deactivated it and then you have no way to continue to play I would see why your would be so upset but that doesn't appear to be the case here, correct me if I'm wrong.

GOG is not perfect, and there not single mind, a lot of times you probably got the right hand doing something the left hand doesn't know. Really think you and other people need to cut them some slack, it was one game and they have already said it's being taken care of. It's not the end of DRM free on GOG by any means.
Nope. Deactivated indefinitely, starting it without a connection after it was deactivated didn't help.
Post edited July 02, 2015 by SirPrimalform
Refund requested.

I believe this is the only way for me to let Gog know this is unacceptable.
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lazydog: Refund requested.

I believe this is the only way for me to let Gog know this is unacceptable.
It's coming up to a week since I responded to support requesting a refund and still nothing. Let me know if you hear anything.
Post edited July 02, 2015 by SirPrimalform
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SirPrimalform: Nope. Deactivated indefinitely, starting it without a connection after it was deactivated didn't help.
Okay that was not how it sounded based on what some other people described. So it was only fine on the universal key until you connected online and played. Still you have a solution which was the MP key or reinstall with standalone installer and deactivate the internet, but I fully agree that it should not be needed.

I still think your making to much a of a big deal out of this, don't get me wrong... I'm glad you posted this and got the attention of the GOG staff but bashing them for a simple mistake and because you got a support person that didn't understand just how important the issue was is not needed. Trust my I get aggravated with support too because I've contacted them with issues and gotten replies I know won't have any effect, to which never actually solves my issue. The support team is not always the best method for getting things done,

I don't agree with how this game was considered DRM free, neutralizing the DRM is fine it just has to be permanent, and in this case they failed at that. Lets hope the learn something from it, but I'm not going to hold it against them as along as the take steps to rectify this issue.
Post edited July 02, 2015 by BKGaming
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rampancy: I miss the days when we had The EnigmaticT here. At least he would have had the decency to be upfront and honest about matters like this. Now, all we have is contradictory and ultimately meaningless double-speak like, "Wow, now the online DRM in our DRM-free game works the way it should! You should be so happy now!"
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BillyMaysFan59: I still keep wondering why he decided to quit. :(
I think he saw the writing on the wall and didn't like what it said :(
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Pajama: I think he saw the writing on the wall and didn't like what it said :(
That's my best guess. At any rate I think TET abandoned ship at the right time.

Still sad, really :(
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Pajama: I think he saw the writing on the wall and didn't like what it said :(
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BillyMaysFan59: That's my best guess. At any rate I think TET abandoned ship at the right time.

Still sad, really :(
I agree - he made GOG a much better place to be than it is now.
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BKGaming: Okay that was not how it sounded based on what some other people described. So it was only fine on the universal key until you connected online and played. Still you have a solution which was the MP key or reinstall with standalone installer and deactivate the internet, but I fully agree that it should not be needed.

I still think your making to much a of a big deal out of this, don't get me wrong... I'm glad you posted this and got the attention of the GOG staff but bashing them for a simple mistake and because you got a support person that didn't understand just how important the issue was is not needed. Trust my I get aggravated with support too because I've contacted them with issues and gotten replies I know won't have any effect, to which never actually solves my issue. The support team is not always the best method for getting things done,

I don't agree with how this game was considered DRM free, neutralizing the DRM is fine it just has to be permanent, and in this case they failed at that. Lets hope the learn something from it, but I'm not going to hold it against them as along as the take steps to rectify this issue.
The fact is that the game contains code that allows the developer to remotely disable your game and GOG doesn't seem bothered. How is that not a big deal for a supposedly DRM-free store? It's not just the 'solution' I got from support, it's also Ciris's replies. They show either a lack of understanding of the issue or a lack of concern. Either way, Ciris is speaking for GOG in this thread and the lack of concern/understanding is distressing. Yes a proper solution is coming, but they're still happily selling the game and have been for ages.
Post edited July 02, 2015 by SirPrimalform