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low rated
I had a lot of problem with hardware, but that is a separated point as the game was designed for older architectures and they had to make their own graphical motor.
The history, is good, the way is told is very well executed, the information you can pick from newspaper, gossip and other places make the game immersive, not doubt, by history this game is amazing. But that is all. The rest is clunky at best.

Sure, the game is not "kill everyone" so, you can't bright doing that (Though strangely they give you skills for that) but is not consistent. The cops baston sometime can make down from one hit sometimes no (Even with 2-3 skills points). The dart weapons with sedatives are useless for sedate the enemies. you hack the computers but is not clear if the cameras will work for you now (you learn the hard way is not the case), or if the automatic guns needs the cameras for shoot, is very dumb that after you hack a PC leaving the bar time almost fully, the next time is at zero and you need to wait for hack it again.

With certain tactics the weapons skills become almost useless, medicine, swim, environment are seeing by many as useless (Even in this forum)... So, the most "famous" skills system is a collection half not-useful skills but everyone love it...

The GUI ... OUCH for me is very clunky, why I need to change manually weapons to tools for open locks if is going to be made multiple times? (Maybe Bethesda make see this as poor design, as they solved the problem with some elegance in the elders scrolls series) Even worse, why the meele weapon with animation (like the laser blade) restart after conversations AND the enemy have the sword is ready for action. Lets not forget, that you need to have a record of what are each code you get, due the log is very poor (and if the game has emphasis for tracking the codes, is sad they don't help with that)

Your augments... Ok, they don't bright too much , but what is very strange, you has a augs that reduce the energy consumption from the other augs BUT you need to activate it, why is not passive like the transmission augs ?
You can hide the bodies for avoiding get detect (Or at least I think that is the purpose) but oh surprise, you need first to take all their inventory, if yours is already full the bodies are untouchable. You can buy items but you can't sell, returning to the game from the main menu is hard (one single ESC key should be enough even by that time). Those examples are proof the design of the game was poor.

The enemy IA is poor (more than poor), very easy to avoid them, but suddenly in some levels, they are very smart and find you so easy (or better say, they spawn behind you), even if you are invisible behind a box (Well, Honk Kong is explained due the special system in all the place but New york?) Most funny, Hell Kitchen, the people who made the manhunt got distracted in one point, and magically they knew by which hole I was to get out (and I'm very sure, they just spawn meters ahead of me), and for a game where you don't kill everyone, is very funny to see that is impossible pass by their side being invisible as they stuck you (Motor limitation, but still sad).

I'm the hell kitchen (by third time) trying to get enough patience to finish the game but is hard (and lets be honest, I'm very sure how is going to end the game as the history has a little of cliche, but maybe that is because has been almost 14 years). But this third visit bring the worst of this game: scenarios are repetitive. If Dragon Age 2 was bad game due that, this one is the same. So, why is so sacred? why has a full 5 stars? What I'm missing in this game?
Post edited October 31, 2014 by Belsirk
high rated
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Belsirk: why has a full 5 stars? What I'm missing in this game?
If you cannot figure it out until now, than you won't in the future. And you definitely won't by US telling you "why it has five stars". I'm not trolling or something. I'm serious. This question of yours cannot possibly be answered in a straight way like asking for solving 1+1.

But the reason might be those you mentioned yourself in your second sentence. Maybe it doesn't answer your question but help you to *understand* people, especially those who grew up with that game: not everybody *needs* flawless gameplay. For myself I really enjoyed Dragon Age 2 besides its MANY flaws. And back then people were more accustomed to "clonky" gameplay (Gothic 1, anyone?). You've just dealt with it. It was recognized but tolerated in favor of its story, subquests, philosophical questions (which I haven't understand at half back then, but later on as I was getting older) and so on. Cyberpunk game with an almost emotionness bad ass protagonist running around with implants? The possibilities to avoid conflicts and solving your missions. The fact you could write your own notes and even on the maps. The dark and gritty atmosphere. Not to mention the soundtrack. That was pretty awesome back then.

All that makes DX an old time classic. Most people who played it back then think exactly like this. And old time classics simply tend to get 5 stars.

The skill system isn't the most famous at all. Nobody ever had said that. But instead of improving they ripped it off completeley. And it does come in handy. You're at the beginning, fighting very "low" enemies. They will get stronger as you progress and your weapons need to do more damage for easier combats. If you want to reduce the sway of your sniper rifle you have to skill. OR have to mod your rifle. It is up to you. But damage is only improved by skill. If your damage/skill is high enough you can bust doors with a melee weapon. There are no useless skills. There are just skills with lesser use but the don't cost as much neither. Swimming is beneficial in Hong Kong and some later missions. Same goes for Environment. It also increased duration of bullet proof vests and other items and can be quite usefull since those items are depleted very fast. Its missions differs a lot although you revisit some places but that's something different because you always have different objective. And Hell's Kitchen is the only place you revisit.

So in conclusion: You are not missing anything. You "failure" is to play it several years "too late". But even back then there were people not enjoying it. That's just how it is with videogames. You're not missing anything. It's simply not your game.
Post edited October 31, 2014 by Filben
high rated
Upon release it was a very original and immersive game. At the time, it was definitely a 5-star game.

Today it is objectively speaking very dated with lots of wasted design elements (basically the whole character building and augmentation system) and underwhelming gameplay features (shooting and AI mainly), but I still play it every couple of years and enjoy it just as much as back in late 2000.

Why do I and others like me still play this game? Why do we still consider it a 5-star game? You may be surprised to hear that knowing all the twists and turns of the story, knowing the secrets and knowing the exploitable bugs somehow makes the game even more enjoyable! I'm still discovering new routes through some parts of the game over a decade since my first playthrough. I'm also having a lot of fun dissecting every spoken or written line, finding entire scripted sequences I have never discovered before. The game also has a very unique atmosphere that I feel has never been equalled by other games. The things people say and the conversations you can participate in or overhear have a kind of maturity and boldness you just don't get to hear in games. I don't mean "mature" as in having people talk about gruesome murders or child prostitution, but serious without being preachy talk about governments, surveillance and revolution without going for the easy emotional buttons. I don't feel like the developers were trying to push a political message, but rather that all the political talk were just part of the game universe and they handled it perfectly. This makes it enjoyable for me to revisit the Deus Ex universe and sneak around while taking in the atmosphere and checking out all the secrets I've learned about from thoroughly dissecting the game.

And as I said, I'm still discovering new things every time I play or read about the game. Ask me if I care as much about the Call of Duty universes or to hack'n'slash my way through another D&D type fantasy CRPG.
high rated
It has five stars because the rating scale tops out at five.

I played it for the first time a year or two back, having missed my opportunities when it was a new game.

As someone who has been gaming in earnest since the mid-80s, playing this old game was still a "WOW!" moment for me. Does it create some gripes that are addressed by the newer way of doing things in today's games? Sure. But Deus Ex has more story and personality than most other games I've played, and I felt immersed in a way that hasn't happened in a long time.
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Belsirk: why has a full 5 stars? What I'm missing in this game?
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Filben: If you cannot figure it out until now, than you won't in the future. And you definitely won't by US telling you "why it has five stars". I'm not trolling or something. I'm serious. This question of yours cannot possibly be answered in a straight way like asking for solving 1+1.

...

So in conclusion: You are not missing anything. You "failure" is to play it several years "too late". But even back then there were people not enjoying it. That's just how it is with videogames. You're not missing anything. It's simply not your game.
Let finish there then, I personally love Planescape Torment as was made, but this game... nope, both of them I played recently thanks to Gog, both of them focus totally in history sacrificing many aspects of the gameplay. I'll finish, after all the history is good, will play the second part (as already bought it) and then will forget the first one until one day I can't remember why didn't like and giving a new opportunity.
Look on the bright side: at least you didn't buy it full price way-back-when and then find out it isn't your thing. ; )
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HereForTheBeer: Look on the bright side: at least you didn't buy it full price way-back-when and then find out it isn't your thing. ; )
Amen!
There are a lot of faults with DX1; Even when it came out it was friggin' ugly and the interface was clunky, but the cyberpunky theme, conspiracy story and environment drew you in, and the gameplay was something rarely seen.

I don't mean the basic mechanics - For something based on the Unreal engine the gunplay was bloody atrocious - But the fact that you were presented a goal and were, not only left to figure out how to do it, but also could do it in multiple ways, and that is what I liked about it. Go this way or that way, kill or don't kill - It was up to you!

And your skills and mods affected that; Even the much maligned swimming skill would open up avenues that you wouldn't otherwise be able to use (Well, unless you had several rebreathers!)

It's for that reason I didn't hate DX2 as much as most other people, and really enjoyed DX3 (FINALLY! A useful tranq weapon! As you say the one in DX1 was useless for stealth takedowns)

To me it was a triumph of story and gameplay over graphics, which is what everybody is leaning towards these days and is why we have so many modern games are crap despite their beauty.

Oh, and the smegging sound track! Not only was it great, but it had a primitive iMUSE-like dynamic so it could change depending on what was happening.

I would just hand about in the UNATCO building and, later, Wan Chai Market just to enjoy the music... (Well, until I extracted the XM's for use with XMPlay XD)
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Belsirk: I'm very sure how is going to end the game as the history has a little of cliche
-1/10

Try again.
This is kind of a classic rhetorical question, but okay I'll bite.

I didn't play Deus Ex when it was new. GoG was my first opportunity (thanks again for that) and it rivals many modern games in terms of design, writing and presentation. I am not a frequent PC gamer and I was worried that the interface was going to pose the game's biggest challenge. It doesn't. Anyone who claims Deus Ex's interface is poor has obviously never played System Shock.

The game just let's you PLAY. Which is - sadly - woefully unlike many modern games. The freedom to experiment and have fun in such a tightly designed environment surpasses any game I have ever played. And it's a brilliant blend of roleplaying game and FPS action. But it's simulated 'skill based' action, not 'twitch' action and not in a way that feels arbitrary or handicapped. Also the game let's you build your character your way without ever encountering a situation where the game forces a particular challenge you're not equipped to handle.

Basically, Deus Ex's design is just *considerate*. Expressing a reverence to the player that so many other games are too full of themselves to even acknowledge - especially more recent ones.

A lot of Deus Ex's design might feel archaic - maybe more so by today's standards - but I think it's survived the passing of time more than adequately. The AI is pretty remarkable too. It's more advanced than you usually see in games and certainly competent, but you were expecting it to be smarter? It's not dumb, that's for sure and many of the AI behaviors can be quite unique and emergent.

I don't know how anyone can find Deus Ex to be lacking to any degree. If it's just not the sort of game one can appreciate then fine, but to claim that it is overrated, well ... that's just like your opinion, man.
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eVinceW21: The game just let's you PLAY. Which is - sadly - woefully unlike many modern games.
So true. I just realise that by playing Fallout New Vegas. And having played all Bethesda titles since Morrowind it's often a pain in the ass. I feel like I spend half the time in inventories and interface-screens instead of play. Some might like this and find this as part of "gameplay". But I don't. And I don't like it.
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Cyker: There are a lot of faults with DX1; Even when it came out it was friggin' ugly and the interface was clunky, but the cyberpunky theme, conspiracy story and environment drew you in, and the gameplay was something rarely seen.
Maybe another problem for me is that the cyber-punk theme is just... bleh, but as you said, the game strong point is the story and the inmersion to the world. If you are wondering, I bought this trilogy due the amazing reviews they had, and because in the moment I was unable to do it (Bless Gog).
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Cyker: It's for that reason I didn't hate DX2 as much as most other people, and really enjoyed DX3 (FINALLY! A useful tranq weapon! As you say the one in DX1 was useless for stealth takedowns)
I support you, I finished the DX1, DX2 and currently playing DX3, and this is my favorite as has a very good history, well made interface and a good use of skills (and is a very well made pre-quel). The DX2 didn't was so bad, they (EIDOS) tried to fix many things from the DX1's GUI but they overdid and the arc quality is lesser than the other 2 games (and the voices actors, that truly kill everything).
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Cyker: To me it was a triumph of story and gameplay over graphics, which is what everybody is leaning towards these days and is why we have so many modern games are crap despite their beauty.
That is my problem, the history and replayibility are amazing, if you tolerate the GUI, thing I didn't, to me the GUI is bad not by hardware limitations but by poor choices from the developers. (And the fact that after a conversation your sword is down killed my patience).
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Kyojinmaru: I didn't play Deus Ex when it was new. GoG was my first opportunity (thanks again for that) and it rivals many modern games in terms of design, writing and presentation. I am not a frequent PC gamer and I was worried that the interface was going to pose the game's biggest challenge. It doesn't. Anyone who claims Deus Ex's interface is poor has obviously never played System Shock.
And with that, Bioshock is outside from my whislist forever :P
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Kyojinmaru: A lot of Deus Ex's design might feel archaic - maybe more so by today's standards - but I think it's survived the passing of time more than adequately. The AI is pretty remarkable too. It's more advanced than you usually see in games and certainly competent, but you were expecting it to be smarter? It's not dumb, that's for sure and many of the AI behaviors can be quite unique and emergent.
I have my doubts. The inconsistency with my play make feel like that, even a simple note saying "the eyes of the augs working for MJ12 have X-ray all the time" could had helped, but that is lacking, and the problem come from normal enemies to augs one. The IA from DX3 feel more consistent, maybe is explained by the skills for discovering how the IA (the enemies) is working for find you.


I'm going to eat my word about the end of the history, was obvious one of the 3, but not all of them. The Helios IA ending didn't see coming at all. Though, not sure if is important as the 3 of them are cannon as one for the DX2 (JC Denton is very chaoitc )
Post edited November 12, 2014 by Belsirk
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Belsirk: And with that, Bioshock is outside from my whislist forever :P
I hope not. Great game with well organised interface, neat graphics (even for today's standards) flawless shooter gameplay and interessting story and plot-twist.
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Belsirk: [...] The inconsistency with my play make feel like that, even a simple note saying "the eyes of the augs working for MJ12 have X-ray all the time" could had helped, but that is lacking, and the problem come from normal enemies to augs one. [...]
Let me guess, you're trying to sneak by walking while standing upright. All AI enemies, augmented or not, can barely see you if you are crouching. Even better, crouch-walking is completely silent. Compare this to walking upright which makes noise, is slower than crouch-walking and makes enemies spot you at relatively great distances.

If you start crouching all the time and try not to make any noise you will find that the AI is consistently oblivious and predictable.
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Belsirk: [...] The inconsistency with my play make feel like that, even a simple note saying "the eyes of the augs working for MJ12 have X-ray all the time" could had helped, but that is lacking, and the problem come from normal enemies to augs one. [...]
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Sufyan: Let me guess, you're trying to sneak by walking while standing upright. All AI enemies, augmented or not, can barely see you if you are crouching. Even better, crouch-walking is completely silent. Compare this to walking upright which makes noise, is slower than crouch-walking and makes enemies spot you at relatively great distances.

If you start crouching all the time and try not to make any noise you will find that the AI is consistently oblivious and predictable.
Nope, I sneak crouched and moving by the shadows reaching their backs with baston or rod. The problem: suddenly some enemies appears /spawns behind you and very closed, you don't has time even to hear their footsteps (This begin to happens after you join to the terrorist and in certain mission). And other times, were an enmie didn't see you, one MORE FAR is able to see you. The best example is with the Hell kitchen, were they try to sneak you with the bugglar, if you use one entrance and try leaving by the other one, they suddenly appear some meter ahead of you (And more funny, as their are manny you can't pass by their side cloaked).

I already learn the limitation of the IA in the enemies from the firsts levels, and suddenly everything change with random units. if that happened with the augs, robots or special trops, would be OK with the history, but happens even with the basic soldier, and not always. That is why, I see the AI as inconsistent.

P.d. another odd thing, a hit with the baston when the enemie already hostile don't knock them, I can't find any reference in the manual about the extra damage bonus by sneaking them (although I could missed the line). More annoying, if you don't hit exactly where the game wants you don't knock them, even with the rod ( with the Augs that is ok)