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My latest video is about fealty and philosophy, the two rules that are based on the game world.

https://youtu.be/Mw4HvNZlL-4
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OneFiercePuppy: Saerileth
Oh sweet salty Christ, no. That character was a mess, without getting into the pedophilia subtext. Granted, there's a kind of warped humor to be gained from playing with it to take the piss, but she's a crappily enough built character that she isn't worth lugging around.
The code forbids running away from battle. But that's exactly what the protagonist does at the start of the game. So, how can I NOT violate my code?

https://youtu.be/KlqSMkZ-B2I
I did a rp-Paladin BG1 run once and i think it is roughly possible to stay in character. BG2 is impossible without modding. I don't think you can work for an evil organisation and stay in a strict ethos.
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unifear: I did a rp-Paladin BG1 run once and i think it is roughly possible to stay in character. BG2 is impossible without modding. I don't think you can work for an evil organisation and stay in a strict ethos.
If you could somehow skip Chapter 3 of BG2, it would be possible to avoid working for an evil organization. Unfortunately, as far as I know, the only chapters you can really skip are 4 and 5, and doing so would violate the Paladin's ethos. (For Chapter 4, you skip rescuing Imoen when you polymorph teleport to the portal, and for Chapter 5, you attack the silver dragon that is trying to help you (unless you can find a way to turn the dragon hostile without violating the paladin's ethos).)

(Well, Chapter 2 can be skipped by using gem underflow to get enough money, but seeing as the entire chapter consists of side quests, none of which are mandatory, you could just avoid any non-paladin-like sidequests and still find a way to get enough money. I wouldn't consider fence-abuse (stealing from a fence and selling the goods back to him) paladin-like, however.)

Another question: How about Throne of Bhaal? I don't think any of the trials require you to do something evil unless you're already evil (and they can be skipped anyway). Does the game make you do anything evil or not-paladin-like? If so, is it mandatory or is there some way to skip it?
I haven't touched Baldur's Gate II, yet, so I don't know anything about it. It will be interesting to follow my ethos without knowing the tricks how to aviod problematic situations. (Right now I intentionally don't go where I might have to run away from enemies.)

My biggest concern is that I probably won't be able to accept Duke Eltan's mission, and then I might have to break my ethos by running away from his spell. Which means, I will have to find a method for penalties. The only method in the book I can translate to the game would be giving away my money, but that would raise my reputation and penalties shouldn't be rewarded. Any ideas?

Here is the latest video, where my paladin is choosing her companions and avoiding evil characters:

https://youtu.be/v3k3P20wJ3Y
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algi: I intentionally don't go where I might have to run away from enemies.
That's called cowardice. Not a paladin trait.
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algi: I intentionally don't go where I might have to run away from enemies.
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Hickory: That's called cowardice. Not a paladin trait.
I agree with you. I'm pretty sure that this isn't a sign of the end times, but damn if I never thought I would say that.

I can't help but think that OP is missing the point of Paladins, or at least of the 'code' that some people insist on saddling them with. They are meant to be an embodiment of all things good and just, yes... but they are also mortal, and that means that they can and always will fuck it up in some fashion great or small. Their code can't be treated as a list of commandments from whose slightest deviation means the highest shame, or else they couldn't function without Falling at the drop of a hat; hell, I'm not sure I can think of anyone who could abide by that code perfectly without developing some seriously bad clinical depression. Instead, it should be looked at more as a set of guiding principles that recognizes that there is a standard to strive for, but that fuckups will happen and that they can be atoned for in some way.

As for the business of giving away gold being a bad atonement because it raises rep, I think that also misses the point in its own way. You are a mortal who is striving to embody an incredibly demanding divine ideal, and part of that ideal is realizing when you done screwed up and need to do something to atone. If anything, gaining rep because you donate money as an atonement makes it an excellent choice, as it reflects approval that Sir Cockup had the guts to realize that they did something they shouldn't have and are sincerely trying to make up for it. Now, that won't work if you start abusing donation and throwing around money any time you feel like being an asshole, but that part of the RP would be on OP.

tl;dr: We fall so that we might learn to pick ourselves up again, even Paladins.
Post edited April 21, 2016 by Jonesy89
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Hickory: That's called cowardice. Not a paladin trait.
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Jonesy89: I agree with you. I'm pretty sure that this isn't a sign of the end times, but damn if I never thought I would say that.

I can't help but think that OP is missing the point of Paladins, or at least of the 'code' that some people insist on saddling them with. They are meant to be an embodiment of all things good and just, yes... but they are also mortal, and that means that they can and always will fuck it up in some fashion great or small. Their code can't be treated as a list of commandments from whose slightest deviation means the highest shame, or else they couldn't function without Falling at the drop of a hat; hell, I'm not sure I can think of anyone who could abide by that code perfectly without developing some seriously bad clinical depression. Instead, it should be looked at more as a set of guiding principles that recognizes that there is a standard to strive for, but that fuckups will happen and that they can be atoned for in some way.

As for the business of giving away gold being a bad atonement because it raises rep, I think that also misses the point in its own way. You are a mortal who is striving to embody an incredibly demanding divine ideal, and part of that ideal is realizing when you done screwed up and need to do something to atone. If anything, gaining rep because you donate money as an atonement makes it an excellent choice, as it reflects approval that Sir Cockup had the guts to realize that they did something they shouldn't have and are sincerely trying to make up for it. Now, that won't work if you start abusing donation and throwing around money any time you feel like being an asshole, but that part of the RP would be on OP.

tl;dr: We fall so that we might learn to pick ourselves up again, even Paladins.
It's impossible for any character or monster to be 100% lawful, chaotic, good, evil, or neutral. The tanaari have a sense of law to some degree. Especially when it comes to the Blood War and the chain of command.

Baatezu society is one where backstabbing is commonplace. The devils are masters of their craft and that by itself creates an unpredictable atmosphere. In the nine hells you cannot trust the next step you take.
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algi: I intentionally don't go where I might have to run away from enemies.
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Hickory: That's called cowardice. Not a paladin trait.
1. I'm not a paladin.
2. Playing a game a certain way isn't cowardice.
3. If you want to see loading again and again after dying, you can do it by yourself, I'm not making any videos about loading after dying again and again.
4. Even if my character WOULD know about the vampire dogs, basilisks, phase spiders, high level mages, it's not her task to go out of her way and attack them for no other reason than that they're evil or monsters. Then every paladin could commit suicide by jumping at the strongest enemy in the world they know about.
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Hickory: That's called cowardice. Not a paladin trait.
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Jonesy89: I agree with you. I'm pretty sure that this isn't a sign of the end times, but damn if I never thought I would say that.

I can't help but think that OP is missing the point of Paladins, or at least of the 'code' that some people insist on saddling them with.
Well, if you watched just any one of my videos, you would know that all these are written down in a book called The Complete Paladin's Handbook. It describes very thoroughly how strict the ethos is and goes into detail how the paladin should be punished if she violates the code.

Maybe I wasn't clear in my OP that the premise of this video series is that I will play Baldur's Gate with a paladin, following the paladin's ethos. Now, you might be the DM in your party and you might change the rules of the RPG, as DMs can do and you can say that these aren't strict rules, just a guideline. That still doesn't change the fact that this video series is about me playing Baldur's Gate as a paladin, following the paladin's ethos. Now, if you don't care if it is possible, don't watch it (as we already know you don't watch it). Maybe you noticed that Baldur's Gate video game ALLOWS you to play your paladin whatever way you wish. So, it's not like you have to follow the paladin's ethos. I don't have to follow it, either, I just thought it might be interesting to try it.
Post edited April 21, 2016 by algi
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jsidhu762: It's impossible for any character or monster to be 100% lawful, chaotic, good, evil, or neutral. The tanaari have a sense of law to some degree. Especially when it comes to the Blood War and the chain of command.

Baatezu society is one where backstabbing is commonplace. The devils are masters of their craft and that by itself creates an unpredictable atmosphere. In the nine hells you cannot trust the next step you take.
Belonging to an alignment doesn't mean that all your actions will be of that alignment. But in D&D your alignent is an absolute. There is no moral ambiguity whether an evil character is evil. I just use Detect Evil and we will have scientific proof that the person is evil (or not).

For example if a paladin wanders in the world and isn't part of a military, that's already not 100% lawful behavior. But there is a line she can't step over neither in evil, nor in chaotic direction, which is very clearly defined. And if that happens, then she will be punished. In worst case she will be stripped of her paladinhood. This happens only if she does intentionally evil acts, which she won't.
The way I roleplay a paladin is as a fascist with a sprinkle of religious zealotry. Law and the "greater good" above all else.
For example let's say you catch a thief but find out he/she only stole some bread and fruit to feed his/her starving family. I'd say the good thing to do would be to turn a blind eye however my paladin would simply arrest that person.
Essentially he sees the world as black or white, refusing to acknowledge any shades of grey.
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Hickory: That's called cowardice. Not a paladin trait.
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algi: 1. I'm not a paladin.
2. Playing a game a certain way isn't cowardice.
3. If you want to see loading again and again after dying, you can do it by yourself, I'm not making any videos about loading after dying again and again.
4. Even if my character WOULD know about the vampire dogs, basilisks, phase spiders, high level mages, it's not her task to go out of her way and attack them for no other reason than that they're evil or monsters. Then every paladin could commit suicide by jumping at the strongest enemy in the world they know about.
You are absolutely and completely missing the whole point, which has been apparent right from the start of your series. You want to play a paladin, but you don't want to 'be' the role that you play. You can't make a series about a paladin and her 'ethos', and completely dismiss actions that go against everything that a paladin stands for and still have people take you (or your paladin) seriously. You are not doing yourself any favours here.
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algi: 1. I'm not a paladin.
2. Playing a game a certain way isn't cowardice.
3. If you want to see loading again and again after dying, you can do it by yourself, I'm not making any videos about loading after dying again and again.
4. Even if my character WOULD know about the vampire dogs, basilisks, phase spiders, high level mages, it's not her task to go out of her way and attack them for no other reason than that they're evil or monsters. Then every paladin could commit suicide by jumping at the strongest enemy in the world they know about.
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Hickory: You are absolutely and completely missing the whole point, which has been apparent right from the start of your series. You want to play a paladin, but you don't want to 'be' the role that you play. You can't make a series about a paladin and her 'ethos', and completely dismiss actions that go against everything that a paladin stands for and still have people take you (or your paladin) seriously. You are not doing yourself any favours here.
I have to agree. Again. The seas are not yet turning to blood, but I expect that will happen if this keeps up.

This whole playthrough seems like a textbook example of following the letter of the law while completely ignoring the spirit of the law. Yes, the rules may take issue with running away, but completely avoiding anything that might necessitate fleeing is the kind of thing that a Paladin is supposed to stand against. Avoiding a dragon that the party is in no way shape or form to take on would be understandable, since engaging in that fight would do nothing but get everyone killed and help noone, but avoiding anything that might pose a threat and necessitate a tactical retreat is quite another, since it means that you will never be helping where help is needed the most. If you fuck up, you make amends. You don't leave dangers you know about to fester because you might fuck up in the first place, because that's putting your own convenience ahead of everything else.
Post edited April 22, 2016 by Jonesy89
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algi: Well, if you watched just any one of my videos, you would know that all these are written down in a book called The Complete Paladin's Handbook. It describes very thoroughly how strict the ethos is and goes into detail how the paladin should be punished if she violates the code.

Maybe I wasn't clear in my OP that the premise of this video series is that I will play Baldur's Gate with a paladin, following the paladin's ethos. Now, you might be the DM in your party and you might change the rules of the RPG, as DMs can do and you can say that these aren't strict rules, just a guideline. That still doesn't change the fact that this video series is about me playing Baldur's Gate as a paladin, following the paladin's ethos. Now, if you don't care if it is possible, don't watch it (as we already know you don't watch it). Maybe you noticed that Baldur's Gate video game ALLOWS you to play your paladin whatever way you wish. So, it's not like you have to follow the paladin's ethos. I don't have to follow it, either, I just thought it might be interesting to try it.
Please don't patronize me. I am well aware of how 2E treats Paladins, and I know of the (in my humble opinion, needlessly convoluted and impossible to follow) rules set forth in the CPH. I also know that...

"Still, the paladin considers his ethos a privilege, not a burden. To him, all conduct has a moral quality. Every action is a choice between right and wrong. With justifiable pride, he considers himself an embodiment of the highest standards of human behavior."

That is a direct quote from the CPH, emphasis mine. The Paladin is (at least in this interpretation) meant to embody a high moral standard so that others might learn from their example. To quote the late Marlon Brando from Superman: "They can be a great people, Kal-El; they wish to be. They only lack the light to show the way". The Paladin is supposed to be that light, guiding people by providing a living example of behavior to follow. Sure, if you happen to fall short of that standard by needing to flee or whatever, that's life; you do what you can to shine that light, you atone when you fall short so long as it doesn't involve consciously acting Evil (i.e. selfish). Dimming that light because you are worried about needing to spend time and money to replace the proverbial bulb, on the other hand, shows more concern for the Paladin's A+ report card than for the people that whole Paladin scthick is supposed to benefit.