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Green_Hilltop: Yeah, I'm prepared that we won't probably finish it on the first run - did you mean though that we'd start a new run everytime we all die with the same characters or that we'd be able to have someone respawn or enter the ToH once again with the same character when they die? If you meant the former, that's what I was thinking of when I was suggesting re-runs earlier, since the possibility of having to generate a new character once you die didn't cross my mind, I viewed it just like a normal video game restart with pre-made characters.

And I've always wanted to try out the 1st edition rules, so I'd love to do it with the old ruleset, it'd even make the new character generation easier I guess. :)
Either way works for me with regards to respawning. I saw one guy who did the latter, where each player had a number of lives that got depleted each time they died and reincarnated on the spot, and it seemed to keep the game moving nicely, but whatever works for the party is good.

Fair warning, I don't have access to the 1st edition of AD&D, but from what I can gather the differences between it and AD&D 2E are pretty much nonexistent. Either way, the shift from later editions to AD&D can be a little jarring what with THAC0 and the old Save system to name a few.
Post edited July 21, 2014 by Jonesy89
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Green_Hilltop: Yeah, I'm prepared that we won't probably finish it on the first run - did you mean though that we'd start a new run everytime we all die with the same characters or that we'd be able to have someone respawn or enter the ToH once again with the same character when they die? If you meant the former, that's what I was thinking of when I was suggesting re-runs earlier, since the possibility of having to generate a new character once you die didn't cross my mind, I viewed it just like a normal video game restart with pre-made characters.

And I've always wanted to try out the 1st edition rules, so I'd love to do it with the old ruleset, it'd even make the new character generation easier I guess. :)
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Jonesy89: Either way works for me with regards to respawning. I saw one guy who did the latter, where each player had a number of lives that got depleted each time they died and reincarnated on the spot, and it seemed to keep the game moving nicely, but whatever works for the party is good.

Fair warning, I don't have access to the 1st edition of AD&D, but from what I can gather the differences between it and AD&D 2E are pretty much nonexistent. Either way, the shift from later editions to AD&D can be a little jarring what with THAC0 and the old Save system to name a few.
First edition is still available in the form of OSRIC. It's available as a free download here.
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Jonesy89: Either way works for me with regards to respawning. I saw one guy who did the latter, where each player had a number of lives that got depleted each time they died and reincarnated on the spot, and it seemed to keep the game moving nicely, but whatever works for the party is good.

Fair warning, I don't have access to the 1st edition of AD&D, but from what I can gather the differences between it and AD&D 2E are pretty much nonexistent. Either way, the shift from later editions to AD&D can be a little jarring what with THAC0 and the old Save system to name a few.
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urknighterrant: First edition is still available in the form of OSRIC. It's available as a free download here.
Just bookmarked it. Thanks for the link.
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Jonesy89: Either way works for me with regards to respawning. I saw one guy who did the latter, where each player had a number of lives that got depleted each time they died and reincarnated on the spot, and it seemed to keep the game moving nicely, but whatever works for the party is good.

Fair warning, I don't have access to the 1st edition of AD&D, but from what I can gather the differences between it and AD&D 2E are pretty much nonexistent. Either way, the shift from later editions to AD&D can be a little jarring what with THAC0 and the old Save system to name a few.
Don't worry, I've got countless hours sunk into Baldur's Gate 1, so I'm pretty familiar with THACO and their slightly adapted 2e rules (at least I've heard that they changed some things a bit), it was actually my first edition of DnD so I had to get used to the 3.5 rules later when I was playing ToEE and then read the PnP version for fun.

And the restart would be great with me! :)

-edit: I can provide the 1e rules if needed in case OSRIC modified some things.
Post edited July 23, 2014 by Green_Hilltop
The only change OSRIC made was dropping the "to hit vs. armor class" bonus/penalty for individual weapons, a stat nobody used outside of tournament play anyway.
Post edited 4 days ago by urknighterrant
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urknighterrant: The only change OSRIC made was dropping the "to hit vs. armor class" bonus/penalty for individual weapons, a stat nobody used outside of tournament play anyway.
Ah right, thanks! Wasn't this incorporated in 2e, at least in BG? Where each armor type had listed a penalty or bonus vs slashing/bludgeoning/piercing?
No. It was included in the original 1st edition AD&D PH.

For example, if you were attacking a man in plate mail your weapon would have a modifier vs AC 3. It would be like a -4 for a dagger or a -1 for a long sword. A morning star, mace, or flail, on the other hand might have a +1 (I'm not looking up the actual stats here but you get the idea). The individual bonuses and penalties for each weapon were on the weapons tables.

There were a lot of problems with this system. The same modifier would apply whether you were attacking a man in banded or a man with full chain and shield (ac 4), two VERY different armor types. The results, therefore, tended to come across as rather arbitrary. Also, things like magic bonuses and dex bonuses could create confusion when facing bosses and tier 1 encounters.

And then there were the butthurt howls of prestidigitaters trying to penetrate heavy armor with staves and daggers.

They were a good, albeit flawed, mechanic in theory and I'll wager they were applied in Baldur's Gate. But in a tabletop setting they just weren't worth the headache. They slowed down the game, created rancor at the table (when the DM would declare that an ankylosaurus has an AC equivalent of 3 there was plenty of butthurt to go around), and didn't really add anything to it. Eventually pretty much everyone just ignored them.

By the time the DMG came out the only treatise it got was a short, almost apologetic descriptive paragraph detailing when the bonuses should and should not be used. Later, when full plate became a "thing" and alternate armors like brigandine and breastplates became available the system was just allowed to die quietly. No attempt was made to expand it and include the new armor types. Likewise, as new weapons were introduced they tended to be presented without To Hit vs Armor Class Modifiers.

I'm no expert on 2nd edition but I'm pretty sure they dropped it completely. I don't recall seeing any TH vs AC modifiers in the Arms and Equipment guide.
Post edited 4 days ago by urknighterrant
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urknighterrant: No. It was included in the original 1st edition AD&D PH.

For example, if you were attacking a man in plate mail your weapon would have a modifier vs AC 3. It would be like a -4 for a dagger or a -1 for a long sword. A morning star, mace, or flail, on the other hand might have a +1 (I'm not looking up the actual stats here but you get the idea). The individual bonuses and penalties for each weapon were on the weapons tables.

There were a lot of problems with this system. The same modifier would apply whether you were attacking a man in banded or a man with full chain and shield (ac 4), two VERY different armor types. The results, therefore, tended to come across as rather arbitrary. Also, things like magic bonuses and dex bonuses could create confusion when facing bosses and tier 1 encounters.

And then there were the butthurt howls of prestidigitaters trying to penetrate heavy armor with staves and daggers.

They were a good, albeit flawed, mechanic in theory and I'll wager they were applied in Baldur's Gate. But in a tabletop setting they just weren't worth the headache. They slowed down the game, created rancor at the table (when the DM would declare that an ankylosaurus has an AC equivalent of 3 there was plenty of butthurt to go around), and didn't really add anything to it. Eventually pretty much everyone just ignored them.

By the time the DMG came out the only treatise it got was a short, almost apologetic descriptive paragraph detailing when the bonuses should and should not be used. Later, when full plate became a "thing" and alternate armors like brigandine and breastplates became available the system was just allowed to die quietly. No attempt was made to expand it and include the new armor types. Likewise, as new weapons were introduced they tended to be presented without To Hit vs Armor Class Modifiers.

I'm no expert on 2nd edition but I'm pretty sure they dropped it completely. I don't recall seeing any TH vs AC modifiers in the Arms and Equipment guide.
Ah, I'd almost forgotten about that chart. I'd heard about it while reading up on 2E, and I would have quickly dropped it were it an option. I appreciate the intent behind it, but it's yet another number to keep track of that slows combat down and yet another variable for dedicated twinks to try to screw the system in the ear. Funny thing is that supposedly, 2E's abandonment of the concept is why 2E has so many weapons listed in the core books that have stats that are markedly inferior to some of the more popular ones with regards to speed factor and damage output.

Oh, before I forget, I'm starting a new thread in the general forum regarding the Tomb run. I'll link to it as soon as it is written.

EDIT: done and done.
Post edited 3 days ago by Jonesy89
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urknighterrant: No. It was included in the original 1st edition AD&D PH.

For example, if you were attacking a man in plate mail your weapon would have a modifier vs AC 3. It would be like a -4 for a dagger or a -1 for a long sword. A morning star, mace, or flail, on the other hand might have a +1 (I'm not looking up the actual stats here but you get the idea). The individual bonuses and penalties for each weapon were on the weapons tables.

There were a lot of problems with this system. The same modifier would apply whether you were attacking a man in banded or a man with full chain and shield (ac 4), two VERY different armor types. The results, therefore, tended to come across as rather arbitrary. Also, things like magic bonuses and dex bonuses could create confusion when facing bosses and tier 1 encounters.

And then there were the butthurt howls of prestidigitaters trying to penetrate heavy armor with staves and daggers.

They were a good, albeit flawed, mechanic in theory and I'll wager they were applied in Baldur's Gate. But in a tabletop setting they just weren't worth the headache. They slowed down the game, created rancor at the table (when the DM would declare that an ankylosaurus has an AC equivalent of 3 there was plenty of butthurt to go around), and didn't really add anything to it. Eventually pretty much everyone just ignored them.

By the time the DMG came out the only treatise it got was a short, almost apologetic descriptive paragraph detailing when the bonuses should and should not be used. Later, when full plate became a "thing" and alternate armors like brigandine and breastplates became available the system was just allowed to die quietly. No attempt was made to expand it and include the new armor types. Likewise, as new weapons were introduced they tended to be presented without To Hit vs Armor Class Modifiers.

I'm no expert on 2nd edition but I'm pretty sure they dropped it completely. I don't recall seeing any TH vs AC modifiers in the Arms and Equipment guide.
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Jonesy89: Ah, I'd almost forgotten about that chart. I'd heard about it while reading up on 2E, and I would have quickly dropped it were it an option. I appreciate the intent behind it, but it's yet another number to keep track of that slows combat down and yet another variable for dedicated twinks to try to screw the system in the ear. Funny thing is that supposedly, 2E's abandonment of the concept is why 2E has so many weapons listed in the core books that have stats that are markedly inferior to some of the more popular ones with regards to speed factor and damage output.

Oh, before I forget, I'm starting a new thread in the general forum regarding the Tomb run. I'll link to it as soon as it is written.

EDIT: done and done.
If you're looking for players don't forget to post in some of the 1st edition sites like dragonsfoot and grognard.

Wish I could join you but I have a 2 year old. Scheduled events never work out. Oh... and I've read the module... ;)