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"China" returned 33 posts
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iSteveyang: This game is controversial, it can be shelved in a game area that is not Chinese and just not offered to people in China to play.
The devs already removed the "controversial content"(one easter egg afaik), so there's no need to deny chinese customers from buying it, and yet your country still doesn't seem to want Gog and Steam to sell it.
Post edited December 17, 2020 by GamezRanker
low rated
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rick1981ireland: At the end of the day, it's just utterly disgusting to see GOG a Polish company bend the knee to a communist party that has carried out acts of true horror against its own people.

Forget about video games they are supporting a political party that has openly murdered people in the millions. How many Polish people were dumped into mass graves or burned in ovens by similar extreme political parties?

It's utterly sickening in the extreme.
[i]murdered people in the millions?[/I]
Are you talking about China's family planning policy or something else? Please make it clear, I remain skeptical of the malicious propaganda of the Western media to smear China.
Please point out the evidence.
high rated
China seems to be a new boogeyman at the moment.

Blame the West for making them powerful enough because Western Companies wanted Slave La- ahem I mean cheaper labour.
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Elmofongo: China seems to be a new boogeyman at the moment.

Blame the West for making them powerful enough because Western Companies wanted Slave La- ahem I mean cheaper labour.
You do understand that China is extending it's influence far past it's borders (as you can see, they can prevent a store in Poland from selling a game) and the values and goals of the Chinese communist dictatorship are opposite to everything we have?

It is not enough for the CCP that the entire Chinese people are subjugated and brainwashed mindless slaves to them, their goal is to subjugate the entire World.
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Elmofongo: China seems to be a new boogeyman at the moment.

Blame the West for making them powerful enough because Western Companies wanted Slave La- ahem I mean cheaper labour.
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aop: You do understand that China is extending it's influence far past it's borders (as you can see, they can prevent a store in Poland from selling a game) and the values and goals of the Chinese communist dictatorship are opposite to everything we have?

It is not enough for the CCP that the entire Chinese people are subjugated and brainwashed mindless slaves to them, their goal is to subjugate the entire World.
What are we gonna do about it then?

Boycott? Extreme economic ramifications. We have to somehow to convince the world's companies to stop doing business with China.

War? China has Nukes, and allies like Russia, and wars in general are just bloody, messy, and depressing.
Post edited December 17, 2020 by Elmofongo
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iSteveyang: This game is controversial, it can be shelved in a game area that is not Chinese and just not offered to people in China to play.
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GamezRanker: The devs already removed the "controversial content"(one easter egg afaik), so there's no need to deny chinese customers from buying it, and yet your country still doesn't seem to want Gog and Steam to sell it.
We Chinese gamers can't make the government censorship department put some controversial games back on the shelves. This stops players from playing the game all over the world, which is not good. So I think this is limited to China and does not prevent the GOG platform from shelving games in other non-Chinese regions. (What's controversial is not the egg, it's the insult to the current Chinese leader, which I personally don't think matters, but it's not up to me to say what the government does. And I found that the Chinese version of the wiki for this matter is very different from the English translation[url=https://zh.wikipedia.org/wiki/还愿_(游戏)][/url]. You can translate the Chinese version, mainly look at the "Controversy" section.)
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iSteveyang: I have never understood why in your eyes Chinese companies investing abroad is politically charged? While I don't support some overly strict censorship and bans by the Chinese government, games sold to Chinese players need to follow Chinese laws, and note that this only applies within China. This game is controversial, it can be shelved in a game area that is not Chinese and just not offered to people in China to play.
I have nothing against Western companies operating in China having to follow the Chinese laws.If GOG released this game on their site and blocked it in China I would be okay with it.

The problem here is that GOG isn't releasing the game at all, which makes me as non-Chinese person not living in China, affected by Chinese censorship. And that's something I can't tolerate. If Chinese censorship only stayed in China I wouldn't care, but in this case it's affecting people outside of China as well.
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iSteveyang: I have never understood why in your eyes Chinese companies investing abroad is politically charged? While I don't support some overly strict censorship and bans by the Chinese government, games sold to Chinese players need to follow Chinese laws, and note that this only applies within China. This game is controversial, it can be shelved in a game area that is not Chinese and just not offered to people in China to play.
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LordJF: I have nothing against Western companies operating in China having to follow the Chinese laws.If GOG released this game on their site and blocked it in China I would be okay with it.

The problem here is that GOG isn't releasing the game at all, which makes me as non-Chinese person not living in China, affected by Chinese censorship. And that's something I can't tolerate. If Chinese censorship only stayed in China I wouldn't care, but in this case it's affecting people outside of China as well.
I do , as we have moral high ground and our companies should follow those, same for our citizens , they should still follow our laws outside of our territories
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StingingVelvet: China's global financial influence is probably the number one threat to the West right now, honestly.
Instead of the attempted coup happening in the US after months of murderous mobs and mainstream media that looks like it's ran by a propaganda department?
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§pectre: Instead of the attempted coup happening in the US after months of murderous mobs and mainstream media that looks like it's ran by a propaganda department?
It's funny how Americans get yelled at for being too focused on the US a lot of the time, but then I use terms like "the West" and get a response as if I meant America specifically. Obviously every country has problems, and mine especially does right now believe me I know.

However as far as an overall battle for world influence goes, China right now is using its global financial power to prevent other countries from challenging it on anything. And when they're putting minorities in camps, trying to take over half an ocean and taking away the rights of their citizens even in outside territories, that's a very bad thing.
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§pectre: Instead of the attempted coup happening in the US after months of murderous mobs and mainstream media that looks like it's ran by a propaganda department?
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StingingVelvet: It's funny how Americans get yelled at for being too focused on the US a lot of the time, but then I use terms like "the West" and get a response as if I meant America specifically. Obviously every country has problems, and mine especially does right now believe me I know.
The rest of the west is following unless you think Britain,Israel or something else is the cause of all the current troubles. Internet companies are based in the US and look at what they have been allowed to get away with.
However as far as an overall battle for world influence goes, China right now is using its global financial power to prevent other countries from challenging it on anything. And when they're putting minorities in camps, trying to take over half an ocean and taking away the rights of their citizens even in outside territories, that's a very bad thing.
That's no different from any other large country except some others are falsely claiming more freedom.
I think the original post says it very well but the discussion has diverged from it.

The issue is primarily about GOG, not China, or even the government there: it's difficult to expect the Communist Party to say or do anything else than what they are saying and doing. When they prosecute any dissent, are they going to make an exception just for GOG? Of course not. Are they going to keep stirring up controversy whenever it suits their political interests? You bet they are. The important question though is: to what extent does it matter? If you're not in China, the answer is likely very little. Focusing on this aspect is missing the issue closer to home.

It's the Chinese government's prerogative to set the rules within their country. GOG is a business, not a political activist group, and if they want to operate in China, they should follow the laws there and probably take local sensitivities into account as well. I have no problem with that. Whether GOG should have this game listed in China is a separate question, and since it doesn't concern me directly, I'm fine with whatever they decide, either way.

What the Chinese Communist Party is up to is not a primary concern of mine either, for all I care they can do whatever they feel like as long as it doesn't affect me. I am however a customer and thus a stakeholder in GOG. And what GOG is telling us now is that basically anybody can get a game pulled if they complain enough. This creates a precedent that is the opening of Pandora's box. This time the backlash is from China, which is somewhat notorious for this kind of knee-jerk reaction, so it's easy to focus on the low-hanging fruit. Next time it could just as well be someone else though. To avoid the situation from repeating itself, the response can't be just about who's doing the complaining this particular time.

I do not blame external actors for trying to exert pressure on GOG: people will try to do all kinds of things as long as they can get away with them, as this is basic human nature, further propelled by organizational dynamics. But just because someone, somewhere (in this case, the Communist Party in China) demands something, doesn't mean that GOG should automatically bend over backwards to accommodate them. On the contrary, I'd expect GOG to listen to their customers and potential customers before they start pandering to outsiders, especially if these are just some randoms on social media. That they are in fact doing the very opposite is where the root of the problem is, for me. What's more, that they shamelessly claim their decision was due to popular demand is even more aggravating.

I am not looking to overthrow the Communist Party in China, however neither do I want to endorse it. The way GOG has played this, any purchase with them is effectively such an endorsement at this point, unless they backtrack on this decision. This is self-inflicted damage for GOG as it was possible to preempt such a development in a number of ways. However, now, GOG has to make a clear choice: do you or do you not stand for censorship?
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Turbo-Beaver: I am not looking to overthrow the Communist Party in China, however neither do I want to endorse it. The way GOG has played this, any purchase with them is effectively such an endorsement at this point, unless they backtrack on this decision. This is self-inflicted damage for GOG as it was possible to preempt such a development in a number of ways. However, now, GOG has to make a clear choice: do you or do you not stand for censorship?
Gogs supports twitch which supports political censorship where were the complaints on that?
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iSteveyang: I have never understood why in your eyes Chinese companies investing abroad is politically charged? While I don't support some overly strict censorship and bans by the Chinese government, games sold to Chinese players need to follow Chinese laws, and note that this only applies within China.
Yes, it should only apply within China. But it doesn't. Look at how much pressure China exerts to ban the game worldwide, just because the Chairman is insulted by the Winnie-the-Pooh comparison. (which frankly is an insult to Winnie-the-Pooh, who is a very lovable character). Tencent is backed by the Chinese government and exerts influence via Epic. The Chinese government threatens boycotts of companies that don't comply with their demands - even if those demands don't concern the Chinese interior market but the global market.

I would have no problem with GOG not selling that game in China. But that they don't sell it at all, globally, just because one person in China is insulted, and that they then pretend it was due to complaints from some 'gamers', is just weak.
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Lifthrasil: The Chinese government threatens boycotts of companies that don't comply with their demands - even if those demands don't concern the Chinese interior market but the global market.
In this case it's not even boycott that loomed, getting noticed would have been enough:

https://www.theguardian.com/games/2020/dec/17/taiwanese-horror-game-pulled-from-sale-again-after-backlash-in-china

Short version, GOG does business in China, but basically illegally. So they need to stay under the radar. Releasing a game like that would have been like attempting a break-and-enter wearing a bright red suit and a bell around the neck...

Actually the announcement could have been enough to alert the Chinese watchdogs, which would be very bad for GOG... the only upside would be that they then could release Devotion without a problem here, because the damage is done.

So what's better: GOG getting whipped out of China, leaving the field to Steam and Epic who both are in bed with the dictators - but get the game here, or GOG, with some luck, avoiding the attention from Chinese authorities and keeping their small DRM-free foothold in that country?

It's complex situation, there are no easy answers.