After finally solving my resolution issues on NWN i decided to start a character to play the campaigns on NWN. I will not be playing the OC, but the 2 additional campaigns available (Shadows over Undertide and the other one) and i want to make a very mixed multiclass character but do not know if i will hit the multiclass XP penalty issue:

My character will be an Elf that i will start as Wizard, adding bard so i an qualify to Red Dragon Disciple and eventually Archane Archer prestige classes.

I will most be relying on Longbows, but with some melee potential (using longsword+shiel) and critter support.

I will start as a Wizard (elf favored class) so i can havea familiar at the start (will be taking the Panther for melee potential), probably focusing the wizard in the Conjuration school for additional summoning. I will try to advance using these levels:

1st - Wizard (4 Lore)
2nd - Bard (5 Lore) (to be able to qualify for RDD)
3rd - Wizard (6 Lore)
4th - Wizard (7 Lore)
5th - Wizard (8 Lore)
6th - Red Dragon Disciple

Then i will advance on the Red Dragon Disciple until i have the requisites for the Arcane Archer, switching to the AA levels until i reach all 10 levels, returning to RDD after, aiming to finish it too.

My doubts:
With this build i will at anytime hit the XP multiclass penalty? Is it worth it to get all levels of AA or i should only get some (how many) and focus myself more on the RDD levels? Should i advance Bard levels higher than the minimum to get RDD just so i get a better bardic song (how useful is it)? What would be good ability scores for me to start? Is it worth to get some levels of Ranger too (maybe to level 6 so i get an additional animal companion)?

Thanks

You wouldn't be hit by xp penalty since Wizard is an elf's favoured class and prestige classes don't count.
However, you can only have up to 3 classes on your character in NWN, unlike the sequel, so you can't do this build.

Also, a word of caution on archery, it's really weak in NWN. Arcane Archer makes it usuable (I did complete SoU and HotU using an AA), but you'll never be as powerful as a well-built melee, let alone a divine or arcane spellcaster.

If you want to have both RDD and Arcane Archer, then forget about Wizard and go Bard all the way. Bardic songs are very useful, but only at higher levels. You don't need more than 10 levels in RDD, and if you will primarily be an archer, AA is pretty much mandatory.
So your build would be Bard 5/RDD 10/AA all other levels.

A ranger's animal companion is never useful, since it starts 6 levels lower than you. Even druid companions aren't that great either, the panther familiar for wizards and sorcs is much better.

As for stats, dex is obviously your main one as an archer, composite bows can use some strength bonus, but you'll get all you'll need from RDD levels.
Str 10/ Dex 18/ Con 12/Wis 10/ Int 14/ Cha 12 should work fine. You could lower non-combat stats to get 20 dex, but +1 to hit doesn't really make that much difference, and having a good persuade skill can be more useful.


Still, you can play the character you want. The game is pretty easy and you definitely don't need a min-maxed character to play through it. Just be aware of some of the limitations, like having 3 classes max.

In NWN1, the game applies huge XP penalties for having henchmen...
Unfortunately it applies those also for summoning a familiar, an animal companion, or any creature from the summon monster / natures ally / planer binding spells.

By using any of the above you will end up with a character 2/3 the level that you would without said XP penalty.

RDD is cute in terms of fluff but is horrible mechanically, it requires you to be a magic user, does not advance casting, gives bonuses all over the place (+2 int, +2cha, +4 str, +2 con) with neither a focus on melee or arcane. And has a weak BAB progression. yuck!

As mystral said, only 3 classes are allowed total.

PRC stands for PoweR Classes not Prestige classes (joking :P)... you should use 2 power classes and 1 base class rather then 2 or 3 base classes. (with some exception like the utterly terrible horrible crappy RDD class)

Bard, sorcerer, and wizard simply do not mix... They are the worst possible combinations of classes because they all give you same-y spells but by multi classing you are limiting yourself to fewer (spell slots), weaker (caster level), and lower level spells. since caster levels do not stack.

Arcane archer's difficult requirement is the +6 BAB, the arcane casting requires just 1 level dip.
So you could meet those requirements by level:
Level 7: fighter/barbarian/etc 6 + 1 level of arcane caster of choice (or fighter 5, wizard/sorc 2... or bard 3/fighter 4 or bard 4/fighter 3)... the point is to minimize it to 1 level dip though since low level spells become obsolete, especially for a non caster.
Level 8: bard 8 (or some inefficient mix of caster and melee classes)
Level 12: wizard/sorc

Note that when arcane archer reaches level 10 it can no longer be leveled up until you reach level 21. This means you would be back to your base classes.
At that point you are best off with fighter since an arcane archer is a bowman that self enchants his weapons (so your stats should reflect it, don't build it as a wizard)

RDD actually gives +8 strength, not 4, immunity to fire and paralysis, +4 AC, the blind fight feat and some pretty useless firebreath powers. It has medium BAB progression, not weak.
For a melee class it's a powerful prestige class. Bard/Fighter/RDD (or Bard/RDD/Champion of Torm) gives you a really powerful melee character imo.

Not that you really need it, anyway. As long as you don't do stupid stuff like doing a Wizard/Sorcerer/Cleric multiclass, you should be able to complete the expansions pretty easily, they're really not that hard.
Just pick a concept that sounds interesting to you, within the game's limitations, and you'll have fun.

Thanks for the answers, news to me about the xp penalties from companions/summons or the 3 classes max, so i will drop the wizard levels and use a Bard/RDD/AA build

I know that RDD is somewhat weak on BAB and its bonuses are somewhat all over the place, but my main reason to want it is from a roleplay perspective (wings are cool) - and the strenght bonuses help with the longbow damage while allowing some melee potential (the AC bonuses are nice too).

My main tactic will be to use th longbow, with a longsword+shield in cramped quarters, with a melee and/or thief as henchmen support.

Will use mystral suggestions for the stats... thanks again.

You shouldn't use a longsword. If you have much higher Dex than Strength (as you should as an archer) you'll want to use Weapon Finesse for a better bonus to hit in melee, and that doesn't apply to longswords. Pick up a rapier or shortsword instead.

You'll be a bit strapped for feats as a Bard/RDD/AA, but you should still be okay.

http://nwn.wikia.com/wiki/Red_dragon_disciple My mistake, you are correct Not worth mentioning. Fair point, but you aren't hurting for AC... natural armor is actually pretty in terms of stack-ability. Weak as in "not full" not as in 1/2. Yes it gives 3/4th BAB but that is weak for a fighter type. Real fighter classes give you full BAB.
And you get more feats with other classes Bard isn't a melee char either.

So, using RDD you trade in 3 BAB and various feats for +4 damage and to hit and +4 AC.
It seems like a good deal at first glance until you realize that the BAB loss means fewer attacks per round. My first gameplay of NWN1 I did not understand the dnd rules and how XP worked and the like. I played wizard 1/ sorc 1/bard 1. :)
I was deciminated... I learned since. Weapon finesse is just bad. you are wasting feat to be an inferior combatant to someone who has STR. And you will never be as good as someone with str no matter how many feats you sink on it.
Just get a high str char instead of a high dex one Ah, if you really want to you can. It is a real shame NWN doesn't implement flight... in PnP flight is HUGE and RDD gives you a natural always on mode of flight (even in anti magic field).
Wings are the big payoff of dragon disciple and in NWN they are purely cosmetic... Also annoying they force you to be RED DD... the class is supposed to let you choose dragon color and it would have been simple to implement.

I would caution against doing both melee and bows. Stick with one OR the other and specialize the heck out of it.
Even if choosing bows, if an enemy engages your bowman in melee you can still shoot him and will do better if you specialized in bows rather then swapping to melee when its half and half.

Just as a kind of aside: One of my favorite builds is Bard 16/FTR 4 by level 20. I play it as a STR-based melee character. So, while Bards aren't a full BAB class they can certainly be melee characters if you build them for it. It's only fewer attacks per round if you give up more than 4 BAB. 16 to 20 BAB at level 20 is still a full attack routine (4 attacks per round). Granted, the progression is slowed somewhat, so you end up getting your extra attacks later than a full BAB class. But sometimes the tradeoffs are worth it. I won't comment on whether or not RDD is worth it, as that's totally up to personal preference.

I agree that high strength is better than high dex, but if you want to play an archer, or to get all the dual-wield feats, you'll need high dex. Nothing wrong with taking advantage of your high dex with weapon finesse then.

Plus, at later levels when you have overpowered weapons, your strength damage bonus doesn't matter all that much, but you still need decent to hit. And a well-enchanted rapier in HotU with weapon finesse will do more damage than a bow any day. True in theory, but the songs are still very good utility that synergize well with melee and probably provide more of a power boost than any of the powers given to a pure melee class. Besides, considering they don't get any offensive spells, bards pretty much have to melee to do damage, unless you go AA with them. So yes, bard is a hybrid melee class imo.
And the BAB isn't such a big deal, you need 16 BAB by level 20 to get the full 4 attacks per round, so you only need to make sure to take enough fighter levels to get that 16 BAB.

Frankly, pure melee classes aren't that great imo. Rangers suck in NWN, Fighter give feats and nothing else, so while it's good for a multiclass, there are almost no benefits to taking fighter past level 8, Barbarian is decent but don't give much that won't get overshadowed by equipment later on, Paladin is interesting but relies far too much on short buffs.
Blackguard might be nice except the requirements are ridiculous, and you typically don't fight good enemies.
Weaponmaster can be great, but unfortunately is completely useless anytime you fight enemies immune to critical hits.
Champion of Torm is good, but nothing really special.

RDD does not have songs.
Bards do, bards are good, RDD aren't

Of course RDD has no songs. This was an answer to your "bard isn't a melee class either". My point is that you can do a very strong melee character with a strength-based bard with some fighter levels and powerful songs.

And RDD is only 10 levels, while you only need 16 levels of bard to get the most out of it, since songs don't get much stronger after that. Bard 16/Fighter 4/RDD 10 is a perfectly viable build for HotU, and it's quite strong imo.

In order to use weapon finesse:
1. Weapon must be small
2. Dex must be higher then str.

You are perfectly able to unlock necessary feats with dex13 while focusing primarily on str.
Besides which 2 weapon wielding is not all that good. Just go with 1 big weapon.

Focusing on strength you get +10 mod (str 30) by level 16 without any spells. That is +15 damage and +10 to hit.
While you can find a weapon with more bonus damage than that, you are still giving up damage for no reason, having dex for the sole purpose of having dex.

As far as using dex for archery... what does that have to do with melee builds? I never contested that dex is useful for archers (although it only give them to hit mod and not damage bonus which is bad. They get a LIMITED damage bonus via composite bows which allow application of small amount of str towards ranged damage and the bow has to be correctly sized for them else they get a penalty)

Look, the OP wants to do an archer, which means high dex. At some point, however, he's likely to realize that bows suck in HotU since you can't enchant them nearly as much as a melee weapon IIRC.
That would be the point when switching to an enchanted melee weapon for hard fights would be a good idea, but since as an archer he'll have much higher dex than strength, taking weapon finesse and using a rapier would be a good idea, otherwise he'll miss a lot.
That's all I'm saying.

As for the dual-wield debate, dual-wielding with dex is worth it imo if the static bonuses to damage you get (sneak attack or weapon enchantments basically) make having extra attacks stronger than getting a higher damage bonus on 5 attacks.
It's almost always worth it for a rogue, and it's worth it late in HotU when your strength bonus is dwarved by the weapon enchantments you can get. Otherwise, dual-wielding is pretty bad, I agree.

If the OP wants to do an archer he can, but that is irrelevant to our argument on whether dex is inferior for a melee or not.

Also, what the OP wants to do is have a character with wings. And to a lesser extent make a caster/archer/melee character that switches between the 3 "as needed".

If he WANTS to he can, I am not telling him not to play it... I am just explaining to him it will be terribly weak compared to a focused build.

@Sneak attack: Too many powerful things are flat out immune to sneak attack

Very interesting discussion on Str x Dex and i agree that a Str based char will always be more powerful than a Dex based on on melee but i particularly find Melee chars boring to play.

I created my Elf Bard (future RDD and AA) and i am playing it on SoU now with a level 5 Bard using longbows and finding it fun... i noticed that switching to melee weapons is not worth it during the battle, so i a mostly using the longbow only. My main intention is to have an Archer character with RDD for roleplay reasons, casting is unecessary but since it comes with the bard package i will use it, and i will get AA because without it i cannot become a archer good enough for later parts of HOTU.

I read somewhere on forgotten post in an old board that there is a way to mod flight on NWN, any idea if someone managed to create a mod for it? It would be an interesting mod to apply to the RDD class when you get the wings..