Hi all,

I picked up BG 1 and 2, as well as Icewind Dale, because I've been recently very curious about D&D. Since playing any actual games in my area is difficult to find (I live in the Netherlands at the moment) I figured I would give the computer games a try.

Problem is, because of conditioning with more streamlined RPG titles (Final Fantasy, Chrono Trigger, Earthbound, etc.) I am finding these games a bit difficult to approach. I want to go with the best race, class, stats, and so on. I want to be sure that I don't miss any items, cut-scenes, party members, all that. Other RPG games are mostly about this kind of thing but I understand that D&D style games aren't really.

So I guess I am just asking for tips to get over this kind of anxiety and just jump in and enjoy this series.

Thanks.

Hey, welcome to our world. You will never be the same again ;)

First, I strongly recommend you to find and read my 2 posts in that topic.

Come back later after you have read them both (or you can read the whole topic) and we can discuss what kind of a hero you want to be in the world of Forgotten Realms.

First, note that I haven't yet played the Siege of Dragonspear expansion, so my comments don't take that into account. And I'll be mainly talking about the Baldur's Gate games rather than Icewind Dale, which you also mention.

That aside, jumping in and enjoying is probably the right attitude to have. Don't be afraid to do so without knowing a lot, and don't be afraid to learn as you go - including learning some things the hard way! If you do want to know more about the system and the setting, what's in the manual should more than suffice - don't go poring through online walkthroughs as it will probably diminish your enjoyment, at least as a newcomer.

Regarding your concerns, I'll answer the two separately: This is reasonable. These games can be difficult, especially for someone not familiar with the system, so there's no shame in building an effective character. Obviously that partly depends on the difficulty setting you choose (my preference is always the AD&D Core Rules setting, but that's partly because of my experience with the pencil-and-paper game - choose what works for you). There isn't a single "best" class or race, but certain classes, especially mages, can be very challenging for new players at the beginning of the game because they can die very easily without allies and higher-level spells to protect them (though later, especially in BG2, mages become extremely powerful). So some pointers follow (just my opinions, others may disagree).

I'd recommend you play your first game as a fighter, paladin, ranger or barbarian (assuming you're playing the Enhanced Edition - BG1 classic, unmodded, doesn't have barbarians), as they're all good front-line combatants, can wear armour and can take more damage than other classes. Have a look at the abilities of those classes and their various "kits", i.e. variants (but again, BG1 classic doesn't have kits), and see which you like the look of.

As for race, there's no particular advantage to being a human unless your class requires it (e.g. paladin) or you plan to dual-class later (which I recommend you don't until you become more experienced - N. B. dual-class and multi-class are different things). See which races your preferred class allows, and decide which you like the look of; I'll only say I advise against being a halfling because of their penalty to Strength.

Which brings me on to stats. Again, I think Baldur's Gate justifies a certain amount of min-maxing, especially as the details of how your ability scores affect your capabilities can be counterintuitive (AD&D was a bit of a weird system). Go for 18 Strength, or 19 if you're a half-orc. If it's 18, don't worry about the numbers after the slash (which only the warrior classes get); higher is better, but regardless it will be enough. Go for at least 16 Constitution and Dexterity, as they both help keep you alive; if you want to focus on archery, go for the maximum Dexterity as it helps you hit things. Intelligence, Wisdom and Charisma are less important for these classes' abilities, though some of them require a certain number in them (e.g. paladins need 17 charisma!) - but this happens automatically, as you choose your class before you roll your ability scores.

The above is enough to give you, if not the absoutely optimal build, at least a perfectly viable character that an inexperienced player shouldn't have too much trouble with. A nice thing about these games is that you're free either to take such an approach (which can reward you with more XP, items etc.) or just concentrate on the main plot. There's lots of exploring to do (particularly in BG1 which has lots of wilderness-type areas) and lots of side-quests of various sizes. As for party members, talk to as many characters as you can and, of those who turn out to be recruitable, see which ones you like. You can always replace them.

You also mentioned Icewid Dale. Although it uses the same game system (with some variations), it's quite a different style of game - it's more heavily focused on dungeon-crawling and less on plot, characterisation and so on. Also you create the whole party yourself rather making a single character and recruiting allies. It's a good game, and may lend itself better to the sort of approach you say you're used to, but not as good as the Baldur's Gate games, and I'd certainly recommend playing BG1 first.

Finally, you say your interest in these games was sparked by a desire to play D&D. That's great, and good luck finding a group, but just be aware that the currently published edition of D&D has changed a lot from the one the Baldur's Gate games were based on, so if you play one and then the other you should be prepared for a rather different system.

I hope the above is helpful. Feel free to ask follow-up questions.

You are overthinking and setting yourself up for restartitis.Pick something fighter type and just play.

Then you're going about it the wrong way -- you probably won't enjoy the game/s.

Start with Baldur's Gate, Icewind Dale requires more skill, has far more freedom at party creation (and options to mess up) while in BG you create only one party member.

Don't bother trying to be perfect, be no walkthrough-hugging robot, write your own story. Pretty much any class works well, decide which race and class you find interesting and ask for information for optimizing.

You are overthinking it. Just play it and figure out the game as you go. And don't be afraid of missing something.

If you try to do everything during your first playthrough I guarantee that you will not finish BG1. Just go with the flow and then play through it again. Discovering new things that one missed during the first playthrough is one of the most rewarding experiences in these types of games.

if you want a tough char to play the entire BG saga I would recommend this:

Half Orc Fighter (berserker kit)
str 19, dex 18, con 19, int wis and cha can be whatever you like
spend your weapon proficiencies on two weapon fighting and a single handed weapon of your choice (longsword, axe, bastard sword and even short sword are all fine) spend all the skill points you get from gaining levels on those 2 as well.

now you have a char with high health and AC who can use berserk to become temporarily immune to several nasty spells and effects while chopping up anybody who gets in his way.


if you want a tougher challenge:
Elf Fighter/Mage/Thief
str 18/**, dex 19, con 17, int 18, wis and cha what ever you like
spend your weapon proficiencies on two weapon fighting and longswords
thief skill points depends on the rest of your party. if you keep Imoen in your party then you can both specialize in different skills.
Make sure to cast finf familiar for extra hitpoints and then keep it in your inventory for safe keeping.
Your mage side will start slow and weak. I use lvl 1 spell slots for identify and lvl 2 slots for mirror image. (take off any armor before casting and put it back on afterwards.) also be aware that you'll never be able to cast lvl 9 spells.

Wow, thanks for all the responses everyone, particularly ydobemos for a very detailed post. I see a lot of recommendations to go with a fighter type, presumably making the game a bit more easy to go through. That's a good tip, but I feel like for the purposes of role-playing, I'd like a character more focused on intelligence and spell-casting. Perhaps this isn't a good idea? If I were to get into a real pen-and-paper game this would be the route I would like to go.

It is difficult for me to let go of collect-a-thon habits (right now I am playing through Final Fantasy 1 on NES, so that might not be helping) but the feeling I get from this thread is that it's best to dive in and not concern myself so much with that.

Another question though. Would reading through AD&D 2e materials help in any way, such as the Player Handbook or Monster Manual? Well, more like skimming through them as reading them in their entirety might take a good long while.

More specifically to make the beginning of the game easier to get through. I won't go so far as to say it's a bad idea. It'll certainly be more difficult for an inexperienced player (at least at the beginning), but if you're up for the challenge then by all means go for it. Mages make excellent characters - it's just that a low-level mage with few or no allies will have a tough time in combat. Obviously both those issues will diminish as the game goes on. It probably won't help you get to grips with the game, as the important information is reproduced in the BG (and IWD) manuals. Also there are differences from the p&p rules (inevitably so, to make a functional video game), so you might find yourself misled about some things. And in particular I'd advise against reading the Monster Manual (or anything else intended for DMs rather than players) as you may end up finding some things out that the game expects you to learn the hard way. I'm not discouraging you from reading AD&D books for general interest, or for comparison with BG once you're more familiar with the latter, I'm just saying it's not important to do so as a guide to BG.

The big thing with taking a fighter type is that fighters can wear the better armor and have more hp. In short, their passive defenses are simple and more numerous than a mage's passive defenses (for the nit-pickers: fighters generally put on armor and forget about it until they find a new suit, while mages need to recast their defensive spells when those spells cease working).

If you are going to play BG1, then a Fighter will likely start with more than twice the hp of a mage and have better armor as well. Surviving the very early game is therefore much easier. If you decide to roll up a mage, then just act somewhat cautiously until you get some companions and you'll be able to manage.

In BG2, mages have a lot more options for dealing with threats right from the start of the game. Their play style is still more complicated than a fighter's play style, but they have more options to prevent being squashed than they did at the very early levels.

Go ahead and play a mage. Just be careful about enemies that turn their hostile attention toward your mage. Speaking as a collect-everything player, you'll mostly be able to loot everything if you really dedicate yourself to it. It can be difficult because of limited backpack space versus sheer quantity of mostly worthless junk in some areas (ex. stacks of heavy, 2gp value halberds in the Gnoll Fortress), but it is possible.

Feel free to collect anything/everything that looks interesting or valuable, and leave behind stuff that you've confirmed isn't worth the bother. The PHB can help some, since the BG rule sets are based on 2nd ed, but reading the manual should be able to get you through most of what you need to know.

Some strategic reading of the monster manual wouldn't hurt, as long as you remember that specific stats may vary in the computer game. For example, knowing that basilisks have a petrifying stare, drow are generally magic resistant, and mind flayers drain intelligence on each hit can save you some trouble. Again, remember that the computer game will have some differences (like mind flayers can't grapple and perform an auto-kill after 4 successful hits, but the game will auto-kill any character that has a stat reach zero).

A mage will work. I recommend taking a wild mage, illusionist or conjurer instead of a standard mage so you get one more spell per day and spell level which makes quite a difference, you don't want to start with only one spellcasting per day.

"Sleep" is a powerful spell in the beginning.

As a mage you need maxed int, maxed dex and at least 16 con, 18 strength is also useful for carrying capacity and moments enemies get into melee range. If you get a roll of 93+ you can max all stats except wisdom.

I'd start with sling proficiency since slings have bigger range than darts or throwing daggers and use a quarterstaff for melee since daggers require getting very close to enemies.

I'd say take a generic Mage so you have no spell school restrictions. Just most lay use your sling until you have some extra spell slots. However, it is your choice.

I agree with the entire rest of this post.

Recommend you start off as a pure fighter, get the highest weapon specializations for whatever weapon you want. Then in BG2 switch to Mage class. You'll get the best, wear the best armour, highest hitpoints, then late game Mage and do all the fun stuff I've heard about. Still never got into BG2 since buying my copy of BG in 2001.

Oh we have an arcane caster here. Well well...

It is perfectly ok to be a mage in BG1 but you need to know what you are getting into. (I consider myself an expert in BG1 but a noob in BG2). Mages are almost useless until Level 5 when you get the lv3 spells. (Keep in mind that Level progression is slow in BG series and you finish the game at level7). Here are the reasons why.

1. Mages (Wizards and sorcerers) have D4 health which means 4 HP + 2 from 16 CON which results in 6 HP per level (until lv10). This is very low and critical because of reason 2.
2. You can not wear any armor or shield which results in a high Armor Class (AC). This means that almost anything can "hit" you.
3. You begin with only 1 spell memorization slot at level 1. Which means that you can cast a spell only once per rest.

Here is the page you want to read to know more about mages in BG.

So lets imagine a petty wolf is on the hunt for you. You hit it with your one spell. You hurt it. Then he charges at you and hit you easily because of your high AC (High is bad). It will also probably kill you because of your low health.

The BG for dummies link I have provided you earlier pretty much covers everything you need while creating your character. Sling is the best way to start for a mage as a proficiency. And then you can get Quarter staff because of its longer range. So you can hit skeletons with it while your real tank is getting intimate with them.

Do not play BG mage after you have played a mage in Diablo. This is not a game where you get hit and then drink tons of healing potions. the key to survive in BG is to not get hit to begin with. I remember a play-through where I have not drunk a single healing potion. In higher levels, Wizards turn into beasts where you can not even scratch them. But that's not happening in BG1. It would definitely help but do not forget that there are a few critical changes between 2.5 rules and BG rules. That's same for NWN series too where they use D&D3 (and 3.5) rules instead. I believe the game manual is more than enough.