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SerWind: This thread makes me want to dual class my mage into Kensai but he has about 19,000 xp points into level 5. Are those lost on dual classing?
To add to what Heindrich88 has already said, your mage will also need to have at the very least 15 Strength to even be able to dual to a fighter class -- unusual in a mage -- and at 15 will be a relatively weak fighter anyway.
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SerWind: This thread makes me want to dual class my mage into Kensai but he has about 19,000 xp points into level 5. Are those lost on dual classing?
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Hickory: To add to what Heindrich88 has already said, your mage will also need to have at the very least 15 Strength to even be able to dual to a fighter class -- unusual in a mage -- and at 15 will be a relatively weak fighter anyway.
I understood that 15 was the number you had to have in a class' prime requisite/s to dual class *from*, and that one needed 17 or better in the prime requisite/s of the class dualled *to*....

Thus to dual class a Mage to a Fighter [Kit], one would need a 15 or better in Int [prime requisite of the first class] , and a 17 or better in Str [prime requisite of the second class].... no?
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Hickory: To add to what Heindrich88 has already said, your mage will also need to have at the very least 15 Strength to even be able to dual to a fighter class -- unusual in a mage -- and at 15 will be a relatively weak fighter anyway.
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Lasivern: I understood that 15 was the number you had to have in a class' prime requisite/s to dual class *from*, and that one needed 17 or better in the prime requisite/s of the class dualled *to*....

Thus to dual class a Mage to a Fighter [Kit], one would need a 15 or better in Int [prime requisite of the first class] , and a 17 or better in Str [prime requisite of the second class].... no?
You are right, of course. My bad. :(
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Lasivern: and a 17 or better in Str [prime requisite of the second class].... no?
Well it seems like I've shot myself in the foot. Pure mage it is, unless there's any reason to go mage/cleric
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Lasivern: and a 17 or better in Str [prime requisite of the second class].... no?
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SerWind: Well it seems like I've shot myself in the foot. Pure mage it is, unless there's any reason to go mage/cleric
Hardly... pure mage one of the most powerful builds in BG 2! I am using a Fighter/Mage, but I am following a Let's Play by a guy using a pure Mage, and at the same stage in the game, his character is much more advanced than mine in casting potential, which is what really matters in the endgame.

Oh and I think Mage/Cleric is impossible... I'm not sure, I just read somewhere that Aerie breaks normal rules because she is Mage/Cleric.
Post edited August 23, 2013 by Heindrich88
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Heindrich88: Oh and I think Mage/Cleric is impossible... I'm not sure, I just read somewhere that Aerie breaks normal rules because she is Mage/Cleric.
No, Cleric/Mage is a valid multiclass. Aerie breaks the rules because she is an elf. Normally the only race that can become a Cleric/Mage is a half elf, or a gnome as a Cleric/Illusionist.
You can always roll a Berserker Mage, instead. Why loose on the gauntlets of extraordinary specialization, or the berserking temporary immunities, by having to waste precious spell slots? I do not know your playstyle, just a suggestion it is. I had a fighter through 1, in my previous playthrough, got him to 2, and dualled him at 10 level. You can at 9, if you wish, instead. By the end of Tob, i had grandmastery to Quarterstaff and 2handed sword, specialization in 2 handed weapons, and a proficiency in darts, just because i had to spend 1* to something.

In SoA, the Staff of the magi and the Silver sword, worked actually pretty well on him. In tob, i made circlet of netheril, improved cloak of protection +2, Staff of the Ram and Gram the Sword of Grief. Robes of Vecna and amulet of power; i couldn't find the motivation to change them with something else, new! Belt of inertial barrier. Rings, gaxx and wizardry (2 gaxx, if you pickpocket him carefully before killing, which i did).

Kensai is best to dual to thief, i believe. Use any item, plus thieving skills to avoid becoming early target for control/crowd control spells/abilities, cry out for this combination. Those who use kensai mages, mostly advice for dual wield and exotic weaponry, like katanas (magic katanas from special vendor also allow you to cast more spells), yet the true trademark weapon of the warrior is the 2H sword, and of the mage the Staff. Nuff said. Some claim berserker to mage is absurd and makes no sense lore and rp wise. But you have to try it. It is very fun.

If by any chance you still need to Kensai->Mage that desperately, you do it at 9 for good timing, at 13 for best (but this way you will need lots of xp to reactivate old class). Another reason that Kensai->Thief is a better idea overall. Because you can dual at 13 and still reach thief max level minus only 1.
Post edited August 25, 2013 by KiNgBrAdLeY7
Sorry if it's not kosher to ask questions in other peoples threads but ever since this thread I've had a tickling in the back of my brain to make a mage/cleric for some reason.

As my character is neutral good character and he's getting healing 'spells' from dreams it seems like it would fit lore wise but I'm just worried it's going to be really bad and/or make me less of a mage. Do you end up with less room for spell memorization if you dual class?

Any tips?
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SerWind: Sorry if it's not kosher to ask questions in other peoples threads but ever since this thread I've had a tickling in the back of my brain to make a mage/cleric for some reason.

As my character is neutral good character and he's getting healing 'spells' from dreams it seems like it would fit lore wise but I'm just worried it's going to be really bad and/or make me less of a mage. Do you end up with less room for spell memorization if you dual class?

Any tips?
No. Your arcane and divine spell books are completely separate, and are governed by different stats. Arcane spells, and the amount you can learn per level, are governed by your character's INT -- at 19 INT there is no limit -- whereas divine spells, governed by WIS, are not learned but granted automatically every turn. The higher your character's WIS the better, because bonus slots are granted as WIS gets higher.
Post edited August 25, 2013 by Hickory
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Hickory: No. Your arcane and divine spell books are completely separate, and are governed by different stats. Arcane spells, and the amount you can learn per level, are governed by your character's INT -- at 19 INT there is no limit -- whereas divine spells, governed by WIS, are not learned but granted automatically every turn. The higher your character's WIS the better, because bonus slots are granted as WIS gets higher.
I guess what I meant was naturally I'll end up being a higher level mage if I just go pure mage and thus get more slots for mage spells in the end, right?

Also what does it mean to have no limit on the amount you can learn per level if you have 19 int? I've always been a little confused about that.
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Hickory: No. Your arcane and divine spell books are completely separate, and are governed by different stats. Arcane spells, and the amount you can learn per level, are governed by your character's INT -- at 19 INT there is no limit -- whereas divine spells, governed by WIS, are not learned but granted automatically every turn. The higher your character's WIS the better, because bonus slots are granted as WIS gets higher.
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SerWind: I guess what I meant was naturally I'll end up being a higher level mage if I just go pure mage and thus get more slots for mage spells in the end, right?

Also what does it mean to have no limit on the amount you can learn per level if you have 19 int? I've always been a little confused about that.
What he means is this...

At each spell level, there are around 20 spells, some levels have more spells, some have less. If a Mage's intelligence is 19, he can learn every scroll he comes across in the game. Otherwise there is a limit on the number of spells he can scribe in the spellbook for each level of spells.

Int -------> Spells
18-------> 17
17-------> 14
16-------> 11

Oh and yes a pure class mage or cleric will gain access to higher level spells quicker compared to a multi-class mage or cleric. It is not so noticeable in BG 1, but in BG 2 my multi-class characters are significantly behind the specialists in terms of spells.

The problem is mitigated somewhat in the long run with Dual-classing, where depending on when you make the switch, a dual-class character can almost catch up to a specialist. For example Anomen in BG 2 is not much worse than a specialist Cleric, but Aerie, being multi-class, is quite some way behind him and Viconia, who is a specialist Cleric.
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KiNgBrAdLeY7: You can always roll a Berserker Mage, instead. Why loose on the gauntlets of extraordinary specialization, or the berserking temporary immunities, by having to waste precious spell slots? I do not know your playstyle, just a suggestion it is. I had a fighter through 1, in my previous playthrough, got him to 2, and dualled him at 10 level. You can at 9, if you wish, instead. By the end of Tob, i had grandmastery to Quarterstaff and 2handed sword, specialization in 2 handed weapons, and a proficiency in darts, just because i had to spend 1* to something.

In SoA, the Staff of the magi and the Silver sword, worked actually pretty well on him. In tob, i made circlet of netheril, improved cloak of protection +2, Staff of the Ram and Gram the Sword of Grief. Robes of Vecna and amulet of power; i couldn't find the motivation to change them with something else, new! Belt of inertial barrier. Rings, gaxx and wizardry (2 gaxx, if you pickpocket him carefully before killing, which i did).

Kensai is best to dual to thief, i believe. Use any item, plus thieving skills to avoid becoming early target for control/crowd control spells/abilities, cry out for this combination. Those who use kensai mages, mostly advice for dual wield and exotic weaponry, like katanas (magic katanas from special vendor also allow you to cast more spells), yet the true trademark weapon of the warrior is the 2H sword, and of the mage the Staff. Nuff said. Some claim berserker to mage is absurd and makes no sense lore and rp wise. But you have to try it. It is very fun.

If by any chance you still need to Kensai->Mage that desperately, you do it at 9 for good timing, at 13 for best (but this way you will need lots of xp to reactivate old class). Another reason that Kensai->Thief is a better idea overall. Because you can dual at 13 and still reach thief max level minus only 1.
You should know by now that I am completely opposite to you as a player. Powergaming does not appeal to me in the slightest. Cheesing actually annoys me, and you cheese on such a level that I feel like something criminal has been committed against this great game.
Post edited August 25, 2013 by Heindrich88
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Hickory: No. Your arcane and divine spell books are completely separate, and are governed by different stats. Arcane spells, and the amount you can learn per level, are governed by your character's INT -- at 19 INT there is no limit -- whereas divine spells, governed by WIS, are not learned but granted automatically every turn. The higher your character's WIS the better, because bonus slots are granted as WIS gets higher.
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SerWind: I guess what I meant was naturally I'll end up being a higher level mage if I just go pure mage and thus get more slots for mage spells in the end, right?
Well yes, you'll get more mage slots as a single class, but you won't have priest spells. If you are playing with the standard level cap, then you will get to level 13/14 (M/C) in SoA and 20/25 (M/C) in ToB, so you will not hit the top level mage spells until ToB.

Also what does it mean to have no limit on the amount you can learn per level if you have 19 int? I've always been a little confused about that.
As a mage your character is only able to learn so many spells per level, based on his/her INT. The amount of spells your character can learn (that means how many spells you get to put in the spell book per level) is as follows:

INT score -- Spells per Level
======================
8 - NONE
9 - 6 spells
10 - 7 spells
11 - 7 spells
12 - 7 spells
13 - 8 spells
14 - 9 spells
15 - 11 spells
16 - 11 spells
17 - 14 spells
18 - 18 spells
19 - UNLIMITED

You should know by now that I am completely opposite to you as a player. Powergaming does not appeal to me in the slightest. Cheesing actually annoys me, and you cheese on such a level that I feel like something criminal has been committed against this great game.
Well, if you ignore the twin ring of gaxx (and still, pickpocketing before killing is neither cheat, nor exploit, it is legit gameplay option), everything else is obtainable through very fine and normal gameplay, without exploits. All items i mentioned, are perfectly craftable/obtainable, without cheese, cheating, or anything else. Belt is even sold by vendor, amulet is gained from quest reward, etc. But i forgot; maybe very strong items are to be avoided/ignored, like some hardcore D&D fans suggest? Some claim even the existence of items like Robes of Vecna and Ring of Gaxx are cheats. They might have a point, though, i never was familiar with tabletop and stuff.

P.S. Before memorizing your amassed wizard spell-scrolls, find a way to temporarily raise your intellect, like a potion or something. In order to be able to fill your spellbook, or else you will be unable to. And this is also neither cheat, nor cheese.
Post edited August 25, 2013 by KiNgBrAdLeY7
Thank you guys.

What a ridiculously hard decision, but I don't really want to wait until ToB to get high level mage spells so I guess that cinches it.

Also I feel sort of bad because this thank you required nowhere near the amount of effort it took you guys to write out your answers so just know that I really appreciate it. It's nice to know there are still people who care about these kinds of games and who will take the time to guide newbies.

Edit: One final thing I guess, if I were to dual class, would it be by the same rule of thumb as a fighter/mage? Either at level 4 or 9?
Post edited August 26, 2013 by SerWind
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SerWind: Thank you guys.

What a ridiculously hard decision, but I don't really want to wait until ToB to get high level mage spells so I guess that cinches it.

Also I feel sort of bad because this thank you required nowhere near the amount of effort it took you guys to write out your answers so just know that I really appreciate it. It's nice to know there are still people who care about these kinds of games and who will take the time to guide newbies.

Edit: One final thing I guess, if I were to dual class, would it be by the same rule of thumb as a fighter/mage? Either at level 4 or 9?
No worries, u are welcome. I was a noob a few weeks ago, and people on another forum (http://forum.baldursgate.com/) spent much longer getting me acquainted with this awesome game. Incidentally that forum is an active community of BG fans, and discuss all BG and related topics, so it's not just for those with the enhanced edition. In fact I'm running my BG 2 Let's Play on there, even though that's obviously a GoG game.

As for when to Dual-class. I think the accepted wisdom is lv9 or lv 13, if u intend to take Charname through all of BG 1 and BG 2. In which case u don't need to worry about it until start of BG 2.

As for dual-classing to maximise benefit in BG 1... I wouldn't bother if I were u. If u really want a Fighter/Mage for BG 1 only, just go for a multi-class character. Because of levelling thresholds, u don't lose much compared to Dual-class, and u avoid the hassle of the phase when ur Charname is almost crippled by the process.