So... you saying the game's canon is just because of snippets getting into comics and stuff? So it's as I thought, the game is not canon, nor was it ever.

Oh, and please don't insult me by quoting wiki as official source.

It is also in the book I linked to. Written by Ed Greenwood - the creator of the Forgotten Realms. That is an official, canon, product. It is set in stone (sadly). The wiki says the same thing the book does. BG is covered on page 148-149 - under the year 1368. Neverwinter Nights on page 153 - takes place in 1372. That one doesn't even have a novelization. Just a game and they made it canon.

And the comic is also canon, oddly enough.

The game is canon, and so is Neverwinter Nights.

I agree with you that making them canon is utterly stupid, but WOTC did what they did. We are talking about the brilliant minds behind the 4th edition rules here. This is what you get.


Edit: Seems they also released an official Campaign that ties into the Bhaalspawn saga. It takes place after ToB, and uses mostly "lore" and background stuff from the games and not the novels. The ending of the campaign is also canon, since Bhaal does return in 5ed. http://www.dmsguild.com/product/160318/Murder-in-Baldurs-Gate-5e

Check out various reviews for this book and you get the picture.

So...there you have it. WOTC stuffed our beloved BG character into a damn paperback campaign to try and sell their 5ed products....Most likely why they brought Minsc back and made the comics canon too. A cheapass marketing ploy.


Minsc and Boo are in one of the expansions to Neverwinter (the mmo) as well. 4 of the Drizzt books were written to set up the story for that MMO, so...since the Drizzt books are absolutely canon, and Minsc + Boo are in the MMO....

Sorry to tell you this. It sucks, but WOTC has messed up the canon.

I have not read the books myself and I wont because there is a good amount of people who despise the books. I do not even know what they are about.

I, however, read the Drizzt books and very much enjoyed them. The underdark community and their diplomacy system is very exciting and as unbelievable and unrealistic as it sounds, it is VERY close to our current modern society. Especially business sector. That system can be described as "You can do evil things, even kill an entire faction, everybody will know it and praise you if you have not left any evidence. If you have left evidence however, they will all turn on you, despise you and then crush you."

You just don't get it. To be 'canon' a product has to show that, "this is how it happened". Clearly any game with the player at the rudder and (as Karpyshyn stated) multiple outcomes absolutely *cannot* show that "this is how it happened". You are just blindly stating that the game is canon because certain parts of it have piecemeal entered into official publications. That is not how canon works. It is why they produce novels and novellas. THAT is how canon works, because they can (erroneously) show that "this is how it happened".

The game is not canon. Period.

Canon. LOL. This isn't the Catholic church. All of the Star Wars "expanded universe" was canon until Mickey Mouse bought it and made fully-grown neckbeards cry.

And it's not like Gary Gygax's AD&D hasn't been through a change of ownership.Twice.

I know. But they use stuff from the games in their new products. New products always follow the canon. What Drew said many years ago was true then. It isn't now. The Minsc comic even mentions Neera....she shitty Beamdog NPC. Nothing from the BG novels has been used in any official products. Plenty of stuff has been used from the games.

You are right about how canon works. Or rather how it DID work until 5-10 years ago before WOTC decided to change how they did stuff.

Making video games canon is MORONIC. I am not disputing that fact.

They made Bob Salvatore write some dRizzt novels that set up the Neverwinter MMO. Those are canon. The conclusion to the storyline set up in those books is the MMO (it says so in the book cover too). In the NWN mmo, Minsc and Boo shows up. Just as they are portrayed in the BG games - not how Minsc is in the novel.

""Canon", according to Ed Greenwood, is any published source relating to the Forgotten Realms campaign setting. This means that if it is for sale in paper (or digital) form then it is official Realmslore." - Which means the Minsc comics, and the fact that it is BG Minsc that shows up in the comics, the games are also canon. Minsc also showed up in adventure modules set in the Realms as well. So there you have it. The FR creator said is as well. Any published source relating the the FR setting = canon.

This of course contradicts the BG novels, but it would seem WoTC have completely ditched those in favor of the games.

WOTC has messed up their own canon. Which isn't surprising because most of the real talent has left the company many years ago. "Creative differences" because of the 4ed fiasco. Kind of like what happened to Bioware when EA took over.
That was because the stuff they replaced the old EU with contradicted the movies.

Just because something has changed owners doesn't mean both new owners are terrible\great.

TSR made rock solid rpg products.

WOTC\Hasbro is just tweaking everything based on what is "trending". Hence why they tried to turn The Forgotten Realms into WoW in d&d form.

You still don't get it, do you? You can have canon elements (Minsc, Boo, Elminster, et al.), but the game itself, in its entirety, which is the whole crux of this issue, is not and can not be canon. Period.

Minsc is canon.
Boo is canon.
Drizzt is canon.
Baldur's Gate city is canon.

Baldur's Gate the computer RPG game is NOT canon, and it never can be.

Canon is overrated.

If everything Star Wars were required to be canon, we wouldn't be able to get things like Star Wars Infinities. Sometimes, one might want to intentionally go against canon. In Star Wars Infinities: A New Hope, the whole premise of the comic is that Luke fails to destroy the Death Star, making the comic obviously non-canon, and the story would not have worked if it had to adhere to the canon.

Also, here's an interesting case of how a different series handled multiple endings in its canon:

In The Elder Scrolls: Daggerfall, there are six endings (though one of them requires hacking to achieve and suffers from bugs). Later in the series, it is revealed that all five achievable endings happened, and they all happened simultaneously. In fact, in Oblivion there is an in-game book called "The Warp in the West" that describes the events.

One reason why I hold the notion in contempt. Nothing is 'required' to be canon. Creators 'declare' things 'canon' so that they can keep a tight reign on things, and the general public just eat it up because "buzz word".

Minsc is not a ranger in the novel, nor is he bald. He isn't even a warrior. He has curly red hair, and he never says the hamster is named Boo.

https://68.media.tumblr.com/e0d8f51f99fae9ae4b08cb9e01f7047c/tumblr_ocngciBW6n1t98fjvo4_500.jpg
Does this guy look like the Minsc that showed up in the novels? Or does he look like the Minsc from the games?

Minsc and Boo, as they appear in the video games, has now been included in THREE official products. All three of them mentions the events and characters of the BG games. Corran and Neera are mentioned\show up in them too. Neither are in the novels.

Drizzt books set up (deliberately) the Neverwinter MMO - which features the BG version of Minsc.

The events of the BG video games have been added to the official FR history book - by Ed Greenwood. The events of the books are not in the official book.

The logic behind WOTC doing is of course questionable, and even downright stupid. But the fact is they ditched the novels in this case and are now going full steam ahead with the events + characters from the game.
Usually they just pick one possible ending and go with it. Unless the game has a world-state import. But that is fairly new.

The ultima games and the Might and Magic games etc all just went with one of the endings. It was pretty much just done for practical reasons if anything.

What's your point? Again, what's your point? No they haven't. Here is the entirety of the events portrayed in the Baldur's Gate games as they appear in the grand history by Ed Greenwood and others:

[Quoted word for word]
1368 DR Year of the Banner
...
— Sarevok, spawn of Bhaal, plots with the Iron Throne to start a war between Amn and Baldur’s Gate by “poisoning” the iron mines above the Amnian town of Nashkel. In the conflict, Scar of the Flaming Fist mercenaries and Grand Duke Eltan of Baldur’s Gate are killed and have to be resurrected.
— Seeking vengeance against his people, Joneleth “The Exile” orchestrates a conflict between the drow of Ust Natha and the elf settlement of Suldanes-sellar. Joneleth unleashes Bhaal’s avatar, the Ravager, upon Suldanessellar while he taps the powers of the Tree of Life, seeking immortality. Abdel Adrian and his companions confront Joneleth, known to them as the mage Jon Irenicus. As the battle rages and the elf city burns, Queen Ellesime and a few survivors flee to Myth Rhynn.
— The city of Saradush is briefly occupied by Calishite forces before being besieged by a mercenary army under the command of the fire giant Yaga Shura. The giant commander is defeated by the Bhaal-spawn Abdel Adrian, but Saradush is left a smoking ruin in the wake of the conflict.
[Unquote]

There is no other mention of the events of the games. None.

I don't know where you're getting your information from, but regardless of that you are continuing to completely ignore the entire point just to perpetuate your notion that, somehow, if a character from the game shows up in some official publication, that means that the entire video game ("as it happens") is canon. Give it up.

From what I remember, the Ultima games had only one ending each (well, 7 has two endings, but one of them is clearly a bad ending that would not be conducive to a sequel and therefore wouldn't be suitable for canon), and the early Might and Magic games (at least through 5, and probably 6) had only one ending each.

Then again, Daggerfall is a rather interesting exception to the rule you stated, as all the achievable endings occurred according to the lore of later entries in the series.

6 had 3 endings.

Might and Magic 6 had two. One of them involved the whole planet exploding.



1. My point is that Minsc looks exactly like he does in the games, and not at all like he does in the novels. His personality is exactly like in the games too. Ergo WOTC are using the game-Minsc as canon, not the novel-Minsc. They are completely different characters.

2. Same point as the first one. WOTC are going with the stuff from the games, not the novels.

3. Scar wasn't killed in the novels, I believe. He croaked in the game though.

In game events are now stuffed into official comics, other video games, and official FR modules. Stuff from the BG novels? Nothing. The novels are ignored.

They also tied the BG games to the Drizzt novels via BG-game-Minsc - who, by the way, mentions characters from the games that aren't in the novels.

I get that you don't WANT Wotc to make the games canon. I don't either. I think it is dumb. But they are, though. More and more stuff from the games are being put into official products. They don't do that with non-canon material.

If you're talking about Ultima 6, the game had only one ending.

Maybe you're confusing it with Wizardry 6?

[Edit for typo.]
[Quoted word for word]
1368 DR Year of the Banner
...
— Seeking vengeance against his people, Joneleth “The Exile” orchestrates a conflict between the drow of Ust Natha and the elf settlement of Suldanes-sellar. Joneleth unleashes Bhaal’s avatar, the Ravager, upon Suldanessellar while he taps the powers of the Tree of Life, seeking immortality. Abdel Adrian and his companions confront Joneleth, known to them as the mage Jon Irenicus. As the battle rages and the elf city burns, Queen Ellesime and a few survivors flee to Myth Rhynn.
— The city of Saradush is briefly occupied by Calishite forces before being besieged by a mercenary army under the command of the fire giant Yaga Shura. The giant commander is defeated by the Bhaal-spawn Abdel Adrian, but Saradush is left a smoking ruin in the wake of the conflict.
[Unquote]
.

You're making things up to fit your argument while all the while ignoring the actual point. You're in denial. I've had enough of this nonsense. You're wrong.