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Aliens versus Predator Classic 2000Really don't like the idea of multiplayer being locked to the Galaxy client(26 posts)(26 posts)
(26 posts)
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This is my favourite topic
Posted October 21, 2014
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d2t: Food for thought:

1. if you want* matchmaking, achievements or any kind of feature-rich multiplayer, then an account system is a must: first because a lot of stuff is tied into an account (matchmaking, achievements, stats... etc), and secondly because you don't want to play with pirates (or at least I'm sure GOG doesn't want to allow 95% of their users to be owners of pirated game). And for this you either have to login to every game separately or just login into the client once - It's in the same way "DRM" as logging to GOG to download a new patch or new goodie - it's available to users who BOUGHT the game.

2. whether game offers LAN play or Direct-IP (rairty these days) depends really on the developer, not GOG.

* if you DON'T want... then you don't use Galaxy Client and the games on GOG remain as functional as they are today (meaning: multiplayer is rarity limtied only to games supporting direct-ip or lan)
1. I don't want matchmaking, achievements, etc. I just want to play with the people I live with. Secondly, if GOG didn't want pirates then they wouldn't have gone the route they have with games with zero DRM (until now that is). Their attraction has always been low prices and DRM free to get people to buy their products to support them. And I think that has worked out well. It's not the same as logging into GOG to download a patch because only 1 user needed to do for his 1 copy for his whole group of friends playing with him over multiplayer. Now, for AVP, every user needs an account just to play together.

2. I keep hearing this excuse: "If it didn't exist in the game in the first place (like LAN), then don't ask GOG to build it". Except GOG IS building something into these games: Galaxy. So it seems it's all good for them to offer this type of multiplayer, "but don't you dare ask for some other kind of multiplayer, that's going too far!"

And in the case of AVP, if I don't use Galaxy, it is absolutely NOT as functional since there is no multi-player without it. In other words, the message GOG is sending is, follow the rules with our new DRM client and you'll get all of the features. If you don't want the DRM, that's fine, but you don't get to play with your friends. That's a far cry from the Galaxy advertizing which touted this as "only a matchmaking service". Well, turns out it's quite a bit more than just matchmaking, it's the entire multiplayer experience.
Post edited October 21, 2014 by lumin
Posted October 22, 2014
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lumin: 1. I don't want matchmaking, achievements, etc. I just want to play with the people I live with. Secondly, if GOG didn't want pirates then they wouldn't have gone the route they have with games with zero DRM (until now that is). Their attraction has always been low prices and DRM free to get people to buy their products to support them. And I think that has worked out well. It's not the same as logging into GOG to download a patch because only 1 user needed to do for his 1 copy for his whole group of friends playing with him over multiplayer. Now, for AVP, every user needs an account just to play together.

2. I keep hearing this excuse: "If it didn't exist in the game in the first place (like LAN), then don't ask GOG to build it". Except GOG IS building something into these games: Galaxy. So it seems it's all good for them to offer this type of multiplayer, "but don't you dare ask for some other kind of multiplayer, that's going too far!"

And in the case of AVP, if I don't use Galaxy, it is absolutely NOT as functional since there is no multi-player without it. In other words, the message GOG is sending is, follow the rules with our new DRM client and you'll get all of the features. If you don't want the DRM, that's fine, but you don't get to play with your friends. That's a far cry from the Galaxy advertizing which touted this as "only a matchmaking service". Well, turns out it's quite a bit more than just matchmaking, it's the entire multiplayer experience.
We're not building anything into games - we don't own them / control them. It's developer's call in the end to add specific multi-player modes / technologies. Precisely this is why AvP could not be really released in functional form on GOG until now - because it offered only Steam multiplayer which now finally can be exchanged into Galaxy. If a game would offer LAN play or Direct-IP or any other obviously we'd keep this functionality intact.
Post edited October 22, 2014 by Destro
Posted October 22, 2014
Mh. I think DRM is an overused (and imho wrong) term here. GOG Galaxy client is an additional service. It was never stated that GOG removes LAN from existing games to force you to play multiplayer via Galaxy.
What is happening atm is *testing*. We are free to take part in beta test or let it be.
I have no concerns about that.
Posted October 22, 2014
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lumin: 1. I don't want matchmaking, achievements, etc. I just want to play with the people I live with.
Maybe you don't. But since it is optional im sure a lot of people will enjoy having such "option". or maybe you are someone who reserves the right of what features should and should not be available to all?

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lumin: Secondly, if GOG didn't want pirates then they wouldn't have gone the route they have with games with zero DRM (until now that is). Their attraction has always been low prices and DRM free to get people to buy their products to support them. And I think that has worked out well.
(a) If pirate downloads GOG game from torrent it does not affect GOG directly not its user base (let's not discuss theories on whether it is a lost sale or not).
(b) If pirate / cheater suddenly become majority of some GOG hosted online service and there is no way to exclude them (no accounts = no bans - IP can be spuffed 100x more easily than re-buying game at full price), it means super duper shitty experience for everyone else who bought the game legally and now has to play with cheaters or use a shitty service overtaken by owners of illegal copies = heck a lot of extra costs for GOG. I'd say it's very much different scenario.

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lumin: And in the case of AVP, if I don't use Galaxy, it is absolutely NOT as functional since there is no multi-player without it.
it's functional - the game just does not have any multiplayer right now other than Steamworks per developer / publisher decision. go knock on developer or publisher doors to express your dissatisfaction.

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lumin: In other words, the message GOG is sending is, follow the rules with our new DRM client and you'll get all of the features. If you don't want the DRM, that's fine, but you don't get to play with your friends. That's a far cry from the Galaxy advertizing which touted this as "only a matchmaking service". Well, turns out it's quite a bit more than just matchmaking, it's the entire multiplayer experience.
Optional and DRM? I'm sorry, but it does not belong to one sentence. Galaxy is additional thing you get on top of the game - you don't have to use it and nothing changes for you - games remain as they are, stripped of multiplayer options. Just as you have to login to GOG downloader to get additional download features. Nothing is removed, extra stuff is added on top - don't like it, don't use it, simple.
Post edited October 22, 2014 by d2t
Posted October 22, 2014
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lumin: 1. I don't want matchmaking, achievements, etc. I just want to play with the people I live with. Secondly, if GOG didn't want pirates then they wouldn't have gone the route they have with games with zero DRM (until now that is). Their attraction has always been low prices and DRM free to get people to buy their products to support them. And I think that has worked out well. It's not the same as logging into GOG to download a patch because only 1 user needed to do for his 1 copy for his whole group of friends playing with him over multiplayer. Now, for AVP, every user needs an account just to play together.

2. I keep hearing this excuse: "If it didn't exist in the game in the first place (like LAN), then don't ask GOG to build it". Except GOG IS building something into these games: Galaxy. So it seems it's all good for them to offer this type of multiplayer, "but don't you dare ask for some other kind of multiplayer, that's going too far!"

And in the case of AVP, if I don't use Galaxy, it is absolutely NOT as functional since there is no multi-player without it. In other words, the message GOG is sending is, follow the rules with our new DRM client and you'll get all of the features. If you don't want the DRM, that's fine, but you don't get to play with your friends. That's a far cry from the Galaxy advertizing which touted this as "only a matchmaking service". Well, turns out it's quite a bit more than just matchmaking, it's the entire multiplayer experience.
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Destro: We're not building anything into games - we don't own them / control them. It's developer's call in the end to add specific multi-player modes / technologies. Precisely this is why AvP could not be really released in functional form on GOG until now - because it offered only Steam multiplayer which now finally can be exchanged into Galaxy. If a game would offer LAN play or Direct-IP or any other obviously we'd keep this functionality intact.
Okay, I understand now. Thanks for clearing that up.

Still, it doesn't fix the problem of wanting to just play casually with your buddy under the same roof without all of the fuss of the Galaxy client. I guess the expectation for an old-school game like this is for there to be some kind of local play since every FPS of this era had it. I guess I just got spoiled with AVP Gold which had LAN (but will no longer run on modern machines).

If GOG could come up with a way for the Galaxy client to "mimic" LAN somehow, I'd be really happy with that.
Posted October 22, 2014
The key difference here is in the distribution method. With physical distribution it was possible to use one legit disc to spawn a multiplayer session across several computers despite all games being installed from one disc. It was a feature of the era in some respect and some publishers embraced it. I vaguely remember Need for Speed having that as well.

With digital distribution each game is registered to one account and the owner must login to make the purchase as well as download/install the game. Where GOG differs from other digital distributers is in what happens after the game is purchased and installed. The user is free to play the game without having to sign in to start the game, stay logged in to a service for the full duration of play, and there is no mandatory verification client/app/other that must be installed along with the game, and definetly no damn manual checks. The only time a GOG user must sign in is to buy games or download them or their patches. Well forum activity as well, but that's not the point.

However if a game on GOG is to feature modern multiplayer then signing in becomes neccesary IF and only IF the user wants to access these multiplayer features and only WHEN the user wants to play a specific game online. When online play is not wanted, Galaxy is unneeded and can be ignored to the point of never needing to even install it (obviously not the case with this beta test).
Posted October 24, 2014
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brainyguy100: On top of that, there is an application extension named "Galaxy.dll", which is apparently a very important asset to the game, as it wouldn't launch without it. It also makes me wonder what exactly it does, aside from probably offering Galaxy functionality, if it's a required asset to run the game. It may be an extension that serves a completely different purpose, but if not, then that isn't the most optional approach to this kind of client.
I would expect that this library will not be included in any game for the final version of the Galaxy client but rather gets loaded dynamically from the Galaxy client when it's installed. But I'm sure GOG will find a good way to make the Galaxy client truely optional and keep the individual games as independent of it as possible (all multiplayer enabled games still will need a hook to load such a library, but only these, and they should load the library only when you actually start the multiplayer mode).
Posted November 07, 2014
I remember a time when my friends and I making LAN-Parties playing AVP all night (using an ATI with 2MB). Barely remember an option to search by TCP/IP or IPX, myabe I wrong about the protocols but we made LAN games in AVP.

Old IPX = Old Happy LAN-Times
Posted November 07, 2014
How I'm seeing this so far is similar to something like, GameSpy for example. I only found myself logging in to play multiplayer in Aliens vs. Predator 2000. I don't think there's even a dedicated server, aside from a matchmaking server/service that lets others find games or host them. Even if I choose to play without the Galaxy Client (as it's called at the moment), it will start and play like any other GOG game I have.

Also, keep in mind this is a BETA! That's the keyword! Those of us who signed up did get a free game, but in return we're helping improve GOG's service for multiplayer at least by playing and providing feedback. Maybe the end result may be different, maybe not. Only time can tell.

It's worth noting, some GOG games, like Duke Nukem 3D or Screamer, can be played online via port forwarding and direct IP addresses. I really like that option as it doesn't require a "service" to play, just one player hosts and the other joins. Even with Galaxy, I'd like that option to stay at least.

My tiny concern, are we going to get a "client" with every game or is this going to be more or less like a DRM-free Steam? I imagine some games would have a friends list to make playing with friends easier.
Post edited November 07, 2014 by tailsy64
Posted November 27, 2014
I gotta say, man, I really don't like the way this Galaxy thing is shaping up to be. It seems that it will become something of a steam-lite kind of thing. And one thing I definitely don't like is the way AVP is connected to Galaxy, rendering it unplayable for anyone who wants to grab a quick lan game through Tunngle with his buddies who don't own the game. I mean, fuck man, I have played through untold hours of Neverwinter Nights Diamond edition with my buddy through Tunngle, and that would never have happened if I didn't buy the game and shared it with my buddy through my GoG account. Not everybody can afford or want to/feel like buying a game just to play one paltry nights worth of multiplayer with a buddy, you know. And how long now, before Neverwinter Nights and all the other games with MP get locked up into the Galaxy ecosystem? How long before we all live in a world where it's not possible anymore to just share a game with a buddy for some quick, fun coop action without both having to buy the game?
This ain't the fucking Good Old Games I started supporting back in the day, and I refuse to buy any more games from them until this shit has been fixed. Because this is fucking bullshit, is what it is. I bought AVP immediately when it came out on GoG because I remembered when I used to play it with my buddies way back in the day, and I bought it on the strength of that nostalgia factor alone, and now when I tried to play it with my buddy through Tunngle we discovered that it was completely impossible to play as-is, but that we both need to own the game and be logged into Galaxy in order to play simple fucking LAN! That is just completely, and utterly fucking unacceptable. I bought this fucking game, I deserve to actually OWN it and be able to do whatever the fuck I want with it, god damn it! If this shit keeps up, the same thing that happened to Steam is just going to start happening to GoG. People are going to pirate games and crack them in order to play MP on them. The irony of this situation is unfortunately not lost on me...
Posted November 27, 2014
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caligero3000: I gotta say, man, I really don't like the way this Galaxy thing is shaping up to be. It seems that it will become something of a steam-lite kind of thing. And one thing I definitely don't like is the way AVP is connected to Galaxy, rendering it unplayable for anyone who wants to grab a quick lan game through Tunngle with his buddies who don't own the game. I mean, fuck man, I have played through untold hours of Neverwinter Nights Diamond edition with my buddy through Tunngle, and that would never have happened if I didn't buy the game and shared it with my buddy through my GoG account. Not everybody can afford or want to/feel like buying a game just to play one paltry nights worth of multiplayer with a buddy, you know. And how long now, before Neverwinter Nights and all the other games with MP get locked up into the Galaxy ecosystem? How long before we all live in a world where it's not possible anymore to just share a game with a buddy for some quick, fun coop action without both having to buy the game?
This ain't the fucking Good Old Games I started supporting back in the day, and I refuse to buy any more games from them until this shit has been fixed. Because this is fucking bullshit, is what it is. I bought AVP immediately when it came out on GoG because I remembered when I used to play it with my buddies way back in the day, and I bought it on the strength of that nostalgia factor alone, and now when I tried to play it with my buddy through Tunngle we discovered that it was completely impossible to play as-is, but that we both need to own the game and be logged into Galaxy in order to play simple fucking LAN! That is just completely, and utterly fucking unacceptable. I bought this fucking game, I deserve to actually OWN it and be able to do whatever the fuck I want with it, god damn it! If this shit keeps up, the same thing that happened to Steam is just going to start happening to GoG. People are going to pirate games and crack them in order to play MP on them. The irony of this situation is unfortunately not lost on me...
The LAN functionality was removed by the game's developers when they created this "Classic 2000" version. GOG team has absolutely nothing to do with it:
http://www.gog.com/forum/aliens_versus_predator_classic_2000/really_dont_like_the_idea_of_multiplayer_being_locked_to_the_galaxy_client/post17
When will people learn to read the thread before posting in it, sigh.
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Aliens versus Predator Classic 2000Really don't like the idea of multiplayer being locked to the Galaxy client(26 posts)(26 posts)
(26 posts)