So I played through the OC of Neverwinter Nights without a problem. I liked it! Not perfect, but enjoyable for sure. However, I started a game of SoU and just couldn't get anywhere with it, and I'm pretty sure it was because of my class.

In the OC, I was a bog standard paladin, which was fun, but I wanted to try something different in the expansions. I liked the idea of an arcane archer (and I've had a ton of fun playing one in "real" D&D) so I worked towards that, but it was horrendously difficult. I made it to the dungeon where you follow the lights around and absolutely could not make it though. I even cheated up my level a bit, but it simply wasn't happening.

I want to try again (mostly so I can move on and play some of the custom modules, but also because I've heard great things about HotU) but I don't know what class I should try this time. Ideally I would want something that isn't a heavy armour melee fighter, and would prefer some kind of prestige class involved since HotU ends at such a high level. But is that just being too hopeful?

Anyway, would love to hear from others about what classes they used in SoU/HotU to get an idea of what I should try next.

If you take the path of the Arcane Archer, just accept that you are not a very good spellcaster. You're an archer who happens to be able to cast a couple of spells. I personally don't like this class, but it is totally playable. Since your stats need to be focused on archery, you probably want to start your career as a fighter, ranger, or barbarian and then multi-class into bard, wizard or sorcerer later to qualify. Remember not to put more than four levels into bard, and no more than two levels into wizard or sorcerer, otherwise it starts cutting into your archery skills.

My favorite class for SoU/HotU is the Sorcerer. If you're going to multi-class, putting a single level into Barbarian is a decent choice (proficiency with all martial weapons, fills out your hit point total nicely, and grants faster move speed - nice), but don't divert more than one level away from Sorcerer. Focus on picking a versatile selection of spells; some damage spells, some disabling spells, some protective spells, and a couple of summoning and utility spells. Sorcerers are a load of fun if you get your spell selection right.

What did you find so difficult about the Arcane Archer?
I took a fighter 8/wizard 2/AA x build through SoU then HotU and it was fine. It's nowhere near as powerful as an arcane or divine caster, or even as a well-built melee fighter using one of those horrendously overpowered crafted weapons, but it was good enough to finish both expansions. Archery IS underpowered in NWN though.

If you can't handle the archer, I'd suggest playing a bard. They're decent in melee, and the song and curse song are really good. Plus they're not as reliant on short-term buffs as clerics, and they can still take advantage of those OP crafted weapons.
Just remember that while they may be a kind of fighter/rogue/caster hybrid, they have very few damage spells, so bards rely on melee weapons for damage. Therefore it's better to emphasize the fighter part than the caster one.

Rogue-fighter-Shadowdancer is quite awesome.
Light armor, sneak-stab-disengage-hide. Early levels are easier if starting as a fighter.

My first playthrough of HotU was with a Monk, worked out just great. Again, harder on early levels.

That's the Dragon Disciple. He's a little weird; you need a level or Bard or Sorcerer to qualify, but this class is absolutely terrible for bards and sorcerers.

The way to use Dragon Disciple effectively is to begin as a Fighter or Barbarian, take one level of Bard or Sorcerer to qualify, then completely ignore the fact that you have a spellcasting class. The result is a character with a positively mind-blowing strength score. Personally I prefer the weapon master for melee specialists. Sure, he doesn't get dragon wings, but he's extremely effective at shredding enemies. He increases your chances of inflicting a critical hit, and he increases the damage you deal on a successful critical hit, which is a nice way of saying that if it's not immune to critical hits it's going to die very quickly,

The problem with an AA in SoU is you're going to spend more than half the game as something other than an Arcane Archer, since the earliest you can possibly take a level in the class is level 8 and SoU ends out at around level 13 or so. And, as noted by mystral, NWN isn't all that kind to archer builds either.

I took a Sorcerer through SoU and found it quite fun. I also ran a melee-oriented Bard through it and found that quite fun as well.

TinyE's advice seemed to be the most earnest, so I went with it. And it's working!

The problem I had with my archer is a) henchmen are the worst when it comes to ai, often leaving me without a meatshield and less XP to boot and b) every battle was shoot, shoot, get face eaten by a wayward crit, reload until sheer luck or a generous use of potions got me through. Of course I wasn't using fighter as a base, so that was probably my main issue. But my new bard is handling things much better by going up close and personal. I know switching to barbarian would help, but eh. This seems to be working just fine.

You're welcome. :D

"It has wings" is a pretty good selling point, I must admit ^_^ It'd be a good idea to take one level of barbarian or fighter before going RDD (if you've already got 5 levels of bard then don't bother; just continue with RDD). Your attack bonus will be better for it, which will improve your combat abilities substantially. Once you start down the path of the Red Dragon Disciple your bard abilities will completely stop improving, so you absolutely need to focus on your melee attack abilities.

Remember that since your strength is going to be your primary attribute you want to be using a two-handed weapon if at all possible. The greatsword is generally the best choice amongst two-handed weapons, but there are some good scythes in HotU if you have the patience to wait for them. One of the advantages with multi-classing barbarian or fighter is that you'll get martial weapon proficiency for free, as well as more armor proficiency.

For spell selection, try to pick spells that have some good buffing effects. Your caster level is going to be very low, which means that spells that deal damage or rely on very short duration effects aren't going to remain relevant. Something like bull's strength has a decent duration and will remain useful well into the future.

Yeah, I'm already on Bard 5 so I think I'm stuck with it. But I'm not too worried, there's only ten levels of RDD so I can bard or something else after that, and I went with an elf (somewhat arbitrarily, not the greatest min/max move I've realized but I was keeping human off limits as I played on in the OC) so any barbarian levels would hit me with an XP penalty.

Similarly, bard only has left me a little iffy on weapon choice, but elf proficiency fixes that a tiny bit. I figure I'll stick with a rapier for crits, and try to find a really awesome enchanted shield to make me more hit-proof, even if damage is lower. If I grab a keen rapier (apparently you can craft one in HotU, according to a friend) and grab imp. crit, I should be golden. Probably not the most powerful character ever to grace NWN, but good enough for the campaign (I hope!) and I can always try to tolerate the henchies if things get harder.

As for spells, I'm way ahead of you. :) I'm all about that bull strength, and I've been pumping strength whenever possible. Mage armour has been handy for survivability too, but I might swap it out next level as magic items are rendering it obsolete. I figure non-buffs aren't worth it with the spell failure chance armour/shield brings, and extra stats are good at any level. At this point it's incredibly difficult for anything to hit me, and I hit hard enough and often enough to thin most herds before it becomes a problem. Heading to the high forest right now (where I quit before) so we shall see if I do better this time.

Thanks for the help, from you and everyone else in the thread. Really enjoying this now, and have good ideas for some characters to use in other modules.

Yeah, not much you can do about it with the elf race. Five levels of bard it is. I'd probably have suggested dwarf or half-orc. Those may seem weird choices for bards, but as Dragon Disciples they actually don't need very much charisma so they end up rocking out since their strong stats stack with the Dragon Disciple bonuses. They also get favored class as fighter and barbarian respectively. Picking a weapon with a good critical hit chance is always a nice approach. However, as a Red Dragon Disciple you'll benefit a lot from using a two-handed weapon. It may be worth consideration to invest a feat for weapon proficiency.

Remember that bonus damage from strength gets multiplied by 1.5 if you are using a two-handed weapon. For large strength scores (epic Dragon Disciples can hit the 40+ range in NWN1) that's quite a lot of extra damage, and well worth getting rid of a shield for it.


Probably your best option in the long-run is to aim for Weapon Master or Champion of Torm once you've got your 10 dragon disciple levels. It might be hard for you to qualify for Weaopn Master since you cannot take levels in fighter, but Champion of Torm should be easy to grab.

Hmm, good point. I might swap a feat or two around in a character editor to make this happen.

In that case I'd recommend a heavy flail, because
- it's just the kind of weapon a a hugely strong character would use
- nicely ignores the damage reduction of all skeletal thingies

1 point less damage on average compared to greatsword or greataxe, which is peanuts.

Hmmm. I've hit a brick wall with a mummy. Part of the problem is its immunity to normal weapons, and that I've been pretty screwed with +1 weapons as I've only found a +1 crossbow so far. Literally can only damage it when bardsong is active, and even then only a point or two at a time, and I run out of bardsongs long before it dies.

Do any merchants sell +1 items in the first chapter? Otherwise I either need to do something really silly (scrolls+cure spells maybe?), cheat (not ideal), or try again with a slightly more optimized character. I'm not quite far enough for that to sting too much, I suppose.