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Johnathanamz: Very closely comparable true, but Microsoft has the money to spend on Research & Development (R&D) to further improve DirectX 12 than Vulkan.
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shmerl: Vulkan is developed collaboratively and has way more backing than MS now. All MS money won't change that. Remember what happened with WebGL? MS tried to pretend they can ignore it. They failed.
Whatever live in your little bubble.

WebGL Microsoft ignoring it was a whole different story.

Clearly you don't see 7 major video game engines will be supporting DirectX 12 including VALVe with Source 2.

So continue to ignore.
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Johnathanamz: WebGL Microsoft ignoring it was a whole different story.
Same story. MS lost the browser wars and were hit by the sledge hammer named competition. Now they fall in line and instead of sick lock-in run to implement open standards in the browser. Same will happen with general graphics with time. As soon as MS lose lock-in methods in some area, they actually start doing something useful for everyone there. Competition is a good medicine for them.
Post edited March 18, 2015 by shmerl
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hummer010: This is where you are missing the point. Cross platform is where it's at. Period. Developers are going to start to choose whatever is the easiest path to hit multiple platforms, including mobile devices. And why wouldn't they?
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Johnathanamz: How about instead of arguing over and over you and shmerl wait until, lets say March 2016 and see which API gets used more on PC. DirectX 12 or Vulkan ok?

Lets see if DirectX 12 will be used a lot on Windows while Vulkan will be used fro Linux and Mac OSX.

Deal? Or do you want to keep arguing. I already named 7 major video game engines that will use DirectX 12 on Windows.
I never mentioned anything about DX12 vs Vulkan. I said you're fooling yourself if you don't think cross platform matters. How many of those 7 engines you've mentioned are going to be cross platform?
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Johnathanamz: WebGL Microsoft ignoring it was a whole different story.
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shmerl: Same story. MS lost the browser wars and were hit by the sledge hammer named competition. Now they fall in line and instead of sick lock-in run to implement open standards in the browser. Same will happen with general graphics with time.
I don't know what Bing uses and I don't care what Bing uses, but it looks like Bing is starting to gain momentum from google.com.

But yeah good job on ignoring that VALVe is adding DirectX 12 support to Source 2 in probably 2016 and the 6 other major video game engines that will support DirectX 12.
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Johnathanamz: How about instead of arguing over and over you and shmerl wait until, lets say March 2016 and see which API gets used more on PC. DirectX 12 or Vulkan ok?

Lets see if DirectX 12 will be used a lot on Windows while Vulkan will be used fro Linux and Mac OSX.

Deal? Or do you want to keep arguing. I already named 7 major video game engines that will use DirectX 12 on Windows.
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hummer010: I never mentioned anything about DX12 vs Vulkan. I said you're fooling yourself if you don't think cross platform matters. How many of those 7 engines you've mentioned are going to be cross platform?
All of them will be cross platform supporting both DirectX 12 and Vulkan.

Still does not change the fact that all of them are supporting DirectX 12.
Post edited March 18, 2015 by Johnathanamz
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Johnathanamz: Still does not change the fact that all of them are supporting DirectX 12.
DX is useless outside MS systems. And MS systems overall percentage is declining. Mobile systems now grow like mushrooms. And Vulkan will be used there, no doubt. It will affect its usage on the desktop as well. There is no point for developers to waste time supporting multiple APIs when one can work well.

Anyway, I think it already went long enough into APIs off-topic ;)
Post edited March 18, 2015 by shmerl
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Johnathanamz: Still does not change the fact that all of them are supporting DirectX 12.
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shmerl: DX is useless outside MS systems. And MS systems overall percentage is declining. Mobile systems now grow like mushrooms. And Vulkan will be used there, no doubt. It will affect its usage on the desktop as well. There is no point for developers to waste time supporting multiple APIs when one can work well.

Anyway, I think it already went long enough into APIs off-topic ;)
Keep dreaming. I am done responding to this topic until May 2016.
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shmerl: DX is useless outside MS systems. And MS systems overall percentage is declining. Mobile systems now grow like mushrooms. And Vulkan will be used there, no doubt. It will affect its usage on the desktop as well. There is no point for developers to waste time supporting multiple APIs when one can work well.

Anyway, I think it already went long enough into APIs off-topic ;)
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Johnathanamz: Keep dreaming. I am done responding to this topic until May 2016.
Sure, come back and check out how Vulkan is doing then :) MS lost this one. Mostly thanks to AMD and Valve.
Post edited March 18, 2015 by shmerl
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gooberking: I get why they may be hesitant to throw up Arkham Knight on day one, but there 3 other games that have run their course to one degree or another. AA has even had its DRM and any client dependencies removed. Just let it let it go Bilbo. Let it go.
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shmerl: Actually I don't see any difference between old and new titles here. DRM doesn't change anything for either of them in a sense of increasing sales. On the contrary, by not releasing them DRM-free from day one all they get are lost sales from those who don't buy games with DRM.

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Johnathanamz: DirectX 12 is better than Vulkan
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shmerl: There is no indication of that. MS took all the ideas from Mantle to make DX12. And Mantle was used to create Vulkan. Bingo.
I was more pointing to the idea that any logical line of thinking one can use to justify DRM should break down dramatically over time. Regardless of how it all plays out when something first hits the streets, it seems like it would be easier to convince someone to let go of the DRM on something that is several years old and has multiple sequels, than something new. The fear never seems to go away though. At least not until something absurd like 10 years has gone by.

And someone that doesn't buy something on release because it's not DRM-free still could buy it in the future should it be made available as such. Any loss in sales would be due to the value of the game having substantially declined between the two version releases. That may or may not be what you meant.
Post edited March 18, 2015 by gooberking
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gooberking: I was more pointing to the idea that any logical line of thinking one can use to justify DRM should break down dramatically over time. Regardless of how it all plays out when something first hits the streets, it seems like it would be easier to convince someone to let go of the DRM on something that is several years old and has multiple sequels, than something new. The fear never seems to go away though. At least not until something absurd like 10 years has gone by.
Yeah, it's easier to approach them with that argument. However the fear is still highly irrational. Which is just a weird thing for suits who are supposed to calculate money instead of having irrational fears.

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gooberking: And someone that doesn't buy something on release because it's not DRM-free still could buy it in the future should it be made available as such. Any loss in sales would be due to the value of the game having substantially declined between the two version releases. That may or may not be what you meant.
Yeah, the value is either reduced, or lost altogether if that potential buyer simply isn't that interested in older releases. Either way they degrade sales potential.
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shmerl: No, all experts say it won't have any edge over it.
May I get some links for Vulkan, since a quick google search only gave me the announcements? Quite interested to see what has been revealed so far.
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hummer010: Cool! While I would like to have 2k here at GOG, I already own the whole Bioshock franchise on steam (+ Bioshock 1 DRM free from Humble).

Either way, I'm excited to see yet another great game on Linux.
I still cannot believe I did not get the original Bioshock from humble DRM free.
If there was, you'd more than likely never hear an official word before 2K's arrival (at least not from GOG). Furthermore, before Bioshock Infinite would even have a chance of coming here, Bioshock 1+2 would have to be released first.
Post edited March 18, 2015 by Grargar
Bioshock Infinite just got a Linux version.
Huh? Then why don't I see it in my library?
Attachments:

Bioshock Infinite just got a Linux version.
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Sanjuro: Huh? Then why don't I see it in my library?
'coz u so addict to the STEAM you ain't ever loggin' out, yo
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hummer010: Cool! While I would like to have 2k here at GOG, I already own the whole Bioshock franchise on steam (+ Bioshock 1 DRM free from Humble).

Either way, I'm excited to see yet another great game on Linux.
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opticq: I still cannot believe I did not get the original Bioshock from humble DRM free.
Do you want it?
Post edited March 18, 2015 by realkman666
I think it's unlikely it'll become DRM-free as it's most likely was ported to linux so that it could natively run on SteamOS.

(Likely. UnlikelBLEARGH. Word salad, I know.)
Post edited March 18, 2015 by WesleyB