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jamyskis: Yes, and the DLC is following DRM-free with it, isn't it?

Get your head out of your arse.
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amok: The DLC distribution is different. It has nothing to do with exclusively.

And while I may have my head firmly in my arse (nice and warm, by the way, I save a lot on hats) , I can at least manage to find it.
Let's stay civil people, please. It's just a game, after all. Not even a game at this point actually, just the possibility of one.

As for the exclusivity thing, I agree that you can get the game in other places than Steam, so it's hard to talk about exclusivity. However, the second city in the game was a stretch goal, and they've apparently decided to include it as DLC.
Which means that a sizable chunk of the game we decided to back will not be available elsewhere than Steam.
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amok: The DLC distribution is different. It has nothing to do with exclusively.

And while I may have my head firmly in my arse (nice and warm, by the way, I save a lot on hats) , I can at least manage to find it.
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mystral: Let's stay civil people, please. It's just a game, after all. Not even a game at this point actually, just the possibility of one.

As for the exclusivity thing, I agree that you can get the game in other places than Steam, so it's hard to talk about exclusivity. However, the second city in the game was a stretch goal, and they've apparently decided to include it as DLC.
Which means that a sizable chunk of the game we decided to back will not be available elsewhere than Steam.
I only answered in kind... apologies if I went to far.
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SimonG: I was reading the Kickstarter update and thought to check by GOG to see the shit flying. And I am not disappointed.

I don't really see the difference between this and Torchlight II or LoG, (apart from some unconfirmed DLC that may or may not be released in the future.). And they said they are using an "Account system" for the social elements. So it isn't really news at all. The game itself will be DRM free.

While this could have certainly handled better in terms of PR, I predict a drop in sales for about 0,5%. Heck, refunding the game to those who wouldn't back it anymore would probably be cheaper than setting up and maintaining the infrastructure on their page for the DRM free version. (Hyperbole and slight trolling)

I am very happy about backing the game and it is one of the very few games I am actually happy for a deluxe box edition.
My main problem with it is that the second city stretch goal is to be included as DLC (one that all backers get for free), which means it'll be exclusive to Steam versions.
I don't hate Steam, and if it's a good game, I'll still be happy to have backed it, but that part leaves me slightly annoyed I'll admit.
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The difference between this and Legend of Grimrock is that LoG uses also Nexus mods in addition to Steam Workshop, so for the GOG version you can just download any fan maps via browser (from Nexus) and put them in your LoG folder manually.

From that Kickstarter update, it seems like future DLC beyond the Berlin campaign, and all fan-made missions for Shadowrun will only be available for the Steam version.

It's a complete crippling of the DRM-free version. And no they aren't offering a GOG version, just a version downloaded from their website directly.
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mystral: Let's stay civil people, please. It's just a game, after all. Not even a game at this point actually, just the possibility of one.

As for the exclusivity thing, I agree that you can get the game in other places than Steam, so it's hard to talk about exclusivity. However, the second city in the game was a stretch goal, and they've apparently decided to include it as DLC.
Which means that a sizable chunk of the game we decided to back will not be available elsewhere than Steam.
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amok: I only answered in kind... apologies if I went to far.
You didn't go too far, or anything, and I wasn't singling you out. I just don't want to see the thread devolve into a flame war.
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And THIS is why I haven't donated to any kisckstarter fund yet. I just KNEW there'd be a douchebaggy dev that'd pull this.

You'd think that because the project wouldn't even exist without the backers in the first place that the dev's would be under some sort of obligation to deliver a 100% DRM-free experience, but alas, this appears to not be the case.

"Give us your money and we make you cool game!"

"Okay!"

"We have your money now, so here is a gimped version of the game you helped develop! Because we <3 DRM!"
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mystral: My main problem with it is that the second city stretch goal is to be included as DLC (one that all backers get for free), which means it'll be exclusive to Steam versions.
I don't hate Steam, and if it's a good game, I'll still be happy to have backed it, but that part leaves me slightly annoyed I'll admit.
If you mean the Berlin DLC, it will be DRM-free:

"While this version [DRM free] will include the Seattle story (and Berlin, via a one-time update), "

Berlin unwalled, if you will. (Damn, I'm witty) ;-P.

They probably crunched the numbers and without Steam the overhead is just too high. And for all we know, they might release a DRM free GOTY or whatnot in the future.

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fortune_p_dawg: You'd think that because the project wouldn't even exist without the backers in the first place that the dev's would be under some sort of obligation to deliver a 100% DRM-free experience, but alas, this appears to not be the case.
They downright said account software would be needed for 3rd party content. The never used the phrase 100% DRM free.

They said DRM free version on their page. Which they still provide.

This whole drama is more about people reading to much into the kickstarter page than anything else. And, just for the record, the funding for this project (and just about any other project) was going very fine before the DRM free version was even mentioned.
Post edited April 10, 2013 by SimonG
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mystral: My main problem with it is that the second city stretch goal is to be included as DLC (one that all backers get for free), which means it'll be exclusive to Steam versions.
I don't hate Steam, and if it's a good game, I'll still be happy to have backed it, but that part leaves me slightly annoyed I'll admit.
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SimonG: If you mean the Berlin DLC, it will be DRM-free:

"While this version [DRM free] will include the Seattle story (and Berlin, via a one-time update), "

Berlin unwalled, if you will. (Damn, I'm witty) ;-P.

They probably crunched the numbers and without Steam the overhead is just too high. And for all we know, they might release a DRM free GOTY or whatnot in the future.
Indeed. After rereading their update, it appears to be a huge reading comprehension fail on my part. Sorry about that.

So, I guess I'm still not very happy about it, but since I'm not one of those rabid Steam haters, I'll wait until the game's release to decide whether I'm glad to have backed it or not. Hopefully I can finally get to play a good RPG in the Shadowrun setting.
Post edited April 10, 2013 by mystral
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mystral: My main problem with it is that the second city stretch goal is to be included as DLC (one that all backers get for free), which means it'll be exclusive to Steam versions.
I don't hate Steam, and if it's a good game, I'll still be happy to have backed it, but that part leaves me slightly annoyed I'll admit.
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SimonG: If you mean the Berlin DLC, it will be DRM-free:

"While this version [DRM free] will include the Seattle story (and Berlin, via a one-time update), "

Berlin unwalled, if you will. (Damn, I'm witty) ;-P.

They probably crunched the numbers and without Steam the overhead is just too high. And for all we know, they might release a DRM free GOTY or whatnot in the future.

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fortune_p_dawg: You'd think that because the project wouldn't even exist without the backers in the first place that the dev's would be under some sort of obligation to deliver a 100% DRM-free experience, but alas, this appears to not be the case.
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SimonG: They downright said account software would be needed for 3rd party content. The never used the phrase 100% DRM free.

They said DRM free version on their page. Which they still provide.

This whole drama is more about people reading to much into the kickstarter page than anything else. And, just for the record, the funding for this project (and just about any other project) was going very fine before the DRM free version was even mentioned.
Yeah, but it's still a gimped version. I'm not anti-Steam or anything (though I prefer DRM-free) but it'd be nice to get the full story on a games DRM, or lack thereof, before asking for monetary handouts.
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SimonG: [...]
What would be the huge overhead in releasing the game on another platform beside Steam?
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fortune_p_dawg: Yeah, but it's still a gimped version. I'm not anti-Steam or anything (though I prefer DRM-free) but it'd be nice to get the full story on a games DRM, or lack thereof, before asking for monetary handouts.
Which they did offer, right down on their kickstarter page.

"While the details are still being worked out, we hate draconian DRM as much as the next guy. We expect there will be an account system but it would be primarily used to enable the social elements of the game like mission and character sharing--not to restrict access to the game itself."

I would be very willing to expect the "Dungeons of Dreadmore treatment". Game using pretty much all of the Steam feature, except the DRM (CGE or whatever is is called).

This game doesn't have a retail release, there they don't really need DRM.

I guess most people are so up in arms because other Kickstarters went overboard with DRM free marketing. And people asume the same for this one. But they said from the get go that this would happen.

The core game is completely DRM free.
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fortune_p_dawg: Yeah, but it's still a gimped version. I'm not anti-Steam or anything (though I prefer DRM-free) but it'd be nice to get the full story on a games DRM, or lack thereof, before asking for monetary handouts.
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SimonG: Which they did offer, right down on their kickstarter page.

"While the details are still being worked out, we hate draconian DRM as much as the next guy. We expect there will be an account system but it would be primarily used to enable the social elements of the game like mission and character sharing--not to restrict access to the game itself."

I would be very willing to expect the "Dungeons of Dreadmore treatment". Game using pretty much all of the Steam feature, except the DRM (CGE or whatever is is called).

This game doesn't have a retail release, there they don't really need DRM.

I guess most people are so up in arms because other Kickstarters went overboard with DRM free marketing. And people asume the same for this one. But they said from the get go that this would happen.

The core game is completely DRM free.
Well, I guess if they're upfront about it that's one thing.
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fortune_p_dawg: Yeah, but it's still a gimped version. I'm not anti-Steam or anything (though I prefer DRM-free) but it'd be nice to get the full story on a games DRM, or lack thereof, before asking for monetary handouts.
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SimonG: Which they did offer, right down on their kickstarter page.

"While the details are still being worked out, we hate draconian DRM as much as the next guy. We expect there will be an account system but it would be primarily used to enable the social elements of the game like mission and character sharing--not to restrict access to the game itself."

I would be very willing to expect the "Dungeons of Dreadmore treatment". Game using pretty much all of the Steam feature, except the DRM (CGE or whatever is is called).

This game doesn't have a retail release, there they don't really need DRM.

I guess most people are so up in arms because other Kickstarters went overboard with DRM free marketing. And people asume the same for this one. But they said from the get go that this would happen.

The core game is completely DRM free.
That may end up being true, but the additional content or access to mods isn't.
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SimonG: [...]
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Fesin: What would be the huge overhead in releasing the game on another platform beside Steam?
Apart from bandwith, accounting and legal costs by providing a version on their own homepage, you need extra effort and support for stand alone patches, etc.

Not a big issue if your name is EA or Ubisoft. But this is an app developer, who doesn't even have a wikipedia page.

Now, providing a DRM free version on GOG would mitigate some of those costs (but not the manpower costs, which are probably the highest), I guess they couldn't reach a financial deal with GOG. Which isn't surprising, as they aren't the first dev to come out and say GOG takes a bigger cut than other stores.

More and more companies have discovered that besides all the screaming and shouting, DRM free is not worth the effort. When even a big player like paradox is moving away from DRM free, why should a small time dev take the risk?
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SimonG: [...]
With "another platform" I meant "another digital distributor". And there are a lot more options than GOG.com, even if it would be true that they couldn't reach an agreement with them. Humble Store, Desura and DotEmu come to mind. And I don't see how that would cost more - develop a patch and distribute it to all the partners. Done.

They did it for decades before DD came into play, I honestly don't believe it's such an insurmountable hurdle.