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DSMTyralion: Hi In_Effect, I was thinking about using this build as a base for a two weapon fighter with DEX.
I was thinking to keep the Monk-Dip and the 9 Figher-Levels for Effortles Dual-Wield, and fill the rest with Vivisectionist. Or would Slayer be better? As far as I know more attacks vs. more sneak-attack dice.
I would remove the Dragon Diciple because DEX-build. Is the bard needed? What is it for anyways?
Do you think that would be viable? I would use your idea of going armorless, so Scaled Fist. Ditch Armor Focus etc. and get Weapon Finesse and I think slashing grace (?).

Or would you suggest somethink completly different for Dex Two Weapon Fighting?
Keeping Alchemist would be nice I think for the self buffs, Shield etc.
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InEffect: Effortless fighting is a meme thing. Most anything is better, really. Like kukris, for example. Really, though, if you are playing dex main question should be: "how do I ramp AB" as the ways of doing that are kinda limited.
Second consideration is "how does the thing survive". Combine the two in once character and you've got yourself a passable dex build. Naturally, it means either slayer or vivisectionist. With the latter also solving the AC problem it's always the better thing to do. Something like https://www.gog.com/forum/pathfinder_kingmaker/ineffect_builds_for_you/post223 or https://www.gog.com/forum/pathfinder_kingmaker/ineffect_builds_for_you/post154 is naturally how things go.
Archaeologist in the build above allows for DD levels, provides mirror image, and gives UD. Pretty noice.
Thanks for your answer. :)
Likeing this one better: https://www.gog.com/forum/pathfinder_kingmaker/ineffect_builds_for_you/post223
So if I get this right you're suggestion not trying to get effortless Dual Wield. Ok, it sounded nice, but I will survive without it, wanted mainly be a Two Weapon User.
But if possible not a Knife Master, wanted to use bigger weapons. Is it possible to replace the Knife Master with normal Rogue? Or Fighter? I am still thinking about the Shortswords I asked you some weeks ago :) Or any other bigger weapon.
Also would use Human or Aasimar (for style reasons).

I guess for Strength it would start with monk, den vivi, at some point DD? As we would skip the Fighter for effortless DW as suggested?
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DSMTyralion: Thanks for your answer. :)
Likeing this one better: https://www.gog.com/forum/pathfinder_kingmaker/ineffect_builds_for_you/post223
So if I get this right you're suggestion not trying to get effortless Dual Wield. Ok, it sounded nice, but I will survive without it, wanted mainly be a Two Weapon User.
But if possible not a Knife Master, wanted to use bigger weapons. Is it possible to replace the Knife Master with normal Rogue? Or Fighter? I am still thinking about the Shortswords I asked you some weeks ago :) Or any other bigger weapon.
Also would use Human or Aasimar (for style reasons).

I guess for Strength it would start with monk, den vivi, at some point DD? As we would skip the Fighter for effortless DW as suggested?
For strength it's basically Vivisectionist12/archae2/DD4+whatever2. Pretty much trip vivisectionist, but without trips and d/w talents instead.
As for dex builds... Well KM just adds 1 average damage to all sneak dice. Might as well grab thug if you don't feel like using smaller weapons.
Technically one could make aldori9/V3/monk1/+whatever and just suffer through to agile dueling swords using agile rapier from one of stag henchmen+agile kukri that is hidden there or agile pick from old sycamore. That is certainly an option. Would probably have to do divine hunter 2 there to use crossbows somewhat competently and avoid some earlygame suffer
Post edited June 12, 2019 by InEffect
Str D/W for Rapsdjfff

Race: Human

Alignment: LG

Stats:
Str: 18 > 22
Dex: 14
Con: 12
Int: 14
Wis: 7
Cha: 15 > 16 @ 4

Final Build: Monk(Scaled Fist) 1/Paladin(Divine Guardian)2/Alchemist(Vivisectionist) 16/Rogue(Knife Master) 1

Main skills: Mobility 3. Persuasion (Max), Trickery
Suggested secondary skills: Athletics 1, Stealth 1, Some UMD, whatever else you fancy

Lvl 1: Paladin - Weapon Focus: Kukri // Dodge
Lvl 2: Monk - Crane Style
Lvl 3: Alchemist - Accomplished Sneak Attacker
Lvl 4: Alchemist - Feral Mutagen
Lvl 5: Alchemist - Two-Weapon Fighting(+2 item)
Lvl 6: Alchemist - Combat Trick > Crane Wing
Lvl 7: Alchemist - Outflank
Lvl 8: Alchemist - Combat Trick > Dazzling Display
Lvl 9: Alchemist - Improved Two-Weapon Fighting(+4 item)
Lvl 10: Alchemist - Combat Trick > Shatter Defenses
Lvl 11: Alchemist - Intimidating Prowess
Lvl 12: Alchemist - Crippling Strike
Lvl 13: Alchemist - Improved Critical: Kukri
Lvl 14: Alchemist - Greater Mutagen
Lvl 15: Paladin - Greater Two-Weapon Fighting(+6 item)
Lvl 16: Alchemist
Lvl 17: Alchemist - Crane Riposte // Feral Wings
Lvl 18: Alchemist
Lvl 19: Alchemist - Double Slice // Grand Mutagen
Lvl 20: Knife Master

Spells: Shield, Reduce Person, True Strike, Barkskin, Restoration(Lesser), Displacement, Haste, Delay Poison(Communal), Greater Invisibility, False Life(Greater), Echolocation, Stoneskin(Communal), Transformation, Legendary Proportions
Gear: kikris, monk robes, AC gear, Stat gear

Something like that. He won’t be passing trip vivi in damage, not in a million years, but it’s solid enough. Could be done as an orc with double axe if you are into kinky stuff, I guess(although I haven't tested if that extra damage from off-hand procs sneak). Would be a whole lot better with weasel kukris, but I have no idea if they added those somewhere in EE.

If you have nothing better to do you can test that +5orc battle axe from endgame ruins with sneak and see. I am interested myself, but don't have the time for it right now.
Post edited June 12, 2019 by InEffect
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DSMTyralion: Thanks for your answer. :)
Likeing this one better: https://www.gog.com/forum/pathfinder_kingmaker/ineffect_builds_for_you/post223
So if I get this right you're suggestion not trying to get effortless Dual Wield. Ok, it sounded nice, but I will survive without it, wanted mainly be a Two Weapon User.
But if possible not a Knife Master, wanted to use bigger weapons. Is it possible to replace the Knife Master with normal Rogue? Or Fighter? I am still thinking about the Shortswords I asked you some weeks ago :) Or any other bigger weapon.
Also would use Human or Aasimar (for style reasons).

I guess for Strength it would start with monk, den vivi, at some point DD? As we would skip the Fighter for effortless DW as suggested?
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InEffect: For strength it's basically Vivisectionist12/archae2/DD4+whatever2. Pretty much trip vivisectionist, but without trips and d/w talents instead.
As for dex builds... Well KM just adds 1 average damage to all sneak dice. Might as well grab thug if you don't feel like using smaller weapons.
Technically one could make aldori9/V3/monk1/+whatever and just suffer through to agile dueling swords using agile rapier from one of stag henchmen+agile kukri that is hidden there or agile pick from old sycamore. That is certainly an option. Would probably have to do divine hunter 2 there to use crossbows somewhat competently and avoid some earlygame suffer
Ok, thank you. I am going to toy around with it a little bit when I have the time :)
Roguish Archer for pen311

Race: Aasimar(Musetouched)

Alignment: LG

Stats:
Str: 14
Dex: 18 > 22
Con: 12
Int: 14
Wis: 7
Cha: 17 > 18 @ 20

Final Build: Paladin(Divine Hunter) 2/Magus(Eldritch Archer) 2/Alchemist(Vivisectionist) 16

Main skills: Persuasion (Max), Trickery
Suggested secondary skills: Athletics 1+, Some UMD, whatever else you fancy

Lvl 1: Paladin - Rapid Shot
Lvl 2: Magus
Lvl 3: Alchemist - Accomplished Sneak Attacker
Lvl 4: Magus
Lvl 5: Alchemist - Weapon Focus: Longbow // Combat Trick > Dazzling Display
Lvl 6: Alchemist
Lvl 7: Alchemist - Point-Blank Shot // Combat Trick > Intimidating Prowess
Lvl 8: Alchemist -
Lvl 9: Alchemist - Manyshot // Combat Trick > Shatter Defenses
Lvl 10: Alchemist
Lvl 11: Alchemist - Improved Critical: Longbow // Clustered Shots
Lvl 12: Alchemist
Lvl 13: Alchemist - Power Attack // Crippling Strike
Lvl 14: Alchemist -
Lvl 15: Alchemist - Dreadful Carnage // Greater Mutagen
Lvl 16: Paladin
Lvl 17: Alchemist - Improved Precise Shot
Lvl 18: Alchemist - Dispelling Attack
Lvl 19: Alchemist - Hammer The Gap
Lvl 20: Alchemist - Grand Mutagen

Alchemist Spells: Shield, Reduce Person, True Strike, Barkskin, Restoration(Lesser), Displacement, Haste, Delay Poison(Communal), Greater Invisibility, False Life(Greater), Echolocation, Stoneskin(Communal), Transformation, Legendary Proportions

EA spells: True strike

Gear: Whatever bow you fancy, +AB gear, +Stat gear

There you go. That’s the most damage you can get out of the rogue-type archer. Don’t even bother with AC, it’ll be garbage anyways. Look for enchanted robes.

EA is taken to right-click any cantrip and forget about it. Extra shot is extra shot.

Pally will give you smite for extra damage, 1 Feat and Cha saves. Decent deal.
Post edited June 12, 2019 by InEffect
Hey InEffect,

First just wanted to say how cool it is you're doing this. Newbs like me really appreciate it.

That said, my build request is probably going to bore you. Never played PF before, not familiar with it, so I'm not going to be doing any crazy soloing on Hard or anything.

Basically I just want a good Knife Master/Slayer multiclass build, OR, a build that dual wields with dueling swords. Whichever one you think would be more efficient.

Total RP build, so I know it's not optimal, but I'd really like to only use Rogue, Slayer, Fighter, Barbarian, or Ranger levels, or any of their subclasses, but nothing else.
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InEffect: Roguish Archer for pen311

Race: Aasimar(Musetouched)

Alignment: LG

Stats:
Str: 14
Dex: 18 > 22
Con: 12
Int: 14
Wis: 7
Cha: 17 > 18 @ 20

Final Build: Paladin(Divine Hunter) 2/Magus(Eldritch Archer) 2/Alchemist(Vivisectionist) 16

Main skills: Persuasion (Max), Trickery
Suggested secondary skills: Athletics 1+, Some UMD, whatever else you fancy

Lvl 1: Paladin - Rapid Shot
Lvl 2: Magus
Lvl 3: Alchemist - Accomplished Sneak Attacker
Lvl 4: Magus
Lvl 5: Alchemist - Weapon Focus: Longbow // Combat Trick > Dazzling Display
Lvl 6: Alchemist
Lvl 7: Alchemist - Point-Blank Shot // Combat Trick > Intimidating Prowess
Lvl 8: Alchemist -
Lvl 9: Alchemist - Manyshot // Combat Trick > Shatter Defenses
Lvl 10: Alchemist
Lvl 11: Alchemist - Improved Critical: Longbow // Clustered Shots
Lvl 12: Alchemist
Lvl 13: Alchemist - Power Attack // Crippling Strike
Lvl 14: Alchemist -
Lvl 15: Alchemist - Dreadful Carnage // Greater Mutagen
Lvl 16: Paladin
Lvl 17: Alchemist - Improved Precise Shot
Lvl 18: Alchemist - Dispelling Attack
Lvl 19: Alchemist - Hammer The Gap
Lvl 20: Alchemist - Grand Mutagen

Alchemist Spells: Shield, Reduce Person, True Strike, Barkskin, Restoration(Lesser), Displacement, Haste, Delay Poison(Communal), Greater Invisibility, False Life(Greater), Echolocation, Stoneskin(Communal), Transformation, Legendary Proportions

EA spells: True strike

Gear: Whatever bow you fancy, +AB gear, +Stat gear

There you go. That’s the most damage you can get out of the rogue-type archer. Don’t even bother with AC, it’ll be garbage anyways. Look for enchanted robes.

EA is taken to right-click any cantrip and forget about it. Extra shot is extra shot.

Pally will give you smite for extra damage, 1 Feat and Cha saves. Decent deal.
Thank You!
RP/dw/Dueling swords for RedCope

Race: Aasimar(Musetouched)

Alignment: LE(I just feel it’s fitting. Any non-neutral will do, also LE is the best for kingdom management stuff)

Stats:
Str: 10
Dex: 19 > 24
Con: 14
Int: 12
Wis: 10
Cha: 16

Final Build: Rogue* 4/Fighter(Aldori Defender) 10/Slayer(Spawn Slayer) 6
*Can be thug if you have someone else to dazzle. Enemies running around are not always fun.

Main skills: Mobility 3, Persuasion (Max), Trickery(18), Perception(Max)
Suggested secondary skills: Athletics 1+, Stealth 1+

Lvl 1: Rogue - Dodge
Lvl 2: Rogue - Combat Trick > Improved Unarmed Strike
Lvl 3: Rogue - Crane Style // Finesse Training: Dueling Sword
Lvl 4: Rogue - Combat Trick > Two-Weapon Fighting
Lvl 5: Fighter - Dazzling Display // Outflank
Lvl 6: Fighter - Crane Wing
Lvl 7: Fighter - Improved Two-Weapon Fighting
Lvl 8: Fighter - Double Slice
Lvl 9: Fighter - Shatter Defenses // Heavy Blades
Lvl 10: Fighter
Lvl 11: Fighter - Improved Critical: Dueling Sword
Lvl 12: Fighter
Lvl 13: Fighter - Greater Two-Weapon Fighting // Effortless Dual-Wielding // Heavy Blades
Lvl 14: Slayer
Lvl 15: Slayer - Wings // Combat Trick > Crane Riposte
Lvl 16: Slayer
Lvl 17: Slayer - Weapon Focus: Dueling Sword // Combat Trick > GWF: Dueling Sword
Lvl 18: Slayer
Lvl 19: Slayer - Accomplished Sneak Attacker // Combat Trick > Weapon Specialization
Lvl 20: Fighter

Gear: Bloodhound+Arcane enforcer, Oppressor, Paragon of Defenders, Gyronna amulet, Stat belt, Gloves of valor, Bracers of deflection, Castigator/Absolver cloak, Opportunist’s Boots, Dreamer ring, Ring of Circumstances(+Dex,+AC,+Skills,+Speed)

Pretty straight-forward build. Nothing too unusual about it. Finish prologue in 30 days to get +2 Dueling Sword. Use dueling sword+light weapon(arcane Protector would work nicely) till lvl 13.

Sinse unspecified I assumed you have all DLC’s.
Post edited June 12, 2019 by InEffect
Thanks bud. I'm surprised there are so many Fighter levels in there - I figured the Sneak Attack dice from either Rogue or Slayer would be more preferable. But that's why I ask the experts.

How do you think that would stack up to a Knife Master/Slayer multiclass in terms of damage?
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RedCope: Thanks bud. I'm surprised there are so many Fighter levels in there - I figured the Sneak Attack dice from either Rogue or Slayer would be more preferable. But that's why I ask the experts.

How do you think that would stack up to a Knife Master/Slayer multiclass in terms of damage?
You wanted to d/w dueling swords. That means effortless dual-wielding. No way around it.
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RedCope: Thanks bud. I'm surprised there are so many Fighter levels in there - I figured the Sneak Attack dice from either Rogue or Slayer would be more preferable. But that's why I ask the experts.

How do you think that would stack up to a Knife Master/Slayer multiclass in terms of damage?
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InEffect: You wanted to d/w dueling swords. That means effortless dual-wielding. No way around it.
Yeah, either that or Knife Master with daggers, whichever one you think would be better in the long run.
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RedCope: Yeah, either that or Knife Master with daggers, whichever one you think would be better in the long run.
Well, I kinda thought you didn't like dying all the time. And stacking some armor was the no-brainer way to do it. With buff it'll be around 60-65 AC with top gear which is more than enough for challenging. Rogue/slayer would be inevitably made of paper and it'd be a needless suffer. Also It's more fun this way.
PS. Choose red and/or gold color scheme. Looks awesome with oppressor.
Post edited June 13, 2019 by InEffect
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RedCope: Yeah, either that or Knife Master with daggers, whichever one you think would be better in the long run.
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InEffect: Well, I kinda thought you didn't like dying all the time. And stacking some armor was the no-brainer way to do it. With buff it'll be around 60-65 AC with top gear which is more than enough for challenging. Rogue/slayer would be inevitably made of paper and it'd be a needless suffer. Also It's more fun this way.
PS. Choose red and/or gold color scheme. Looks awesome with oppressor.
Sounds good. Thanks again for the input!

It's kinda wild how much opinions vary on what actually works in this game. Ask Reddit and they'll tell you Knife Master is the hands-down best melee DPS in the game, though they won't really tell you why.

Also, maybe I'm dumb, but what's Oppressor?
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InEffect: Well, I kinda thought you didn't like dying all the time. And stacking some armor was the no-brainer way to do it. With buff it'll be around 60-65 AC with top gear which is more than enough for challenging. Rogue/slayer would be inevitably made of paper and it'd be a needless suffer. Also It's more fun this way.
PS. Choose red and/or gold color scheme. Looks awesome with oppressor.
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RedCope: Sounds good. Thanks again for the input!

It's kinda wild how much opinions vary on what actually works in this game. Ask Reddit and they'll tell you Knife Master is the hands-down best melee DPS in the game, though they won't really tell you why.
Best actual DPS is trip vivisectionist. Knife master adds about 10 average damage per sneak dice rolled. It's not that impressive, once you think about it. And you can't even ramp that damage with crits.
As to what works and what doesn't depends mostly on difficulty. On challenging and below you can do something that vaguely makes sense and it will be fine. Hard is bit more demanding. Unfair... is about what on the tin. Granted only "difficulty" in it is relying on a bit of RNG early-game as you won't have any secure tools.

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RedCope: Also, maybe I'm dumb, but what's Oppressor?
Unique mithral plate. It's a masterpiece from armorer. Although there is also heart of valor and +4mithral plate from varnhold DLC to get by till then
Post edited June 13, 2019 by InEffect
Cheers, as mentioned in the other thread. A crit focused dex/int Tiefling Sword Saint for a story playthrough. I'd assume he'd be pretty sturdy due to high dex AC and the int bonus and good for early game. I'm not too sure which weapon I'll go for though. Falchata, Rapier or Estoc seem to be popular. Would love a recommendation there.
Alternatively, if you have a sturdy Str Saint I'd love to check that out as well, as long as it comes with similar high int for some skill raising.

Thanks!