triphopscott: dtgreene: thanks for the detailed heads up, nice to know about potential broken chars. and how to avoid the pitfalls

triphopscott: dtgreene: thanks for the detailed heads up, nice to know about potential broken chars. and how to avoid the pitfalls

dtgreene: Thank you, but do you have any explanation for why my second post in this topic, which I put a lot of effort into, is "low rated"?

dtgreene: Here are a few other pitfalls for some of these games:

Curse of the Azure Bonds: Do not dual class right away, as the game throws you into a dungeon with no way to train to gain levels, and if you just dual classed, you will have a bad time and forfeit much of the XP you gain. (I consider this to be poor game design, much like the other pitfalls I mentioned.) Also, I don't recommend taking the same party through the series, especially since multi-class characters are good and fun in Pool of Radiance, but useless later on. (Taking your Secret of the Silver Blades party into Pools of Darkness isn't a bad idea, however.)

Might and Magic 2: There is one very nasty event (that the game gives you a non-specific warning about) that will ruin your party if you're greedy. If you think you might have hit that event, rest and check your stats before you save (resting is important, as the stat change won't be visible if you check before you rest; yes, the game designers were really evil here).

Might and Magic 3: You are probably going to want a Druid or Ranger in your party as only those classes can use the walk on water spell (which is important given that the world consists of islands in an ocean). Also, if you use certain mechanical devices in a strange high-tech underworld, you might want to check your stats (age in particular) before you save.

World of Xeen: Make sure your party has at least one Archer or Sorcerer, as the Teleport spell is mandatory and can't be used by a Druid or Ranger.

Bard's Tale series: Rogues are useless in 1 and 2, but mandatory (and useful) in 3. You need at least one bard or spellcaster in 1, at least one spellcaster in 2, and 3 requires a Rogue, an Archmage, a Chronomancr, and at least one of Warrior, Paladin, or Geomancer.

Final Fantasy: If you play the original NES version, be aware that each spellcaster can only learn 3 spells per spell level, and there are some spells that are defective due to bad programming (they either don't work, only work when used by enemies, or have the opposite effect). In particular, stay away from LOCK, TMPR, LOK2, SABR, and XFER, as those spells don't work properly. Also, AMUT, while functional (IIRC), isn't that useful because almost no enemies use silence attacks. I could also mentioned that the game isn't exactly what I would call balanced; Fighters are probably the best class, and Thieves are pretty much useless. (Note that the PS1 remake fixes the defective spells, and later versions drastically change the mechanics, fixing class balance but ruining the difficulty.)

dtgreene: About some other early cRPGs:

Ultima: Overhead view, less emphasis on combat (especially in the 4th game onwards), combat in 3-6 is on a grid (but you can only move one square per turn, making ranged weapons far more powerful than melee weapons). Series is sometimes too simulationist, with mechanics like needing food and (starting with 4) having to mix reagents to cast even the simplest of spells appearing. Ultima 7 is strongly overrated; the combat is trash and the game requires you to manually feed your characters (in a game with a terrible inventory system). From 4 onward, the games really aren't dungeon crawlers, even if you do have to occasionally go into dungeons.

Wizardry: First-person dungeon crawlers. Has healing issues similar to Pools of Radiance at first, but you do eventually get better healing spells, which helps. Game can be rather harsh, with perma-death (and resurrection can fail), enemies that can instant-kill as soon as the second dungeon level (in 1), and enemies that can drain levels from your characters (though, unlike in Pool of Radiance or Dungeon Hack, they are more of a late game thing). Do not start with 2, 3, or 4; 2 and 3 require importing characters from 1 (and 2 requires your party to be at least level 13), and 4 (which plays very differently than the rest of the series, with more adventure game elements and less RPG) was designed with the expectation that the player would already be an expert.

Might and Magic: First person perspective (like Wizardry), but the world is more open (like Ultima). Still more of a dungeon crawler, but there's an overworld, and exploration is not as restricted as in a typical JRPG. Sometimes you can even go into a high level area with a novice party and come out victorious, though you might need help from things like stat-boosting fountains (which are a staple of the series). Combat is actually best in 1 and 2; in 3-5, combat has been simplified and the game doesn't provide as much feedback (no damage numbers, for example).

Bard's Tale: Like Wizardry, but with an actual town (and wilderness in 2 and 3), and without some of the harsher aspects of Wizardry. You eventually get a cheap spell that fully heals the party, and the perma-death mechanics of Wizardry are not present (resurrection always works); level draining is still present. One thing to note: Avoid the DOS and Amiga versions of Bard's Tale 3; those versions have too many bugs to be enjoyable. (Stick with the Apple 2 or Commodore 64 version for that game.)

Wasteland: Overhead view, science fiction setting, and game mechanics that are not D&D-based. (They're actually similar to that of an obscure tabletop RPG called Tunnels and Trolls.) Skills improve through usage, though not all skills are balanced (some skills are only useful early, while others are only usable late game).

Dragon Wars: Quite different from Bard's Tale, less emphasis on dungeon crawling and gaining strength, more emphasis on exploration. One major difference is that treasure is found rather than won after battles.

Dragon Quest/Warrior: The oldest JRPG series out there. The very first game is open world, with the main barrier to progress being the strength of the enemies. You will need to spend hours leveling up (less if playing one of the remakes). The later games in the series take a more linear structure (though every now and then the linearity decreases). Many of the complexities found in early WRPGs are not present here; for example, there's no stealing, no aging (or level draining), and no attacking arbitrary townspeople (as you can in the Ultima series). Overhead perspective, even in dungeons. One difference between this game and most early WRPGs is that attacks usually hit, even early on; damage output, rather than accuracy, is the main offensive benefit of gaining levels. Note that, in DQ1, you only get one character; DQ3 gives you four characters, and you can create 3 of them (one of them is always the hero(ine).

Final Fantasy: The original is not too different from early Dragon Quest games, albeit more linear than DQ1. Magic system resembles Wizardry. Note that this series is famous for changing its mechanics between entries; FF2 (the Famicom one, not the one that was released on the SNES) is notable for having a non-XP leveling system where stats increase based off what happens in battle. (Note that FF2 is *not* a good place to start in the series, and I wouldn't recommend FF8 as a first FF game either.) Interestingly enough, FF1's mechanics resemble D&D more than DQ1's; you will miss a lot at the start (like in most early WRPGs), and spells actually use saving throw mechanics (with attack spells doing half damage on a successful save).