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Ultima 4, update 1.

Ultimas 4 and 5 are probably the ones I spent the most time on in the past. Never got especially far in 4, was not efficient in grinding up the virtues. Doing quite a bit better this time, started as the Druid, progress so far:

Avatar-to-be is level 7, with the entire party except for Katrina.

Went around to all the towns right away to pick up the runes (though Valor took a bit extra time, forgot I needed keys and regents for dispel field spells on my first Jhelom visit).

Got everyone equipped with bows (except Mariah, stuck with a sling). Previous times I believe I insisted on running up and fighting everything up close.

Grabbed the Black stone while in Moonglow.

Had a repeat of Ultima 3 fun, waiting for a boat, though I finally got one a little while ago. Now I have three, technically. Nice, since I have to throw one at a whirlpool, when I can.

Grinded up the virtues and visited the shrines, partial Avatar in all eight virtues, for the first time.

Grabbed the other pre-Abyss, non-Cove boat necessities (Mystic Weapons, Mystic Armor, Bell, Book, Horn, Wheel, Skull of my old buddy Mondain).

Running out of non-dungeon things to do, the two big annoyances left there being finding the whirlpool and getting the White Stone (I suppose I could use the baloon for both, but I hate the Baloon almost as much as as the Ultima 1 spaceships).

Edit: Or I guess the Blink spell works, I got to Cove and the Candle that way, as well as the White Stone. Of course the whirlpool finally shows up around British's castle right after that, as Avatar-to-be hits level 8. Grabbed Katrina, just because it was the only thing left that had to be done, that did not involve dungeons. Nothing left before going into those, except maybe getting stronger ranged weapons and leveling non-Avatar characters.
Post edited May 02, 2021 by suchiuomizu
I hate food. I finally made my first attempt at a dungeon, Despise, since it had its stone on the second highest level and I did not feel like sailing around the continent to Shame (and couldn't get the blink to land me at the entrance from the Britain side of the mountains). I was doing alright, even was considering using the stat orb on the way to the stone...then I found the Gremlin room. I hate Gremlins. It was my first time seeing them in this playthrough, but I have never seen them in such hideous numbers and while they die relatively easily, my characters were missing too often to keep them away. Especially annoying it was the last room before the orb that could have helped the hit rate issues.
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suchiuomizu: I hate food. I finally made my first attempt at a dungeon, Despise, since it had its stone on the second highest level and I did not feel like sailing around the continent to Shame (and couldn't get the blink to land me at the entrance from the Britain side of the mountains). I was doing alright, even was considering using the stat orb on the way to the stone...then I found the Gremlin room. I hate Gremlins. It was my first time seeing them in this playthrough, but I have never seen them in such hideous numbers and while they die relatively easily, my characters were missing too often to keep them away. Especially annoying it was the last room before the orb that could have helped the hit rate issues.
I remember that room; it's easily one of the notorious dungeon rooms in the game, though at least there's no risk of death by sleep.

You could have continued on while starving, and had somebody touch the orb to boost their DEX; you don't need to survive to keep the bonus.

Casting Tremmor (spell name has 2 "m"s for some reason) can help; it will likely kill a fair number of enemies in the room, and some of those that are left will start to flee.

(By the way, in the NES version, there's no food mechanic, so that particular room is a non-threat. Then again, there aren't as many enemies in the room, and attacks (on both sides) don't miss nearly as often. Also, the NES version is limited to 8 enemies per room, and I'm pretty sure the original room here has more than that.)
After that post I realized the easy/quick way to make gold at this point (sell mystic weapons, buy stuff, get more mystic weapons and repeat).

I should be in a much strong position next time I try. Everyone finally has their strongest ranged weapons, I mixed up a bunch of most of the spells I wanted, though I am a little reluctant mix Tremor right now. I mixed everything I wanted that did not involve Mandrake and/or Nightshade. I've only had 12 Mandrake so far and zero Nightshade ever. Stocking up on those two may regents be one last over world thing to do (Tremor, Jinx, Negate and Resurrect are the spells I would like to get mixed still once I have decent numbers of those).

Also now currently have 4,325 food, which would hopefully be enough to last the rest of the game, even with bad Gremlin luck.

Though now, I see the trick to more easily getting more of Mandrake/Nightshade through reload too, on the return for more Mandrake (even better, I have a chest on the Mandrake spot from the first time, so I can get it without getting poisoned). Will go grab a bunch of Nightshade after finishing Mandrake.
Post edited May 04, 2021 by suchiuomizu
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suchiuomizu: After that post I realized the easy/quick way to make gold at this point (sell mystic weapons, buy stuff, get more mystic weapons and repeat).

I should be in a much strong position next time I try. Everyone finally has their strongest ranged weapons, I mixed up a bunch of most of the spells I wanted, though I am a little reluctant mix Tremor right now. I mixed everything I wanted that did not involve Mandrake and/or Nightshade. I've only had 12 Mandrake so far and zero Nightshade ever. Stocking up on those two may regents be one last over world thing to do (Tremor, Jinx, Negate and Resurrect are the spells I would like to get mixed still once I have decent numbers of those).

Also now currently have 4,325 food, which would hopefully be enough to last the rest of the game, even with bad Gremlin luck.

Though now, I see the trick to more easily getting more of Mandrake/Nightshade through reload too, on the return for more Mandrake (even better, I have a chest on the Mandrake spot from the first time, so I can get it without getting poisoned). Will go grab a bunch of Nightshade after finishing Mandrake.
Even though it was over 30 years ago I can remember fighting those gremlins. I was always very tight with spellcasting although I must admit I had a real hatred for gremlins and hit them every round with a couple of fireballs spells.
Just wait until you in the underground area in Ultima 5 and fighting hordes of mongbats!
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suchiuomizu: After that post I realized the easy/quick way to make gold at this point (sell mystic weapons, buy stuff, get more mystic weapons and repeat).

I should be in a much strong position next time I try. Everyone finally has their strongest ranged weapons, I mixed up a bunch of most of the spells I wanted, though I am a little reluctant mix Tremor right now. I mixed everything I wanted that did not involve Mandrake and/or Nightshade. I've only had 12 Mandrake so far and zero Nightshade ever. Stocking up on those two may regents be one last over world thing to do (Tremor, Jinx, Negate and Resurrect are the spells I would like to get mixed still once I have decent numbers of those).

Also now currently have 4,325 food, which would hopefully be enough to last the rest of the game, even with bad Gremlin luck.

Though now, I see the trick to more easily getting more of Mandrake/Nightshade through reload too, on the return for more Mandrake (even better, I have a chest on the Mandrake spot from the first time, so I can get it without getting poisoned). Will go grab a bunch of Nightshade after finishing Mandrake.
It might be me, but I just never found Nightshade to be worth gathering at all. It's in a less obvious spot (so I usually need the Sextant to find it, but there was at least one playthrough where I found it without because the spot just felt right), and the spells that require it just aren't that great.

Mandrake, on the other hand, has Gate (nice timesaver, too bad it requires max level to cast in Ultima 5) and Tremmor (best offensive spell, no other attack spell is really worth using in this game because of ranged weapons, especially once you can afford Magic Wands).

(In the NES version, Resurrect needs both Nightshade and Mandrake, so it might be worthwhile there, but main character death is game over (ao no using it for more main character orb usage), and it's useless in the NES version's Abyss because you're along there anyway.)

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suchiuomizu: Though now, I see the trick to more easily getting more of Mandrake/Nightshade through reload too, on the return for more Mandrake (even better, I have a chest on the Mandrake spot from the first time, so I can get it without getting poisoned). Will go grab a bunch of Nightshade after finishing Mandrake.
I belice that if you take a certain number of steps (I believe 15), the Mandrake will respawn, even if it's still the same new moon (possible on slower systems or on the SMS version).
Post edited May 05, 2021 by dtgreene
After Despise, I went and did the last thing to improve my characters other than levels, went in and out of Hythloth, using the floor 1 orb and a LOT of resurrection to get everyone’s strength/dex/int maxed out. As one might expect, dungeons have become much less painful. Got 7 out of 8 eight stones, and after the 7th have been trying to get the two parts of the Three Part Key I have the stones before leaving the current dungeon. In the first altar room now, but it is not very clear how to use the stones there.
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suchiuomizu: After Despise, I went and did the last thing to improve my characters other than levels, went in and out of Hythloth, using the floor 1 orb and a LOT of resurrection to get everyone’s strength/dex/int maxed out. As one might expect, dungeons have become much less painful. Got 7 out of 8 eight stones, and after the 7th have been trying to get the two parts of the Three Part Key I have the stones before leaving the current dungeon. In the first altar room now, but it is not very clear how to use the stones there.
I often just deathwarp; if your party wipes, you end up back at Lord British, with gold and food set to 200, and any equipment not currently equipped lost. Nothing else is lost; no XP, no equipped items, no reagents/spells/quest items, no virtue (according to some reports, this might even raise Sacrifice).

(In the NES version, you don't lose *any* items, not even equipment that isn't equipped, and gold is set to 400. With money being harder to get in the NES version, one strategy is to use the money to buy a sword and then deathwarp on purpose. Unfortunately, this orb requires a key, and the key in the NES version costs 2,000 (but is re-usable). Also, the death warp is more important here, as main character death is game over on NES, and to avoid more powerful enemies appearing it's best to stay at level 4 (required for ships).)
Should be done with 4 tonight, finished the stones and key, made a final reagent restock and visit to Lord British (non-Avatar characters are all levels 5 or 6, except Katrina at 3). Sailed my way down to the entrance to the Abyss and switched everyone to mystic swords. Will enter the Abyss a little later.

Edit: Switched back to ranged for everyone except Geoffrey and Katrina, realizing any magical weapon works in the Abyss.
Post edited May 06, 2021 by suchiuomizu
And four is finished. Abyss was certainly more trouble than other dungeons, but not as bad as I thought it might be (or could have been if I was wandering mapless).
5 will start if I can ever figure out how to get the transfer to work (trying to use the Ultima Patcher fix for that, but it isn't working)

Finally got the transfer to work. Level 5 Avatar with 25/25/25 stats.
Post edited May 06, 2021 by suchiuomizu
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suchiuomizu: Edit: Switched back to ranged for everyone except Geoffrey and Katrina, realizing any magical weapon works in the Abyss.
It's always puzzled me why, in addition to lacking magic, Geoffrey does not get any magical ranged weapons; this is not what I would call "balance". I can understand Katrina, as she's in a class that's intentionally weak, but I can't understand why they didn't give the Fighter the best weapons.

In Ultima 4 (non-NES), I prefer to run through the game with just one character, as it goes much faster, then recruit everyone just before the Abyss but let them all die. (You do need to recruit everyone, or else the dungeon kicks you out at the very end; I *have* reached the end solo, though it is a bit rough.) An intermediate option is to just go with Mage, Druid, and Bard, giving them all Magic Wands, and everyone else left dead; 3 characters makes combat a bit more manageable than just 1, and not as unwieldy as having all 8.

Also, Magic Axe > Magic Bow.

(In Ultima 4 NES, you go through the Abyss solo, but it's an easier version, with some rooms identical to rooms from earlier dungeons. Also, Ultima 4 NES allows you to equip a melee weapon and a bow at the same time.)
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suchiuomizu: And four is finished. Abyss was certainly more trouble than other dungeons, but not as bad as I thought it might be (or could have been if I was wandering mapless).
Or if you had your entire party put to sleep in that one room.

(One trick is to intentionally poison your characters so they can't be put to sleep. However, at least one path will have you going through sleep fields the previous room, which will remove the poison, so you will need to cast Energy to re-apply it.)

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suchiuomizu: 5 will start if I can ever figure out how to get the transfer to work (trying to use the Ultima Patcher fix for that, but it isn't working)

Finally got the transfer to work. Level 5 Avatar with 25/25/25 stats.
Fun fact: It's actually possible to transfer a character who has 30 in all stats. The transfer program will accept characters with stats as high as 70, which gets converted to 30, despite the fact that you can't legitimately get stats above 50 in Ultima 4. (Characters with stats above 70 will be rejected, so they *did* put a check in, but it still allows stats that can only be obtained through cheating.)

Also, if you transfer a character who hasn't yet reached Avatarhood, they'll retain their class, even if the class doesn't exist in Ultima 5. Be aware, however, that any character who isn't an Avatar, Mage, or Bard can't regain MP when resting.

Let me guess: Your Avatar started Ultima 5 with 999 XP, correct?
Post edited May 06, 2021 by dtgreene
Level 5, but 927 experience, rather than 999.
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suchiuomizu: Level 5, but 927 experience, rather than 999.
So, that means you ended Ultima 4 with somewhere in the range of 9270 and 9279 experience points. Would that be correct?

(Specifically, the XP value on the save file that's used to transfer is what matters here.)
She had 9,272 on the final U4 save. Of course, I was letting other characters get the vast majority kills after she hit level 8, that only changed when I got into the Abyss, would have been nice if I could have saved with that experience.

Ultima 5 so far. I expect this one to go slower, though I got a number of the quick/easy stuff out of the way:

Since Iolo's hut was in the area, first ran over to Empath Abbey for the grapple. Moved down to Britain, but did not do anything there immediately. Then went to Minoc for Skull Keys. After getting 10 of those returned to Britain. Looted Lord British's castle, first to the roof for the box and magic carpet, then to my long time favorite place, the basement treasure room. Doing 2 or 3 trips there, and a bunch of saving and reloading while in there, I got five magic axes among other things. In Britain I sold off much of the extra treasure and bought myself a boat in the Brittanys, also recruited Gwenno. Got the plans of the HMS Cape from the Britannys as well. Did a Shrine of Compassion quest too, just because it was close and got me one of the five missing dex.