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"China" returned 33 posts
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hera35: The difference is you can criticize any political leader in the West.
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toxicTom: You can even criticise Winnie, make fun of him, whatever. The game will be blocked for China, that's all.

The problem is that the dev is question is from Taiwan, and tension there are high all the time, short before hot war several times.
Let's also not forget the the dev snuck this mockery of Winnie into the game without the mainland publisher knowing - also people with families to feed - and the this unsuspecting company got completely destroyed in the process. That's simply not nice, despite "freedom of art" and all that. If I snuck Mohammed caricatures in my game and told you to publish it in Saudi Arabia, would you be happy to lose your head over "freedom of art"?
... France ... I agree with Macron on freedom of speech.

Also, the whole Winnie the Pooh thing is gone in GOG, so it's not really relevant.
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BitLiz: Honestly, I was just hoping GOG responded something. Anything.
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toxicTom: They can't. It's that simple. Because the answer would be "we can't lose China" (esp. with CP2077 which is hugely popular there), which they can't say because they don't are "officially" in China.

https://www.theguardian.com/games/2020/dec/17/taiwanese-horror-game-pulled-from-sale-again-after-backlash-in-china

Like many PC gaming firms, GOG operates in a grey area in China. The company’s service is available in simplified Chinese, and to users without a VPN. But the Chinese government technically requires games to be licensed for sale in the country – a process strictly controlled by the National Radio and Television Administration and Ministry of Culture and Tourism.
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toxicTom:
Let's be honest. GOG, DRM-less ... the library is likely pirated in its entirety over there. It's why the made the deal with the Chinese One Plus phone manufacturer for a Cyberpunk 2077 exclusive to at least cash out on it that way, I think.

I think if they have anything to fear, it's the attempts at subterfuge from a 50 cent army, like chargebacks coming from accounts that only buy the game then stop the payment saying they've been ripped off. Maybe that's why the developer has limited the release to a controlled number of physical copies as well.
Post edited December 20, 2020 by BitLiz
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toxicTom: They can't. It's that simple. Because the answer would be "we can't lose China" (esp. with CP2077 which is hugely popular there), which they can't say because they don't are "officially" in China.
The beauty of China. They let you do anything but officially they don't allow you to do them. The moment you fall out of favor they can officially erase you because you already violated multiple rules.
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Every time GOG does something like this, I pull farther away. I'm not done, but I'll be Danner if I advocate for them again until they change. Always capitulating to the minority mob is terrible, and capitulating to a country's government who has no respect for human rights is even worse. Sure, China has money. But I guess their money is more valuable than goodwill of the rest of the world. FCK DRM. And FCK GOG, CDPR and CDP for their recent shitty behavior and catering to the closest thing this generation has to a villainous government.
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hera35: The difference is you can criticize any political leader in the West.
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toxicTom: You can even criticise Winnie, make fun of him, whatever. The game will be blocked for China, that's all.
But that's not all. The game is unavailable altogether, if you didn't happen to know. That's the point. Games are censored or banned in China all the time, that's nothing new, but in this case China's influence extends enough to disallow selling the game everywhere around the world.

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toxicTom: If I snuck Mohammed caricatures in my game and told you to publish it in Saudi Arabia, would you be happy to lose your head over "freedom of art"?
What a nice false equivalence. In this case
A. The offending material has already been removed.
B. GOG could simply choose to not publish the game in its Chinese storefront.
GOG's decision isn't defending human lives, only their bottom line. And the public image of a dictatorship regime taking human lives, of course.

A more equivalent example would be sneaking Mohammad caricatures into a game, followed by Saudi Arabia demanding the game won't be sold anywhere in the world, ever. Which is essentially what's happening here.

Point being, GOG went to lengths and bounds to protect CCP's public image abroad by making the game unavailable altogether. And that's a worrying development. Maybe this time it's a game you had no interest playing, but what about the next one? We'll just roll over and let China decide what games we're allowed to buy and play?
Post edited December 20, 2020 by hera35
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toxicTom: Tell that to the original publisher, they'll be glad to hear it...
And what does that have to do with me? Or GOG's stance on this issue? GOG didn't remove the game out of solidarity for the poor publishers who previously got fucked over by China, they're doing the exact opposite in fact: taking CCP's side in this issue by punishing the developers again for ever daring to insult the great leader.
Post edited December 20, 2020 by hera35
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hera35: And what does that have to do with me? Or GOG's stance on this issue? GOG didn't remove the game out of solidarity for the poor publishers who previously got fucked over by China, they're doing the exact opposite in fact: taking CCP's side in this issue by punishing the developers again for ever daring to insult the great leader.
The publisher got "fucked over" by Red Candle, who hid the Winnie joke in the game and should have known this won't end well, especially coming from Taiwan.

And GOG doesn't "side with the CCP", they're "siding" with the shareholder of of CD Projekt SA, and simply because they must.

Get real.
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hera35: And what does that have to do with me? Or GOG's stance on this issue? GOG didn't remove the game out of solidarity for the poor publishers who previously got fucked over by China, they're doing the exact opposite in fact: taking CCP's side in this issue by punishing the developers again for ever daring to insult the great leader.
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toxicTom: The publisher got "fucked over" by Red Candle, who hid the Winnie joke in the game and should have known this won't end well, especially coming from Taiwan.

And GOG doesn't "side with the CCP", they're "siding" with the shareholder of of CD Projekt SA, and simply because they must.

Get real.
There is no denying the fact that they are effectively helping an authoritarian censor people even outside his nation by denying us to see whatever he doesn't wants us to see.

Also the developers should be free to do whatever joke they like. They shouldn't have their game pulled out of non Chinese entities because the little Chinese dictator is scared of a meme.
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toxicTom: And GOG doesn't "side with the CCP", they're "siding" with the shareholder of of CD Projekt SA, and simply because they must.

Get real.
So you're admitting you condone Chinese censorship both in China and outside it whenever it happens to suit the company you're bootlicking? Loud and clear.

Of course, CD Projekt is well within their legal rights to remove a game for whatever reason they please, they can help government mandated censorship outside said country because it's more profitable, they can also lie to their international customers, they can manipulate a game’s review process with pre-release footage NDA and do all sorts of anti-consumer and anti-developer practices, and they can slowly renege on every single one of their founding values that made them popular in the first place, whenever it happens to best serve their bottom line.

I'm not denying whether they could do any of that, but likewise customers are well within their rights to not keel over because of said decisions and accept eating shit. Don't expect everyone likes being treated as second-class customers that try to deflect blame from a multi-million dollar company by making this some sort of humans rights issue regarding the developer endangering their partners, rather than CD Projekt’s own conduct. This is a debacle CD Projekt chose.

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§pectre: So will you be quitting games altogether or buying them from other places that are just as bad?
Why buy them? Plenty of ways to get GOG games without dealing with their store. They clearly don't mind losing dirty foreigner euros.
Post edited December 20, 2020 by hera35
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toxicTom: Tell that to the original publisher, they'll be glad to hear it...
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hera35: And what does that have to do with me? Or GOG's stance on this issue? GOG didn't remove the game out of solidarity for the poor publishers who previously got fucked over by China, they're doing the exact opposite in fact: taking CCP's side in this issue by punishing the developers again for ever daring to insult the great leader.
Gog already did this to their own customers already.

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§pectre: So will you be quitting games altogether or buying them from other places that are just as bad?
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hera35: Why buy them? Plenty of ways to get GOG games without dealing with their store. They clearly don't mind losing dirty foreigner euros.
Plenty of people complaining about this don't mind other aspects of censorship etc. Why are they annoyed now that some chinese people complained about a game. Why start with gog when there are other tech companies doing far worse.
Post edited December 20, 2020 by §pectre
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blueGretsch: No, it's not, because then I would have to boycott every Western producer or seller that sells products manufactured in China, wholly or partially, which requires more effort than the amount I care about this drama. The developers made a [unnecessary] choice to be controversial [this poster adds nothing of value to the game], whilst knowing fully that a ban could be one of the consequences. Also, this is a Taiwanese developer, so there are obvious background connections to be made, why PRC reacted so strongly. Poland (CDPR/GOG) and the EU don''t even recognize the independence of ROC, to my knowledge. Lastly, why are only Americans allowed to be nationalistic, proud of their political leaders ? When it's other countries the people there must be brainwashed. Contrary to US right-wing dogma, there are plenty of Chinese who are proud of their country and it's leaders, what they have achieved. The only thing we hear about are those who oppose it.
Holy god man. you are poisoned by liberalism.
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§pectre: Plenty of people complaining about this don't mind other aspects of censorship etc. Why are they annoyed now that some chinese people complained about a game. Why start with gog when there are other tech companies doing far worse.
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hera35: Setting aside the obvious whataboutism, what makes you think people complaining about GOG censorship are somehow okay with other tech companies doing similar things, and that they already haven't complained? Earlier in this thread I wrote a list of different customer boycotts that actually managed to change something.

And besides, "because everyone is doing it, that makes it okay for GOG to do it too" is a really weak fucking argument in favor of GOG. Bravo.
Proud of you for standing up to these communist wannabes. Keep up the good fight.
Post edited December 20, 2020 by zgrillo2004
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hera35: So you're admitting you condone Chinese censorship both in China and outside it whenever it happens to suit the company you're bootlicking? Loud and clear.
Turning the words around in my mouth is an obnoxious way of discussion.

The world simply doesn't work like you want it to. Deal with it. Because if you don't even make an effort of understanding how things work, you'll never have a chance to change anything. Like child stomping their feet "I want a cow, NOW!"

Accusing someone trying to explain what bad things happens, and why, of "condoning them" is stupid zealotry, simply put. If I explain to you, why genocides happen, do I "condone" genocides?

Maybe I do "condone" GOG not bringing the game (which I probably would have bought), because I can see them not having much choice in the matter.

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Aand... getting downvoted for telling the truth of what Red Candle did to their original publisher.

By all those with "freedom of speech" in their every second sentence. You're all such heroes xD
Post edited December 20, 2020 by toxicTom
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toxicTom: Like child stomping their feet "I want a cow, NOW!"
Unlike Chinese nationalists stomping their feet, "I want censorship, NOW!". Or you demanding paying customers just silently accept GOG's decision. GOG is not entitled to my continued business either. Deal with it.

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toxicTom: Aand... getting downvoted for telling the truth of what Red Candle did to their original publisher.

By all those with "freedom of speech" in their every second sentence. You're all such heroes xD
People are not morally obligated to agree with you, just like people don't have an obligation to defend GOG and keep using their store. That's literally what free speech is. Neither is your post getting censored from this website because of downvotes, but you obviously already knew that. After all, you're the master of resorting to false equivalence fallacy every single time the conversation isn't going in your favor.

Besides, GOG created this up/downvote system you happily use, maybe you should join us and complain to them. Or I dunno, move to China. They seem to love everyone always being in agreement. lol
Post edited December 21, 2020 by hera35
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serpantino: ...
I'll agree with your title, but the rest you're out of your damn mind. Ever been bullied before in school or something? Ever been in that situation where the staff of the school defends the bully over you? We're in the adult version of that, right now.

But i'll take your title. I agree. You see, for my analogy, it's time that we antagonize the bully. The bully has power only because we're afraid of the bully, and the teacher's afraid of how the bully could make their life harder. The solution, I believe, is to antagonize the bully. If we're not afraid, if we don't care, China has no power over us. The solution is to meme war, make our own games, etc. Either China will be exposed as not actually caring about the issue, like we suspect, or they'll cave out of the shear pain we inflict on them in return. Either way, we show them their threats have no control over us, and the shenanigans stop.
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Words are cheap and protests easy.

Who here really know all the ins and outs ... none I reckon ... just a lot of assumptions being made, some quite ridiculous, many overly dramatic on so little facts known.

Who truly knows GOG's financial state or how separate things are with the parent company.
Who really knows what deals, many of them no doubt secret for a variety of reasons, that GOG may have with others like Epic etc.

I certainly suspect GOG are between a rock and a hard place ... been too much happening in the last year or so, that indicates this is likely the case.

Any difficulties with China could break them and we lose GOG ... for what ... one game or an attitude about it.

Why should GOG have to stand up for a company that did something, whether rightly or wrongly, that caused them grief. How is it's GOG's place to do so. GOG have a curation process, and some games make it some don't. GOG don't owe the DEVs or PUBs they refused, anything ... not even the possibility of a chance.

So many crazy posts and threads here, by people, that if you checked their homes, are probably full of Chinese products. How about they practice what they preach before attacking others like GOG, and there are oodles of businesses out there who need attacking long before GOG should be in their sights.

While I don't like what happened with Devotion, do you know what disgusts me more right now ....

How about we focus on the real enemy, and stop being drama queens, foolishly pretending it is bowing down to China.

Look at the bigger picture ... take off the blinkers.

P.S. Many of the Chinese are great people, who cannot be held responsible for their leaders. Such is the case all over the world with many races.
Post edited December 21, 2020 by Timboli
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Timboli: Any difficulties with China could break them and we lose GOG ... for what ... one game.
It's not the game, it's their attitude and all they told ourselves they represented. Do you think it is worthy it to bow down to the Chinese? Then you go and do that, but I never!