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nmorello11: <Troll shit>
I wondered how long it would take for the worms to appear.
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Hickory: The cry of the ignorant, uninformed dullard. Boring!
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nmorello11: Look, someone disagreed with Hickory to the slightest degree! Time for him to start fighting with and insulting people!

https://youtu.be/Nkb6jex6-80
No, it's my fault. I decided to poke poor Hickory to see if he has any game. Still not sure at this point. He seems to be waking up, very, very sloooooowly.
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nmorello11: Look, someone disagreed with Hickory to the slightest degree! Time for him to start fighting with and insulting people!

https://youtu.be/Nkb6jex6-80
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richlind33: No, it's my fault. I decided to poke poor Hickory to see if he has any game. Still not sure at this point. He seems to be waking up, very, very sloooooowly.
Actually Hickory not that bad. I find him more tolerable than most on this forum. He at least shows intelligence and maturity. Rare qualities.
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Hickory: Yes it does. It tells them exactly where the spell is going to land, including AOE. There's no such target reticule painted for arrows (or guns in other games). It's walking them through exactly where to aim, but not only that, the aiming is taken away; it's done for the player.
Isn't the area of effect for spells known in advance when playing tabletop D&D? Genuinely curious, I've never actually played the tabletop game myself. If someone casts a fireball, do they know exactly where it will hit (or at least how big the explosion will be)? Or is there variance in it based on die rolls? I had always heard that The Temple of Elemental Evil was one of the most faithful reproductions of the tabletop rules, so I assumed that its indicator of area of effect spells was mimicking the knowledge a tabletop player would have.

Anyway, when I played Baldur's Gate long ago I had no idea what I was doing, and I remember mages not feeling that powerful. Spells like Fireball seemed like they would be obvious choices, but the area of effect was so huge that I was rarely able to use them without hitting allies (they seemed to affect almost the entire screen). From reading this thread, it sounds like I should have done a lot more scouting, and initiated battles from farther way with area of effect spells like Fireball and then switched to other spells when in close range. And I should have paid a lot more attention to other spells that don't do direct damage but are useful in other ways.

I do remember using Magic Missile a lot at high levels though. I think it got up to five projectiles per cast and therefore did a lot of damage, without harming any allies who were in the fray.

One day I will replay the game and try to pay more attention to all the different options available. Even though I played through the whole game back then, it never really "clicked" for me, but I'm hoping it will on a future playthrough.

(If you are curious: yes, my first playthrough involved LOTS of reloading saved games after losing battles because I was terrible at them)
Post edited August 10, 2016 by Waltorious
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Waltorious: Isn't the area of effect for spells known in advance when playing tabletop D&D? Genuinely curious, I've never actually played the tabletop game myself. If someone casts a fireball, do they know exactly where it will hit (or at least how big the explosion will be)? Or is there variance in it based on die rolls? I had always heard that The Temple of Elemental Evil was one of the most faithful reproductions of the tabletop rules, so I assumed that its indicator of area of effect spells was mimicking the knowledge a tabletop player would have.
The area of effect is explicitly listed in the rules text, and is (generally) not random.

For example, here is Fireball from 3.5e:
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/fireball.htm

Area: 20-ft.-radius spread
In other words, if you are casting a Fireball spell in 3.5e, you know that the area of effect is a 20 foot radius. (3.5e actually does have a Metamagic Feat that increases the area, but that is something you have to explicitly acquire and use; it is not automatic.)
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Waltorious: Isn't the area of effect for spells known in advance when playing tabletop D&D?
Baldur's Gate is not P&P, and it irritates me when people insist on direct comparisons.
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richlind33: No, it's my fault. I decided to poke poor Hickory to see if he has any game. Still not sure at this point. He seems to be waking up, very, very sloooooowly.
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ShadowWalker56: Actually Hickory not that bad. I find him more tolerable than most on this forum. He at least shows intelligence and maturity. Rare qualities.
I like Hickory but my God, the man's as dry as a sun-bleached bone!
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Hickory: Yes it does. It tells them exactly where the spell is going to land, including AOE. There's no such target reticule painted for arrows (or guns in other games). It's walking them through exactly where to aim, but not only that, the aiming is taken away; it's done for the player.
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Waltorious: Isn't the area of effect for spells known in advance when playing tabletop D&D? Genuinely curious, I've never actually played the tabletop game myself. If someone casts a fireball, do they know exactly where it will hit (or at least how big the explosion will be)? Or is there variance in it based on die rolls?
Spell radius is never affected by die rolls, and they are generally stable; the only time I can thing of things getting weird in terms of radius would be if a GM decided that a fireball cast in a narrow hallway would expand to fill the volume instead of being the normal spherical AOE. In P&P, and games like TOEE, the spell radius is communicated to the player, either by the GM telling the player what they are likely to hit or through some visual representation (battle mat/game display). That communication is important, especially at low levels where a misplaced fireball can flat out kill a low level PC. That, and any GM who refused to in any way let the players know what their spells' AOE would hit until after a spell was cast would not be a GM for long.
Post edited August 11, 2016 by Jonesy89
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ShadowWalker56: Actually Hickory not that bad. I find him more tolerable than most on this forum. He at least shows intelligence and maturity. Rare qualities.
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richlind33: I like Hickory but my God, the man's as dry as a sun-bleached bone!
Well at my age I find everyone to be a bit...well...how do I say this? Not to be offensive but most people tend to be a bit dry as you put it. Guess that just comes with getting old. LOL
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Waltorious: Isn't the area of effect for spells known in advance when playing tabletop D&D?
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Hickory: Baldur's Gate is not P&P, and it irritates me when people insist on direct comparisons.
No, but it gets all kinds of praise for emulating P&P D&D. The fact that it chose to ignore a fundamental design feature of the source material dating back to the earliest editions is worthy of criticism.
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richlind33: I like Hickory but my God, the man's as dry as a sun-bleached bone!
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ShadowWalker56: Well at my age I find everyone to be a bit...well...how do I say this? Not to be offensive but most people tend to be a bit dry as you put it. Guess that just comes with getting old. LOL
I used to think that *I* was dry. Until I met Hickory. ;p
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Hickory: Baldur's Gate is not P&P, and it irritates me when people insist on direct comparisons.
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Jonesy89: No, but it gets all kinds of praise for emulating P&P D&D. The fact that it chose to ignore a fundamental design feature of the source material dating back to the earliest editions is worthy of nitpicking.
Fix'd
Post edited August 11, 2016 by richlind33
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richlind33: Until I met Hickory.
Funny that, 'cause I've never met you.
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Waltorious: Isn't the area of effect for spells known in advance when playing tabletop D&D? Genuinely curious, I've never actually played the tabletop game myself. If someone casts a fireball, do they know exactly where it will hit (or at least how big the explosion will be)? Or is there variance in it based on die rolls?
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Jonesy89: Spell radius is never affected by die rolls, and they are generally stable; the only time I can thing of things getting weird in terms of radius would be if a GM decided that a fireball cast in a narrow hallway would expand to fill the volume instead of being the normal spherical AOE. In P&P, and games like TOEE, the spell radius is communicated to the player, either by the GM telling the player what they are likely to hit or through some visual representation (battle mat/game display). That communication is important, especially at low levels where a misplaced fireball can flat out kill a low level PC. That, and any GM who refused to in any way let the players know what their spells' AOE would hit until after a spell was cast would not be a GM for long.
Ever hear of something called "trial and error"?
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Jonesy89: No, but it gets all kinds of praise for emulating P&P D&D.
No it doesn't, it gets all kinds of praise for being a superb game in its own right; a variation of D&D. I have never seen one instance of public praise for faithfully emulating P&P.
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richlind33: Until I met Hickory.
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Hickory: Funny that, 'cause I've never met you.
Have I mentioned that you're stiff as a board? ;p