Posted April 12, 2013
thelovebat
Falcon...Brunch!
thelovebat Sorry, data for given user is currently unavailable. Please, try again later. View profile View wishlist Start conversation Invite to friends Invite to friends Accept invitation Accept invitation Pending invitation... Unblock chat Registered: Jun 2010
From United States
oasis789
betrayed krondor
oasis789 Sorry, data for given user is currently unavailable. Please, try again later. View profile View wishlist Start conversation Invite to friends Invite to friends Accept invitation Accept invitation Pending invitation... Unblock chat Registered: May 2011
From United States
Posted April 12, 2013
So it comes down to a licensing issue with FASA?
thelovebat
Falcon...Brunch!
thelovebat Sorry, data for given user is currently unavailable. Please, try again later. View profile View wishlist Start conversation Invite to friends Invite to friends Accept invitation Accept invitation Pending invitation... Unblock chat Registered: Jun 2010
From United States
Posted April 12, 2013
the_bard: Our Tuesday Kickstarter update generated many questions, particularly concerning the Steam vs. DRM-Free versions of the game. As we said, we wanted to wait until today to allow time for everyone’s questions and feedback to bubble up so we could write another update to address as many as we can, in one place.
You funded this project because you saw something in our Kickstarter that resonated with you personally and made you want to be a part of it. Backers pledged more than financial support - you invested your belief in our ideas and gave us your trust that we would do what we said we would. We take that trust very seriously and are doing our best to be worthy of it.
With your support, we will always do our best to fix problems or concerns that arise, with the understanding that some of the issues we must deal with may not always appear obvious to the community. We will endeavor to communicate such things more clearly and promptly to you, our Backers, whenever it is possible for us to do so.
So let’s start here: We clearly left some critical information too vague, which resulted in some bad feelings and speculation. We are sorry about that and we’re going to fix that poor communication right now.
To reiterate, our Backers don’t have to choose a DRM-free version of the game or a Steam version of the game. You get both.
Backers who want a DRM-free experience with Shadowrun Returns (on Windows, OSX, and Linux) are getting the game, editor and all, and will be able to transfer community-created story files and update executables manually. (It works just like a non-Steam version of Skyrim: you can install mods manually or via a 3rd-party tool such as Nexus.) The DRM-free version will not require any internet connection or any form of online authorization to play. In addition, Backers who like the convenience and reliability of Steam and who want automatic updates, easy-to-browse content, and a DLC store are getting them.
We said that post-Berlin Campaign DLC would only be available on Steam but we never said why. We regret the omission. The reason is that our license to develop Shadowrun Returns actually requires that the game and its DLC be distributed under DRM. This didn’t come up earlier because the situation was complicated by the number of parties involved in the license and because the process was “ongoing”. Ultimately, we were able to successfully negotiate an exception with Microsoft for us to provide our Backers with a DRM-free version of the Kickstarter rewards (specifically the game and the Berlin Campaign) but that exception does not extend to non-reward DLC. So unfortunately, we cannot sell or give away DRM-free versions of the game or DLC on stores like GoG, and that’s why any future Shadowrun Returns DLC will only be available for purchase on Steam.
We will be updating/bugfixing the DRM-free versions (Windows, OSX, and Linux) of Shadowrun Returns, maintaining them along with the Steam versions. These updates will require Backers to re-download the game from the Harebrained Account Website, since it will not include auto-patching functionality.
So not only are backers not getting anything on the dogtags for the $125 tier like they were promised (DRM free version of the game + soundtrack), they also didn't bother to take care of the licensing issues with Microsoft first before having DRM free rewards on the pledges. They only have themselves to blame for this mess and weren't patient enough to make sure that all potential issues were ironed out BEFORE doing the Kickstarter. If they would have taken more time to make sure things were more clear and less vague with their initial Kickstarter (even in the previous update as well) then people wouldn't be such up in arms about this now.You funded this project because you saw something in our Kickstarter that resonated with you personally and made you want to be a part of it. Backers pledged more than financial support - you invested your belief in our ideas and gave us your trust that we would do what we said we would. We take that trust very seriously and are doing our best to be worthy of it.
With your support, we will always do our best to fix problems or concerns that arise, with the understanding that some of the issues we must deal with may not always appear obvious to the community. We will endeavor to communicate such things more clearly and promptly to you, our Backers, whenever it is possible for us to do so.
So let’s start here: We clearly left some critical information too vague, which resulted in some bad feelings and speculation. We are sorry about that and we’re going to fix that poor communication right now.
To reiterate, our Backers don’t have to choose a DRM-free version of the game or a Steam version of the game. You get both.
Backers who want a DRM-free experience with Shadowrun Returns (on Windows, OSX, and Linux) are getting the game, editor and all, and will be able to transfer community-created story files and update executables manually. (It works just like a non-Steam version of Skyrim: you can install mods manually or via a 3rd-party tool such as Nexus.) The DRM-free version will not require any internet connection or any form of online authorization to play. In addition, Backers who like the convenience and reliability of Steam and who want automatic updates, easy-to-browse content, and a DLC store are getting them.
We said that post-Berlin Campaign DLC would only be available on Steam but we never said why. We regret the omission. The reason is that our license to develop Shadowrun Returns actually requires that the game and its DLC be distributed under DRM. This didn’t come up earlier because the situation was complicated by the number of parties involved in the license and because the process was “ongoing”. Ultimately, we were able to successfully negotiate an exception with Microsoft for us to provide our Backers with a DRM-free version of the Kickstarter rewards (specifically the game and the Berlin Campaign) but that exception does not extend to non-reward DLC. So unfortunately, we cannot sell or give away DRM-free versions of the game or DLC on stores like GoG, and that’s why any future Shadowrun Returns DLC will only be available for purchase on Steam.
We will be updating/bugfixing the DRM-free versions (Windows, OSX, and Linux) of Shadowrun Returns, maintaining them along with the Steam versions. These updates will require Backers to re-download the game from the Harebrained Account Website, since it will not include auto-patching functionality.
the_bard
Brewed in Dublin
the_bard Sorry, data for given user is currently unavailable. Please, try again later. View profile View wishlist Start conversation Invite to friends Invite to friends Accept invitation Accept invitation Pending invitation... Unblock chat Registered: Nov 2011
From United States
Posted April 12, 2013
Post edited April 12, 2013 by the_bard
orcishgamer
Mad and Green
orcishgamer Sorry, data for given user is currently unavailable. Please, try again later. View profile View wishlist Start conversation Invite to friends Invite to friends Accept invitation Accept invitation Pending invitation... Unblock chat Registered: Jun 2010
From United States
Posted April 12, 2013
Apparently so, and when the backers asked, they fucking went to bat for us and got us DRM free backer rewards. That's pretty much the opposite of something to be pissed about.
Fucking awesome!
Promise fulfilled, seriously, don't be a tool to them about this. Even with the problems this is one of the best fucking deals going on in gaming right now, period! Yes, I backed this at a high level and I'm happy.
Fucking awesome!
thelovebat: So not only are backers not getting anything on the dogtags for the $125 tier like they were promised (DRM free version of the game + soundtrack), they also didn't bother to take care of the licensing issues with Microsoft first before having DRM free rewards on the pledges. They only have themselves to blame for this mess and weren't patient enough to make sure that all potential issues were ironed out BEFORE doing the Kickstarter. If they would have taken more time to make sure things were more clear and less vague with their initial Kickstarter (even in the previous update as well) then people wouldn't be such up in arms about this now.
Dude, they didn't know DRM free would be a backer demand, this was one of the very first Kickstarter games from a big group, and the very first (iirc) using a huge licensed property. When we demanded DRM free they went and got the best fucking deal they could get, doing so after they'd launched the KS campaign probably gave them a hell of a lot less leverage. Promise fulfilled, seriously, don't be a tool to them about this. Even with the problems this is one of the best fucking deals going on in gaming right now, period! Yes, I backed this at a high level and I'm happy.
Post edited April 12, 2013 by orcishgamer
Fictionvision
Registered: Jul 2012
From United States
Posted April 12, 2013
So if they aren't allowed to sell the game DRM free, what would they have done if for whatever reason they didn't get an automatic pass on to Steam? "Hey guys, your game will need GFWL for future DLC!"?
Also wouldn't making sure you can sell the game where and how you want be something they got cleared up when making sure they could get the rights if they raised enough money?
Edit: Also this tells me that Microsoft won't be coming to GOG if they have issues with their games/licenses being sold DRM Free.
Also wouldn't making sure you can sell the game where and how you want be something they got cleared up when making sure they could get the rights if they raised enough money?
Edit: Also this tells me that Microsoft won't be coming to GOG if they have issues with their games/licenses being sold DRM Free.
Post edited April 12, 2013 by Fictionvision
jackalKnight
New User
jackalKnight Sorry, data for given user is currently unavailable. Please, try again later. View profile View wishlist Start conversation Invite to friends Invite to friends Accept invitation Accept invitation Pending invitation... Unblock chat Registered: Mar 2011
From United States
Posted April 12, 2013
jackalKnight: The GOG version wouldn't have had paid DLC either if the nuclear reaction that the Omerta DLC got was any evidence.
thelovebat: Probably because Omerta isn't a great game and 20mb DLC being sold for $5 people didn't like. I love GOG as a service, but the whiny portion of its userbase severely limits its potential offerings.
Gonchi
Incorrigible
Gonchi Sorry, data for given user is currently unavailable. Please, try again later. View profile View wishlist Start conversation Invite to friends Invite to friends Accept invitation Accept invitation Pending invitation... Unblock chat Registered: Dec 2010
From Uruguay
Posted April 12, 2013
orcishgamer: Apparently so, and when the backers asked, they fucking went to bat for us and got us DRM free backer rewards. That's pretty much the opposite of something to be pissed about.
Fucking awesome!
Promise fulfilled, seriously, don't be a tool to them about this. Even with the problems this is one of the best fucking deals going on in gaming right now, period! Yes, I backed this at a high level and I'm happy.
DRM-Free was never demanded, it was offered up from the get go. HBS might not have lied to us, but they definitely deceived us. Fucking awesome!
thelovebat: So not only are backers not getting anything on the dogtags for the $125 tier like they were promised (DRM free version of the game + soundtrack), they also didn't bother to take care of the licensing issues with Microsoft first before having DRM free rewards on the pledges. They only have themselves to blame for this mess and weren't patient enough to make sure that all potential issues were ironed out BEFORE doing the Kickstarter. If they would have taken more time to make sure things were more clear and less vague with their initial Kickstarter (even in the previous update as well) then people wouldn't be such up in arms about this now.
orcishgamer: Dude, they didn't know DRM free would be a backer demand, this was one of the very first Kickstarter games from a big group, and the very first (iirc) using a huge licensed property. When we demanded DRM free they went and got the best fucking deal they could get, doing so after they'd launched the KS campaign probably gave them a hell of a lot less leverage. Promise fulfilled, seriously, don't be a tool to them about this. Even with the problems this is one of the best fucking deals going on in gaming right now, period! Yes, I backed this at a high level and I'm happy.
Thankfully, pirat-erm, I mean, "modders" will fix it.
Post edited April 12, 2013 by Gonchi
thelovebat
Falcon...Brunch!
thelovebat Sorry, data for given user is currently unavailable. Please, try again later. View profile View wishlist Start conversation Invite to friends Invite to friends Accept invitation Accept invitation Pending invitation... Unblock chat Registered: Jun 2010
From United States
Posted April 12, 2013
orcishgamer: Apparently so, and when the backers asked, they fucking went to bat for us and got us DRM free backer rewards. That's pretty much the opposite of something to be pissed about.
Fucking awesome!
Promise fulfilled, seriously, don't be a tool to them about this. Even with the problems this is one of the best fucking deals going on in gaming right now, period! Yes, I backed this at a high level and I'm happy.
And what about non-backers like me that were expecting a DRM free release? What if we didn't want to get the game on Steam when it came out? What if we didn't have money to spare when the Kickstarter happened to be running and couldn't fund it? Fucking awesome!
thelovebat: So not only are backers not getting anything on the dogtags for the $125 tier like they were promised (DRM free version of the game + soundtrack), they also didn't bother to take care of the licensing issues with Microsoft first before having DRM free rewards on the pledges. They only have themselves to blame for this mess and weren't patient enough to make sure that all potential issues were ironed out BEFORE doing the Kickstarter. If they would have taken more time to make sure things were more clear and less vague with their initial Kickstarter (even in the previous update as well) then people wouldn't be such up in arms about this now.
orcishgamer: Dude, they didn't know DRM free would be a backer demand, this was one of the very first Kickstarter games from a big group, and the very first (iirc) using a huge licensed property. When we demanded DRM free they went and got the best fucking deal they could get, doing so after they'd launched the KS campaign probably gave them a hell of a lot less leverage. Promise fulfilled, seriously, don't be a tool to them about this. Even with the problems this is one of the best fucking deals going on in gaming right now, period! Yes, I backed this at a high level and I'm happy.
orcishgamer: Apparently so, and when the backers asked, they fucking went to bat for us and got us DRM free backer rewards. That's pretty much the opposite of something to be pissed about.
Fucking awesome!
Dude, they didn't know DRM free would be a backer demand, this was one of the very first Kickstarter games from a big group, and the very first (iirc) using a huge licensed property. When we demanded DRM free they went and got the best fucking deal they could get, doing so after they'd launched the KS campaign probably gave them a hell of a lot less leverage.
Promise fulfilled, seriously, don't be a tool to them about this. Even with the problems this is one of the best fucking deals going on in gaming right now, period! Yes, I backed this at a high level and I'm happy.
Gonchi: DRM-Free was never demanded, it was offered up from the get go. HBS might not have lied to us, but they definitely deceived us. Fucking awesome!
Dude, they didn't know DRM free would be a backer demand, this was one of the very first Kickstarter games from a big group, and the very first (iirc) using a huge licensed property. When we demanded DRM free they went and got the best fucking deal they could get, doing so after they'd launched the KS campaign probably gave them a hell of a lot less leverage.
Promise fulfilled, seriously, don't be a tool to them about this. Even with the problems this is one of the best fucking deals going on in gaming right now, period! Yes, I backed this at a high level and I'm happy.
Thankfully, pirat-erm, I mean, "modders" will fix it.
Post edited April 12, 2013 by thelovebat
orcishgamer
Mad and Green
orcishgamer Sorry, data for given user is currently unavailable. Please, try again later. View profile View wishlist Start conversation Invite to friends Invite to friends Accept invitation Accept invitation Pending invitation... Unblock chat Registered: Jun 2010
From United States
Posted April 12, 2013
orcishgamer: Apparently so, and when the backers asked, they fucking went to bat for us and got us DRM free backer rewards. That's pretty much the opposite of something to be pissed about.
Fucking awesome!
Dude, they didn't know DRM free would be a backer demand, this was one of the very first Kickstarter games from a big group, and the very first (iirc) using a huge licensed property. When we demanded DRM free they went and got the best fucking deal they could get, doing so after they'd launched the KS campaign probably gave them a hell of a lot less leverage.
Promise fulfilled, seriously, don't be a tool to them about this. Even with the problems this is one of the best fucking deals going on in gaming right now, period! Yes, I backed this at a high level and I'm happy.
thelovebat: And what about non-backers like me that were expecting a DRM free release? What if we didn't want to get the game on Steam when it came out? What if we didn't have money to spare when the Kickstarter happened to be running and couldn't fund it? Fucking awesome!
Dude, they didn't know DRM free would be a backer demand, this was one of the very first Kickstarter games from a big group, and the very first (iirc) using a huge licensed property. When we demanded DRM free they went and got the best fucking deal they could get, doing so after they'd launched the KS campaign probably gave them a hell of a lot less leverage.
Promise fulfilled, seriously, don't be a tool to them about this. Even with the problems this is one of the best fucking deals going on in gaming right now, period! Yes, I backed this at a high level and I'm happy.
I'm sorry you had issues and couldn't get the 15 or 20 together to back it, but to me it seems that you, personally, were promised jack and shit and really don't have a valid complaint. I get it sucks to be disappointed but all you had were assumptions and that's a far cry from a commitment on the developers' part.
hedwards
buy Evil Genius
hedwards Sorry, data for given user is currently unavailable. Please, try again later. View profile View wishlist Start conversation Invite to friends Invite to friends Accept invitation Accept invitation Pending invitation... Unblock chat Registered: Nov 2008
From United States
Posted April 12, 2013
high rated
orcishgamer: Dude, they didn't know DRM free would be a backer demand, this was one of the very first Kickstarter games from a big group, and the very first (iirc) using a huge licensed property. When we demanded DRM free they went and got the best fucking deal they could get, doing so after they'd launched the KS campaign probably gave them a hell of a lot less leverage.
Promise fulfilled, seriously, don't be a tool to them about this. Even with the problems this is one of the best fucking deals going on in gaming right now, period! Yes, I backed this at a high level and I'm happy.
I'm going to be asking for my money back. I backed it because it was DRM free and I really don't care why they can't deliver they should have been honest about it in the first place. I don't think that it's right for me to pay the same price and get less than what the rest of the folks are getting. Promise fulfilled, seriously, don't be a tool to them about this. Even with the problems this is one of the best fucking deals going on in gaming right now, period! Yes, I backed this at a high level and I'm happy.
If they had a licensing problem that should have been revealed when we had a chance to back out. Taking our money and then changing the terms is not cool. I really don't care what you think, I got taken advantage of.
jackalKnight
New User
jackalKnight Sorry, data for given user is currently unavailable. Please, try again later. View profile View wishlist Start conversation Invite to friends Invite to friends Accept invitation Accept invitation Pending invitation... Unblock chat Registered: Mar 2011
From United States
Posted April 12, 2013
low rated
Lulz at this thread and the one on the Kickstarter.
"Gabe Newell is a gateway to FACISM!!!111!"
"I didn't pay for the DRM free copy that was never promised to me because I didn't back the Kickstarter in the first place, but I want it NOOOWWWWW!"
"Gabe Newell is a gateway to FACISM!!!111!"
"I didn't pay for the DRM free copy that was never promised to me because I didn't back the Kickstarter in the first place, but I want it NOOOWWWWW!"
the_bard
Brewed in Dublin
the_bard Sorry, data for given user is currently unavailable. Please, try again later. View profile View wishlist Start conversation Invite to friends Invite to friends Accept invitation Accept invitation Pending invitation... Unblock chat Registered: Nov 2011
From United States
hedwards
buy Evil Genius
hedwards Sorry, data for given user is currently unavailable. Please, try again later. View profile View wishlist Start conversation Invite to friends Invite to friends Accept invitation Accept invitation Pending invitation... Unblock chat Registered: Nov 2008
From United States
Posted April 12, 2013
thelovebat: And what about non-backers like me that were expecting a DRM free release? What if we didn't want to get the game on Steam when it came out? What if we didn't have money to spare when the Kickstarter happened to be running and couldn't fund it?
orcishgamer: What about it? It seems you shouldn't be complaining about the $125 reward level, that's what. I'm sorry you had issues and couldn't get the 15 or 20 together to back it, but to me it seems that you, personally, were promised jack and shit and really don't have a valid complaint. I get it sucks to be disappointed but all you had were assumptions and that's a far cry from a commitment on the developers' part.
GaminggUy45
Galaxy Explorer
GaminggUy45 Sorry, data for given user is currently unavailable. Please, try again later. View profile View wishlist Start conversation Invite to friends Invite to friends Accept invitation Accept invitation Pending invitation... Unblock chat Registered: Feb 2012
From United States
Posted April 12, 2013
Fictionvision: So if they aren't allowed to sell the game DRM free, what would they have done if for whatever reason they didn't get an automatic pass on to Steam? "Hey guys, your game will need GFWL for future DLC!"?
Also wouldn't making sure you can sell the game where and how you want be something they got cleared up when making sure they could get the rights if they raised enough money?
Edit: Also this tells me that Microsoft won't be coming to GOG if they have issues with their games/licenses being sold DRM Free.
Yeah I'm guessing Microsoft isn't one of the new publishers GOG will be announcing.Also wouldn't making sure you can sell the game where and how you want be something they got cleared up when making sure they could get the rights if they raised enough money?
Edit: Also this tells me that Microsoft won't be coming to GOG if they have issues with their games/licenses being sold DRM Free.