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Here me out: Half of the classes don't seem to have any real purpose other than to lead you away from better classes (Druid vs. Cleric, Archer vs. Sorcerer, Knight vs. Paladin, etc.).

If you don't powergame and look up the math (most of it only available this century thanks to Grayface— if this was 1998, you'd be spinning your wheels with wasted slots), then gearing is very misleading. At first stats are great, but then the diminishing returns make them mostly worthless if you get light/dark magic and your only mid-game power increasers are +HP and SP, but you reach a point that a few extra HP or SP don't really matter and all you want is +AC, "Of Power" and "Of Recovery".

Your non-tank classes end up being your tanks. In my current party, my Knight only ever receives AoE damage. Instead, because of target preferences of end-game mobs, my Cleric is basically only wearing +AC, +Resistance and +Endurance gear because mobs only ever attack them and they spend 90% of their time healing themselves. In terms of combat flow, that frees up the other three to attack non-stop. That just feels boring and wrong.

Then you have your relic and artifact limits which leave you loading and running across maps to chests over and over and over to complete your wishlist before you reach your limit.

With reputation requirements for light/dark magic, if you don't plan your quests ahead you can easily deny yourself one or the other (although many say they don't bother getting them, anyway).

And finally, Castle Darkmoor. The mini-map is spaghetti, you can't use Wizard Eye or Torchlight and there are rooms full of zomgwtfbbq mobs that zerg you. Oh, and no buffs. Of course there are other annoying dungeons such as Castle Alamos with all the mobs shooting you through holes in the walls and the Hall of the Firelord which requires a sideview of the cinder cone to efficiently understand the elevation drops. I did it all by trial and error, but then I found a map online that would have made it a five minute dungeon.

Finally, you can only play as humans and the only non-human mortal you can speak with is a single dwarf?

Don't get me wrong: MM7 and forward have their issues, too. But at least the archer is actually the best archer. Mobs will target your knights and paladins and there is no equivalent to the spaghetti-like halls of Castle Darkmoor. But I've found that you can bumble your way through the later games and be fine, while MM6 requires you to powergame and plan ahead in a way that utterly annihilates the fourth wall and any sense of roleplaying mystique.

Alright, you caught me. Those other things annoy me: MM7-9 having their own unique annoyances, too. By today's RPG standards, there's a lot to question and scratch your head over. But things were different in 1996-7. I'm mostly just mad at Castle Darkmoor. WHY DOES CASTLE DARKMOOR EXIST!?! It's a joke on gamers, right? Right? Or did someone think that was a good idea?
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snkboarder: Here me out: Half of the classes don't seem to have any real purpose other than to lead you away from better classes (Druid vs. Cleric, Archer vs. Sorcerer, Knight vs. Paladin, etc.).

If you don't powergame and look up the math (most of it only available this century thanks to Grayface— if this was 1998, you'd be spinning your wheels with wasted slots), then gearing is very misleading. At first stats are great, but then the diminishing returns make them mostly worthless if you get light/dark magic and your only mid-game power increasers are +HP and SP, but you reach a point that a few extra HP or SP don't really matter and all you want is +AC, "Of Power" and "Of Recovery".

Your non-tank classes end up being your tanks. In my current party, my Knight only ever receives AoE damage. Instead, because of target preferences of end-game mobs, my Cleric is basically only wearing +AC, +Resistance and +Endurance gear because mobs only ever attack them and they spend 90% of their time healing themselves. In terms of combat flow, that frees up the other three to attack non-stop. That just feels boring and wrong.

Then you have your relic and artifact limits which leave you loading and running across maps to chests over and over and over to complete your wishlist before you reach your limit.

With reputation requirements for light/dark magic, if you don't plan your quests ahead you can easily deny yourself one or the other (although many say they don't bother getting them, anyway).

And finally, Castle Darkmoor. The mini-map is spaghetti, you can't use Wizard Eye or Torchlight and there are rooms full of zomgwtfbbq mobs that zerg you. Oh, and no buffs. Of course there are other annoying dungeons such as Castle Alamos with all the mobs shooting you through holes in the walls and the Hall of the Firelord which requires a sideview of the cinder cone to efficiently understand the elevation drops. I did it all by trial and error, but then I found a map online that would have made it a five minute dungeon.

Finally, you can only play as humans and the only non-human mortal you can speak with is a single dwarf?

Don't get me wrong: MM7 and forward have their issues, too. But at least the archer is actually the best archer. Mobs will target your knights and paladins and there is no equivalent to the spaghetti-like halls of Castle Darkmoor. But I've found that you can bumble your way through the later games and be fine, while MM6 requires you to powergame and plan ahead in a way that utterly annihilates the fourth wall and any sense of roleplaying mystique.

Alright, you caught me. Those other things annoy me: MM7-9 having their own unique annoyances, too. By today's RPG standards, there's a lot to question and scratch your head over. But things were different in 1996-7. I'm mostly just mad at Castle Darkmoor. WHY DOES CASTLE DARKMOOR EXIST!?! It's a joke on gamers, right? Right? Or did someone think that was a good idea?
I loved your post! Castle Darkmoor has held an unique place as one of the most infamous dungeons from any computer game I have played, since I first went through it in the late 90's when the game came out. Might and Magic VI would benefit from a good cluebook, which outlines how to make the most of it but still without going too far to be like cheating. There are tons of things you can do to make the game too easy. If you want to really get into the characters you're playing, and try to play the game through from start to finish seriously, as they would if facing those challenges, there is a lot you should know about how to build, train and equip your characters.

The best party for a full role-playing experience, I have found, to be a Knight, Paladin, Cleric, and Sorcerer. Note this gives only 1 caster of elemental magic, which is on purpose because once you know how to use it very well, more than one of these casters can make the game too easy. Ring of Fire, for example, will even work through walls, so in a dungeon you could clear out rooms of even a large number of monsters by just having two casters keep casting this spell outside the door. The Meteor Shower spell is even more powerful in certain respects, such as when combined with the Fly spell and how you may fight titans. You can keep changing your altitude throughout the combat, which in turn based mode will let you dodge most attacks. And the Meteor Shower spell does so much damage, more than one caster will let you take down titans and other very powerful monsters like you're out there mowing the lawn. That is how you can get super high level, by the way, if you keep coming to areas like Hermit's Isle and clearing all monsters with these spells, you will get far more experience than the total from all the quests and dungeons.


The archer class can be a disappointment also, because they don't have any extra skill with bows. I don't know why the designers didn't give them something, like they do in MM7+8. It really makes a difference because the archer quests are exciting, with the lord they introduce more memorable than most. And all the while, the bow is just everyone's weapon and the archer just gets to cast elemental spells. They don't have enough spell points to be your only elemental caster, so take sorcerer.

The other class I left out is druid, because you only need 1 character for each type of magic and the druid can't get light or dark magic. The druid is often considered overpowered, too, having both self and elemental spells, but there is also the aspect of boring quests that you should consider. The head druid you speak to for council and class quests, Loretta Fleise, is a greedy banker. The connection with money doesn't seem to fit the druid, not at all to me, anyway, as I saw it as a nature class. The class quests just have you pray at shrines at particular times, which can be easily missed and that can be frustrating.

The knight doesn't do any better with weapons than anyone else, melee or missile, and that is a disappointment, but the extra hit points more than compensate for this in my opinion. This makes the knight a solid class, and you should increase the body building skill to very high to make the most of this advantage. It's especially useful if you want to play the game very challenging like I propose, leading your party to take risks of having to retreat before finishing rooms or areas. The knight will usually stay up as you run away and take missile or passing attacks on the way. And the quests are great...though the first one is a one time only gig. Once you know where to get nominated, it will take the challenge out of that completely every later time you play the game.


If you want to try the party I picked, remember to give the paladin spirit magic...and focus on that, especially for bless and heroism. Have the cleric learn body magic, and focus on that first, and then mind magic and both light and dark magic. The sorcerer should master all 4 elemental types of magic, and get most of the horseshoes as needed. And let the self and elemental skills cast the buff spells until you have all the extra skill points you want later in the game. It's much better that way than to just build light or dark magic in my opinion, because it adds to the flavor and the paladin, for instance, will be able to get spirit magic very high since he doesn't need any other magic. Wtth a ring of spirit magic or similar item, and rank of 17, you will add +30 to hit and +30 to damage with these spells. And 25 rank in fire magic will do more than enough damage so you won't miss another spell-caster.
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Larias: The best party for a full role-playing experience, I have found, to be a Knight, Paladin, Cleric, and Sorcerer.

[...]

The archer class can be a disappointment also, because they don't have any extra skill with bows. I don't know why the designers didn't give them something, like they do in MM7+8.
With respect to the archer, they *did* give them a unique ability in MM1 and MM2; the ability to fire in melee range. This makes archers good for the middle slots, where such characters are sometimes engaged in melee and sometimes not, as it allows them to only have to carry one weapon instead of two. Unfortunately for archers, MM3 changed the way things work and you no longer have that distinction; this change also meant that you could no longer protect weaker characters by putting them toward the back of the party. (World of Xeen had a similar issue with tanking to MM6; in one of the hardest (lategame) areas of the game, the dominant enemies will always attack your Cleric if you have one alive and conscious (one of the few times I would consider armor, but only if you can get your AC to something like 250).

Out of curiosity, how is the MM6 default party, if you just start with the default stats and skills? I like the Xeen default party (even though it lacks a barbarian), but MM2's party has some poor choices of gender and stats (no female frontliner, cleric is slow), and MM3's party lacks a druid or ranger (which means no Walk on Water on a game that takes place on a bunch of islands). Is MM6's default party decent and fun to play? (I could also ask this question of the later games in the series as well, though I seem to remember MM8 not having such a default.)
snkboarder, you omitted the game's cheap shots with fountains and wells. Especially Whitecap's. Also Kriegspire village's. Even the poisonous water-troughs at Mist spoil the world-building role-playing experience - why do the townsfolk have them?
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Larias: The best party for a full role-playing experience, I have found, to be a Knight, Paladin, Cleric, and Sorcerer.
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dtgreene: Out of curiosity, how is the MM6 default party, if you just start with the default stats and skills?
Default (Paladin, Archer, Cleric, Sorcerer) is fun too. Male, female, female, male in that order, all human. "Archer" sells the class short (in MM6 specifically, that is; I've yet to play any of the earlier ones) - instead, think "Barbarian" (fitting the lore of Enroth from the HoMM games) - high damage (when trained up), medium protection melee fighter with a head start in bowmanship, and appropriate skill (Perception) and magic (Wizard Eye) for scouting. Admittedly starts with Axe skill which may be right for the image but is wrong for the game play - since forbidden shield, should aim towards Spear (trident, halberd) in one hand and Sword in the other.

+++ IMPORTANT: install Greyface patch to make dual wielding work. +++

Learn Sword first so as to wield the two-handed one from the stone at New Sorpigal. Paladin can be Sword-and-Shield man, with option later for Axe-and-Sword in case a really good axe turns up.

Playing this party, I trained my Archer in Air and Earth, for Shield and Stone Skin buffs respectively. She also helped out with magic, the little she could, against Might-immune monsters (Oozes, Diamond Gargoyles), and later she did the Flying, all so Sorcerer could concentrate on Fire and Water magics. Dark Magic I left to my Cleric (the better to unleash the Gods' wrath on monsters, unbelievers and heretics, if you want to role play).
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Larias: you only need 1 character for each type of magic
What if the only character who can uncurse gets cursed, the only one who can un-paralyze gets paralysed, the only one who can raise from the dead gets insta-killed, or the only one who can un-eradicate gets eradicated? You want two with Mind magic (even if only Expert) and two with Spirit. On the elemental side, having two with Stone-to-Flesh (Earth magic) happens to be less critical, due to the number of scrolls available, but for strict role-playing pretend you don't know that in adavnce.
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Larias: The druid is often considered overpowered, too, having both self and elemental spells, but there is also the aspect of boring quests that you should consider. The head druid you speak to for council and class quests, Loretta Fleise, is a greedy banker. The connection with money doesn't seem to fit the druid, not at all to me, anyway, as I saw it as a nature class. The class quests just have you pray at shrines at particular times, which can be easily missed and that can be frustrating.
Yes, the banker = druid combination is odd; so is the head priest = underworld boss one. The greedy banker's council quest has to be done, whether or not she is head druid and whether or not you have a druid in the party. I do all six pairs of promotion quests for the fun of it, for the experience gains and because honorary knight and paladin promotions are needed for certain skill upgrades.

The first step knight, druid and sorcerer quests are all simple go-there ones with only a few hostiles to get round or through. Yes, you do actually have to keep track of the in-game date and calculate travel times for the druid one. The same is true of the paladin quest, assuming you talk to the prince - and why wouldn't you? - before going to rescue the girl. Not to mention all the pilgrimages for stat boosts. The second step druid quest is really a clear-the-dungeon one because that is where the altar is.
Post edited April 14, 2019 by RSimpkinuk57
If you get a gate master you can do both druid advancements in one full moon cycle. Night of June21/22 and 22/23 say. (So as to avoid missing it I usually go the night before the full moon in case the game is counting differently than I am.) I also clear out the Free Haven hide-out before the Equinox.

Druids are powerful because you can better protect them, have all "Worldly" magic, and blue goo calculated by both intellect and personality.

And Loretta comes across as a Knight Templar type for me. Who did become bankers.

As for the ring of fire, you can use rock blast in a similar manner but not feeling like you are misusing "thin walls."

First time I did Darkmoor, I felt sick afterwards and stopped playing the game for a while. I have a much easier time with it now, but I don't think I will ever enjoy it. And all those empty bottles sitting there because the game designers wanted to work the players over. The CIA could use tormentors like the person who designed that quest.

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Post edited April 14, 2019 by macAilpin
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dtgreene: Out of curiosity, how is the MM6 default party, if you just start with the default stats and skills?
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RSimpkinuk57: Default (Paladin, Archer, Cleric, Sorcerer) is fun too. Male, female, female, male in that order, all human. "Archer" sells the class short (in MM6 specifically, that is; I've yet to play any of the earlier ones) - instead, think "Barbarian" (fitting the lore of Enroth from the HoMM games) - high damage (when trained up), medium protection melee fighter with a head start in bowmanship, and appropriate skill (Perception) and magic (Wizard Eye) for scouting. Admittedly starts with Axe skill which may be right for the image but is wrong for the game play - since forbidden shield, should aim towards Spear (trident, halberd) in one hand and Sword in the other.
I suspect that the gender of each party in MM6 doesn't actually matter gameplay-wise. The reason I mention gender with the MM2 default party is that the game (and, from what I hear, MM1) has a really strange mechanic; certain enemies can be hit physically be female characters but not male characters, and vice versa for other enemies. You can get around that by using offensive spells, but the two characters who can cast Sorcerer spells (Archer and Sorcerer) are both female, so it doesn't help against male-immune enemies; hence why you will want your Knight or Paladin to be female. (Also, you'll want your Cleric to be the same gender as your Paladin because the Personality boost facilities are gender segregatet.) Using hirelings is not a good option, as most of them are male, and one of the three that aren't I am not sure would work here.

There are a couple other unusual gender related things in MM2 as well:
* One of the hirelings in MM2 is non-binary in some versions of the game (their gender is labeled Neuter; for whatever reason, the DOS version just made them female); I do not know how this affects gender related mechanics. Unfortunately, you can't make this choice for your own characters (unlike in Ultima 3).
* There are two fountains that will change your party's gender when you drink from them; if you're using the default party, you could use one of them to fix the imbalance, but you might need to go in with just a few characters so that you still have someone who can hurt the female-immune enemies.

If I'm playing any later game in the series and not using the default party, I would certainly make everyone female; one quest in MM3 gets harder (but still possible, or you could hire someone), and there's no difference (as far as I can tell) in World of Xeen. Is this still the case in the later games in the series?
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macAilpin: blue goo calculated by both intellect and personality.
In MM3 through MM5, this was a downside; you had to raise both stats in order to get their SP high, rather than just one. (In Swords of Xeen, however, it did mean that they would get more SP than Sorcerers, though.) Combine that with the fact that, in the Xeen games, Druids have no unique spells, and lack some spells I feel they should have (most notably Tteleport, which is mandatory to finish MM4 without using what could be considered a cheat), and they're just not useful in that game. (In MM3, as I mentioned, they get Walk on Water and a few other unique spells, though they are missing Power Cure, which (along with Divine Intervention) is the only viable healing spell at higher levels.)

So, how does MM6 (and later?) do the calculation? Does it add them together rather than just averaging them?
Post edited April 14, 2019 by dtgreene
So, how does MM6 (and later?) do the calculation? Does it add them together rather than just averaging them?

Addition. Big pool of blue goo.
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snkboarder: Here me out: Half of the classes don't seem to have any real purpose other than to lead you away from better classes (Druid vs. Cleric, Archer vs. Sorcerer, Knight vs. Paladin, etc.).
Depends on what you want. Each class offers a different mixture of Physical, Self, Elemental, and Light/Dark. Knights are pure physical, Archers mix Physical with Elemental, Druids mix Self and Elemental, Clerics offer Self and Light/Dark, etc.
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snkboarder: Your non-tank classes end up being your tanks. In my current party, my Knight only ever receives AoE damage. Instead, because of target preferences of end-game mobs, my Cleric is basically only wearing +AC, +Resistance and +Endurance gear because mobs only ever attack them and they spend 90% of their time healing themselves. In terms of combat flow, that frees up the other three to attack non-stop. That just feels boring and wrong.
As opposed to the Cleric healing up other party members, freeing the other three up to attack non-stop?

What should the alternative be?
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snkboarder: With reputation requirements for light/dark magic, if you don't plan your quests ahead you can easily deny yourself one or the other (although many say they don't bother getting them, anyway).
There are always more peasants to murder, so you can't lock yourself out of Dark Master. Locking yourself out of Light Master IS a problem in MM6, though.
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snkboarder: I'm mostly just mad at Castle Darkmoor. WHY DOES CASTLE DARKMOOR EXIST!?! It's a joke on gamers, right? Right? Or did someone think that was a good idea?
Yes, the castles are a PITA. XD
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Larias: The archer class can be a disappointment also, because they don't have any extra skill with bows. I don't know why the designers didn't give them something, like they do in MM7+8.
The designers didn't give archers something in MM7+8 so much as take away something from everyone else. MM6 didn't include class related skill mastery restrictions. MM6 Archers do combine decent physical combat with Elemental magic, which is their big draw.
Castle Darkmoor is hard work. I approve of that. It offers opportunities to get smart, for example by using hit-everything-in-sight spells. By the time we HAVE to tackle it (for the Oracle), we've forgotten what hard work some of the early dungeons are (for low level parties to clean out completely): Goblinwatch's lower level; New Sorpigal's and Castle Ironfist's Baa temples with all their cave-tunnels; the Dragoons' cavern with its waterways full of ooze.

My complaints against it are minor: the two entrances both to the same place (first time in, by the ground level door, I tried to find an alternate exit to the upstairs one) and the trap-triggering bits of floor not showing up even to master level
Perception.
I have an annoying compulsion that tells me I haven't finished a dungeon in MM6 until there are no monsters left, anywhere. If that green gem goes yellow ANYWHERE, the dungeon's not complete.

Darkmoor is therefore one of my worst enemies, closely followed by Alamos. Goddamn is that place a maze.

I think I hate Darkmoor so much that it actually "forces" me to play magic-heavy parties. I know, physical damage is pretty terrible in comparison to late-game Dark magic at the best of times, but physical damage without Hour of Power in Darkmoor is so very, very frustrating.

That being said, I'm very glad it's the way it is. It's memorable because it's a slog, and I wouldn't have it any other way.

I have never really seen the point in the hybrid classes in the later MM games, other than for RP purposes. I simply don't see any point whatsoever in a Druid, or an Archer, or a Paladin.

Why take a Druid when you can take a Sorcerer, and a Cleric? Sure, Druids can learn Self + Elemental, but they can't learn Light/Dark, which are so, so, so much more powerful than Self in basically every sense of the word.

Why take an Archer or Paladin when you can take a Knight? The only times I can ever imagine that'd be useful is if the Paladin's your solo healer (pointless imho unless you simply hate Clerics), or if your Archer's your Fly/Portaler (again, pointless your Sorcerer's more than capable of filling that void, and more reliably with a far larger SP pool).

There's just no point in the Paladin's affinity with Self-magic buffs when Light magic party buffs completely make or break melee combat, and no point in the Archer's affinity with magic, when Sorcerers can spam far more Elemental damage without a break (and that's if you particularly don't like focusing on Dark magic and doing 3-4x as much damage as Elemental magic to begin with).
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Cameron_Allan: Why take a Druid when you can take a Sorcerer, and a Cleric? Sure, Druids can learn Self + Elemental, but they can't learn Light/Dark, which are so, so, so much more powerful than Self in basically every sense of the word.
1) A Druid is a single slot, while a Cleric + Sorcerer is two slots.
2) Mixes good Self and Elemental in a single slot. Light/Dark aren't available until halfway through the main story, and they don't have the incredibly useful spells of Fly, Town Portal, Jump, Enchant Item, or Protection From Magic. Because they aren't available until late, they also don't help with healing in the early portions of the game.
3) Can be a backup healer and a backup elementalist. Or could serve as primary healer and primary elementalist.
4) Mix your own black potions. No scrounging around for the stat boosters, and you can as many full heals in a bottle as you care to make.

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Cameron_Allan: Why take an Archer or Paladin when you can take a Knight? The only times I can ever imagine that'd be useful is if the Paladin's your solo healer (pointless imho unless you simply hate Clerics), or if your Archer's your Fly/Portaler (again, pointless your Sorcerer's more than capable of filling that void, and more reliably with a far larger SP pool).
In a basic sense, a Paladin can do every thing a Knight can do. The Paladin does sacrifice some weapon damage in favor of defensive power and healing. A Paladin can fix the Cleric if something happens, and the Paladin doesn't sacrifice GM Repair Item to do it.

An Archer has better weapons, armor, and hp than the sorcerer, sacrificing spell casting ability to do it.

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Cameron_Allan: There's just no point in the Paladin's affinity with Self-magic buffs when Light magic party buffs completely make or break melee combat, and no point in the Archer's affinity with magic, when Sorcerers can spam far more Elemental damage without a break (and that's if you particularly don't like focusing on Dark magic and doing 3-4x as much damage as Elemental magic to begin with).
These classes give more variety in party members, instead of always picking Knight + Cleric + Sorcerer + Whoever.
Druids are good early to middle because the Cleric gets it so often. Having a second healer in those cases is very important. Also, until Water Magic mastery (Town Portal, Lloyd's Beacon), their additional blue goo is very useful. And they can stay better protected than a sorcerer. If they concentrate on one elemental magic their power stays very high until everyone ends up with blasters. And even before then, while the Cleric uses Light Magic (usually my choice), the Druid reverts to healer. I like 'em (in MM6).
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Cameron_Allan: Why take a Druid when you can take a Sorcerer, and a Cleric? Sure, Druids can learn Self + Elemental, but they can't learn Light/Dark, which are so, so, so much more powerful than Self in basically every sense of the word.
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Bookwyrm627: 1) A Druid is a single slot, while a Cleric + Sorcerer is two slots.
2) Mixes good Self and Elemental in a single slot. Light/Dark aren't available until halfway through the main story, and they don't have the incredibly useful spells of Fly, Town Portal, Jump, Enchant Item, or Protection From Magic. Because they aren't available until late, they also don't help with healing in the early portions of the game.
3) Can be a backup healer and a backup elementalist. Or could serve as primary healer and primary elementalist.
4) Mix your own black potions. No scrounging around for the stat boosters, and you can as many full heals in a bottle as you care to make.

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Cameron_Allan: Why take an Archer or Paladin when you can take a Knight? The only times I can ever imagine that'd be useful is if the Paladin's your solo healer (pointless imho unless you simply hate Clerics), or if your Archer's your Fly/Portaler (again, pointless your Sorcerer's more than capable of filling that void, and more reliably with a far larger SP pool).
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Bookwyrm627: In a basic sense, a Paladin can do every thing a Knight can do. The Paladin does sacrifice some weapon damage in favor of defensive power and healing. A Paladin can fix the Cleric if something happens, and the Paladin doesn't sacrifice GM Repair Item to do it.

An Archer has better weapons, armor, and hp than the sorcerer, sacrificing spell casting ability to do it.

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Cameron_Allan: There's just no point in the Paladin's affinity with Self-magic buffs when Light magic party buffs completely make or break melee combat, and no point in the Archer's affinity with magic, when Sorcerers can spam far more Elemental damage without a break (and that's if you particularly don't like focusing on Dark magic and doing 3-4x as much damage as Elemental magic to begin with).
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Bookwyrm627: These classes give more variety in party members, instead of always picking Knight + Cleric + Sorcerer + Whoever.
I'd agree with you if we were talking about MM7, but this thread is about MM6 isn't it? You don't have GM skills, and if you learn a skill in 6, you can master it regardless of class. There isn't even an Alch skill in 6 I'm pretty sure, anyone can make anything if you can remember the recipe.

You can learn Light/Dark very, very early on if you want to in MM6, and even though the Cleric + Sorc is, as you say, 2 slots as opposed to the Druid's one slot, the Cleric + Sorc are both in their own right far, far more powerful than the Druid could ever hope to be as a result of their Dark prowess.

There just isn't any point in Elemental magic (outside travelling) at all, other than for party variety and killing Oozes, I guess is what I'm trying to say. If you dislike spamming Lloyd's Beacon back to New Sorpigal's temple for infinite health/mana (I hate it, it honestly feels like cheating), then Power Cure's all you really need on that front. Every single other buff from Self is entirely invalidated by Day of Protection + Hour of Power,.

But the variety thing's actually a pretty good point. If you just play 4 sorcs or 3 sorcs and a cleric every single game, sure, it's a stomp, but it gets old very fast.
Post edited April 25, 2019 by Cameron_Allan
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Cameron_Allan: I'd agree with you if we were talking about MM7, but this thread is about MM6 isn't it?
I digressed to MM7 after the following line, especially the bolded portion:

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Cameron_Allan: I have never really seen the point in the hybrid classes in the later MM games,
Druids aren't in MM8 and party creation works a lot differently in MM9, so I assumed you were referencing MM7 (as a later MM game than the one under discussion, MM6). Oops.

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For MM6, I'd say a Paladin actually makes a Knight redundant. The only thing the Knight has that the Paladin doesn't have is a few extra hp per level (and maybe a better Body Building multiplier), but the Paladin gets full Self magic in exchange, which lets him heal himself (and others!) on demand.

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Cameron_Allan: You can learn Light/Dark very, very early on if you want to in MM6, and even though the Cleric + Sorc is, as you say, 2 slots as opposed to the Druid's one slot, the Cleric + Sorc are both in their own right far, far more powerful than the Druid could ever hope to be as a result of their Dark prowess.

There just isn't any point in Elemental magic (outside travelling) at all, other than for party variety and killing Oozes, I guess is what I'm trying to say. If you dislike spamming Lloyd's Beacon back to New Sorpigal's temple for infinite health/mana (I hate it, it honestly feels like cheating), then Power Cure's all you really need on that front. Every single other buff from Self is entirely invalidated by Day of Protection + Hour of Power,.
Elemental damage is going to be your go-to for spell damage until the mid-levels, and the Druid getting spell points from both Intellect and Personality will let the Druid keep casting Elemental and Self at the same time.

I'll usually default to arrows to preserve my mp, but Elemental spells have always been my "Need to kill [thing] now" choice, especially early in the game. Sure, eventually Dark magic outstrips it (except for the opportunities available in Meteor Shower or Starburst), but the spell point cost is horrifying. Shrapmetal can make something dead, but it takes 50 mp per cast to do so. Yuck. Implosion is comparable damage to Poison Cloud for only 2/3rds of the cost.

Elemental magic doesn't do as much damage, but it provides sustainable casting, and you don't overpay to do overkill.

I fully agree about Day of Protection + Hour of Power, and Power Cure and Shared Life take care of healing in the late game, but I'd like to point out that Self and Elemental provide the spells to fix status effects. Light and Dark can't fix you up, not really. I know Divine Intervention is a Heal-All, but it has limited castings per day and it ages the caster.

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Cameron_Allan: But the variety thing's actually a pretty good point. If you just play 4 sorcs or 3 sorcs and a cleric every single game, sure, it's a stomp, but it gets old very fast.
Maybe one day I'll try out a Cleric + 3 Sorc run and see how it works for myself.
Jeez. All this talk of optimal party comps is making me rethink my Knight, Paladin, Cleric, Sorcer party. Is this viable? Or should I just start over?