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FTL: Advanced EditionAnyone else think 90% of weapon "upgrades" are actually downgrades?(43 posts)(43 posts)
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Posted September 16, 2012
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tpaivani: Next easiest is coming back from 1 HP - can happen naturally and not too difficult to cause in purpose either. Note that you can flee a battle, no need to let the enemy to beat you to 1 HP and then win.
Meteorite fields are also good for that : each meteorite reduces your hull by one unit, so it's easy to stay in control. Just carefully turn your shield off and back on, to not get overwhelmed with fires, breaches, etc.

Also yes, the Torus B made me laugh. It's a one-man ship, for a solitary adventure. Keeping everything open is a great idea. But I'd just regret not having the bonus of a trained crew manning the different systems...
Posted September 16, 2012
I'm not sure having just got the game Friday, but I've noticed in later sectors shots get resisted on hits occasionally. I wonder if this only affects the lower their weapons.

The Vortex (Torus B) is fun. I've yet to get far with it, because it plays so much differently.
Posted September 16, 2012
Engines and pilots allow for dodging weapons completely which is what you mean, I think. You can do it as well. A powered upgraded engine+experience pilot+experienced engine room guy can dodge all weapon shots very often.
Posted September 16, 2012
Weapons pre-igniter is awesome and made me awesomely powerful on that one time I managed to get it. :). especially because you don't waste scrap on repairs thanks to it (take out their weapons first).

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Telika: Anyway, my tiny lasers themselves were not doing much to that well-shielded ship. I don't think the OP's point is very valid near the end of the game.
I explicitly said that the Burst Laser II is an exception while burst laser 3 is unviable.
Burst 1 is 2 energy for 2 shots at 11 second charge. Burst 2 is 2 energy for 3 shots at 12 second charge. That is the most significant upgrade in the game I have seen yet as it actually increases your DPS rather then decreasing it. As well as being able to penetrate 3 shields (1.35 on average against max dodge enemy though)
Of coursing mixing the two is a disaster because they will go out of sync due to that 1 second difference unless you fire them manually (which will lose you precious seconds)

4x1 weapons will rock until late game but you should upgrade some of them to 2 energy weapons.

The problem is that almost every "upgrade" reduces DPS per energy significantly. A typical upgrade is 50% longer charge time 50% more damage for 100% more energy or 100% more damage for 200% more energy. This is a massive downgrade in terms of DPS.

The only reason to upgrade is because you have only 4 slots. But the fact you max out at 8 energy for weapons means that 4 energy weapons are unusable and 3 energy weapons are highly unoptimal (can be used in conjuction with 1 energy weapons but its better to have 2x2 then 1x3 + 1x1)
Best playthrough I had was 3xBurst Laser II and 1xIon 1
Shredded the final boss like wet tissue paper.
2xBurst laser 2 + 1xion 2 (3 energy) + some 1 energy weapon would also probably be very good.

Problem is in FINDING the weapons you need.
Drones and missiles can be effective but run out too easily. So you must be able to beat normal enemies with them to save them for the big fights.
And drones cost an arm and a leg to add to your ship.

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cdnred: I'm not sure having just got the game Friday, but I've noticed in later sectors shots get resisted on hits occasionally. I wonder if this only affects the lower their weapons.
One of the augments allows a 15% chance of resisting weapon's damage.
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Telika: Now one should also consider that you have only 4 weapon slots, so, 4x1 is still waeker than 4x3 weapon power.
How are you powering 4x3 weapons with a total of 8 energy max? you are going to be powering 2x3
Which incidentally is even worse then 4x1.... but 2x3 + 1x2 =8 so that is the ideal configuration for a ship with only 3 slots. And a non ideal but still workable config for others...
Now the Burst Laser 3, that stuff is trash. It fires 4 shots at once, like 2 burst laser 1s would. But it has much higher recharge rate for worse DPS coupled with requiring 4 energy to their 2 (1 energy per weapon)

If I had to sum up my issues:
1. "upgrades" to weapons significantly reduce their efficiency. (DPS per energy)
2. Shields are unbalanced.
3. "upgrades" generally take up too much energy to be used viably.
4. A weapon cannot be partially powered so 3/4 energy means your 4 energy weapon is completely down.
5. mixing varied weapons suffers from inability to group weapons to fire in tandem. (which requires a lot of pain manually firing them in tandem).
Post edited September 16, 2012 by taltamir
Posted September 16, 2012
Heavy Laser 1 is garbage no matter what your style is. 1 point of shield damage, 2 points vs hull, 9 sec reload. It looked especially pathetic next to 2 Burst Mk2. They fired a bit slower, but they could actually hurt. Heavy is not even fast enough to prevent a single point of shield from regenerating. Why is it in the game at all?
Posted September 16, 2012
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grviper: Heavy Laser 1 is garbage no matter what your style is. 1 point of shield damage, 2 points vs hull, 9 sec reload. It looked especially pathetic next to 2 Burst Mk2. They fired a bit slower, but they could actually hurt. Heavy is not even fast enough to prevent a single point of shield from regenerating. Why is it in the game at all?
If I am not mistaken, all those 2x to hull damage weapons only give the bonus if you are attacking an empty room with no systems... Which is a waste because you should be taking out the enemies shields and weapons and drones and nav ability (so they can't dodge weapons fire)
That being said, I think the weapon in question has a chance of causing hull breach.
EDIT: Yep, confirmed it just now, heavy lasers have a chance at hull breach. So if you can get past the enemies shields they can be useful... problem is that so many alternative weapons depend on enemy shields being down and those regenerate like crazy
Post edited September 16, 2012 by taltamir
Posted September 16, 2012
i love the mk1 heavy lazers, the trick is to NOT use autofire.

i use a single burst lazer to weaken the shields, and just as the last shot fires, pause the action, target 1, 2 (or 3 if you can get them) CHARGED mk1 heavy lazers at the enemy ship, and watch the mayhem ensue. if the shields have been knocked out temporarily, you can slam a LOT Of damage home all at once.

The same applies to beam weapons, autofire is NOT your friend. with some timing its quite easy to temporarily knock out the shields, and use the beams to tear up the enemy.
Posted September 16, 2012
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Spellcast: i love the mk1 heavy lazers, the trick is to NOT use autofire.

i use a single burst lazer to weaken the shields, and just as the last shot fires, pause the action, target 1, 2 (or 3 if you can get them) CHARGED mk1 heavy lazers at the enemy ship, and watch the mayhem ensue. if the shields have been knocked out temporarily, you can slam a LOT Of damage home all at once.
Only in early game, wait till they have shields 4, drones that can shoot down your lasers, and 55% dodge chance.
The same applies to beam weapons, autofire is NOT your friend.
Autofire is essential, but works very poorly with some weapons due the shields balance issues. However firing all shots manually and waiting until all weapons are charged loses precious reload time and its easy easy to mess up.
with some timing its quite easy to temporarily knock out the shields, and use the beams to tear up the enemy
Only in very early game. this strategy simply doesn't work in late game.
Posted September 16, 2012
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taltamir: Only in very early game. this strategy simply doesn't work in late game.
I disagree completely, I have made it to sector 8 repeatedly with this tactic, and taken out the enemy flagship once, (Would have gotten it a second time, but got killed by boarding drones on the second fight with it because i had no luck getting additional crew during that run)

oddly the win was on normal, but the loss on easy, go figure.

depending on your playstyle autofire is the waste, tightly synching your shots in the right order allows you to overwhelm the very defenses you seem to think will automatically beat an energy layout.
Post edited September 16, 2012 by Spellcast
Posted September 16, 2012
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mpartel: I wonder if a weaponless boarding party based build is workable.
Yes, actually. You unlock a ship with a Type B entirely dedicated to this. It's crazy fun to play with, and throwing in ion weapons just makes it even better.
Posted September 16, 2012
There's more than one actually. I know of a mantis ship and a secret hidden race's ship. There might be one more.
Posted September 17, 2012
Gahh... ***k Torus B! Drone repair priorities cannot be adjusted. Heavy Ion + Heavy Laser do nothing against shields >1. Also, restarting a shut down drone apparently costs parts, just like making a new one.
Still, it IS possible to fly with depressurized hull. Does wonders against boarders, but 8% of oxygen does not leave much room for error. Getting wounded pilot to sickbay while restoring the air supply there is also a pain.
Posted September 17, 2012
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Spellcast: depending on your playstyle autofire is the waste, tightly synching your shots in the right order allows you to overwhelm the very defenses you seem to think will automatically beat an energy layout.
That's not what I think, don't put words in my mouth. Tightly syncing your shots is a must as I EXPLICITLY STATED.

However it is better to have chosen a weapon layout where syncing happens naturally (copies of the exact same weapon with identical charge rate or couple with weapons like ion or missiles which do not require syncing in most fights).

And what I said doesn't work is the idea you can realistically drop enemy shields and then hit them with a beam weapon. Timed manually.
This works great at first but at the end game the combination of 55% miss chance, defensive drones that shoot out lasers, and level 4 shields with ridiculous recharge rate makes this an impossibility.
Post edited September 17, 2012 by taltamir
Posted September 17, 2012
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Telika: Indeed. Just made a run with the Red Tail (Kestrel type B), and the four cheap light lasers seemed overpowered until end-game, where they proved completely useless.
I only unlocked it yesterday... you do get the benefit of 4 guns in natural sync, but basic lasers are such bad weapons :).
Its burst lasers that are awesome not basic lasers. (specifically burst 2 which is a huge upgrade over burst 1; most upgradish upgrade in the game)

On the plus side, the kestrel B has a better internal layout.
Post edited September 17, 2012 by taltamir
Posted September 17, 2012
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grviper: Gahh... ***k Torus B! Drone repair priorities cannot be adjusted.
I too find this troublesome. I'd like to be able to direct them, when I need to, and let them do their thing when finished.
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FTL: Advanced EditionAnyone else think 90% of weapon "upgrades" are actually downgrades?(43 posts)(43 posts)
(43 posts)