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General discussion (archive)Release: Giana Sisters: Rise of the Owlverlord(80 posts)(80 posts)
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This is my favourite topic
Posted October 01, 2013
You'll have a hoot!

Giana Sisters: Rise of the Owlverlord, a standalone expansion to the fantastic colorful platformer that constantly shifts between two imaginative worlds, is available 10% off on GOG.com. That's only $4.49 for the first week.

One of them is a perky blonde, always cheerful and smiling. Looking at her you would imagine that she makes her grandma proud. The other one is a feisty redhead with an attitude and punky style. This one is the kind of girl your grandma warned you about. This good girl/bad girl duo call themselves the Giana Sisters. But here's the kicker. They are actually the same person. Imagine that. If this isn't the most prominent illustration of the dissociative identity disorder in video games, than I don't know what is. Giana's split personality makes her experience two very different worlds, each with its very distinctive mood. Even the music she hears in her head changes on a whim. Life must be difficult for a platform game character with that sort of condition. Would you kindly help Giana along her way through her twisted dreams before the Evil Owlverlord takes over?

Giana Sisters: Rise of the Owlverlord brings a total of seven new extensive action-packed levels to the colorful Giana Sisters universe. Each of the main heroine's two personalities plays a little bit different and travels through its own dream. Master the original reality-shifting mechanics to overcome obstacles that wouldn't budge any other way. If you enjoy solid platforming gameplay with some imaginative twists allowing for unique puzzles and imaginative level design, make sure not to miss this gem of a standalone expansion. It's more than worth its tiny price tag.

Blast through the dreamworld and nightmareworld to take on your arch-nemesis in Giana Sisters: Rise of the Owlverlord, for only $4.49 on GOG.com. The 10% launch discount offer lasts until Tuesday, October 8, at 9:59AM GMT.
Posted October 02, 2013
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Piranjade: I really wouldn't call it a patch but rather extra content. It's an additional mode ("Sweet Dreams").
Even after the Giana Sisters: Twisted Dreams was released Black Forest Games continued to add extra content for free like the Halloween and Christmas levels and yes, this mode. I thought that it was nice of them to continue adding to the game.
And now the reason not to buy Rise of the Owlverlord is that we haven't received one piece of additional free content on GOG (yet)?
It was also a bug fix patch, and there were two additional languages in it.

It's not about "oh they didnt giv us kontent not faiirrrrrr", it's about how they've treated their customers. They told us it would take a month - a whole frigging month - to bring a patch to GOG after the Steam version. Any dev worth their salt can tell you it does not take a month to do that. On top of that, those who Kickstarted the project have been treated worse than those of us who bought on GOG, which is flat-out unacceptable. You don't bite the hand that feeds you.

So yes, whilst some of us are annoyed over the lack of a new game mode, some might want those languages and so forth, it's more about the *principle* of the matter. And if a game needs patching, and you've not yet delivered that patch (nor delivered it on time), then what you certainly do not do is release more paid content.
Posted October 02, 2013
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coldalarm: So yes, whilst some of us are annoyed over the lack of a new game mode, some might want those languages and so forth, it's more about the *principle* of the matter. And if a game needs patching, and you've not yet delivered that patch (nor delivered it on time), then what you certainly do not do is release more paid content.
Even if you need the money?
Posted October 02, 2013
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coldalarm: So yes, whilst some of us are annoyed over the lack of a new game mode, some might want those languages and so forth, it's more about the *principle* of the matter. And if a game needs patching, and you've not yet delivered that patch (nor delivered it on time), then what you certainly do not do is release more paid content.
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Piranjade: Even if you need the money?
Put the game on sale when you start to have money issues. The game has been on sale numerous times on Steam over the past few months (it's been on sale on GOG twice in that time). Use [url=http://isthereanydeal.com/#/search:%5EGiana%20Sisters%3A%20Twisted%20Dreams%24;/scroll:%23highlights]this price tracker[/url] for info. The devs had Twisted Dreams on sale on Steam *throughout* the pre-order period for the expandalone (and also had it bundled), neither of which they have done on GOG.

The patch hit Steam two months ago, and also had trading card support, *and* had a deep discount daily deal. That equals money.

Oh, and the pricing for the expansion is completely ridiculous, too. GOG's 10% brings it to $4.49, compared to Steam's £3.59 (for me in the UK), meaning the Steam version is something like 33% more expensive (£2.71 on GOG, £3.59 on Steam) which seems quite odd.

Basically I don't really have any faith in these guys. They don't seem to have a clue what they're doing.
Posted October 02, 2013
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coldalarm: Basically I don't really have any faith in these guys. They don't seem to have a clue what they're doing.
The fact they launched the Wii U version with no sound on the gamepad in off-tv mode pretty much confirms these guys are bad at their job.

Wishlisted this until they deliver the promised patch for the main title.
Posted October 02, 2013
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coldalarm: [...] On top of that, those who Kickstarted the project have been treated worse than those of us who bought on GOG, which is flat-out unacceptable. You don't bite the hand that feeds you.
I have to agree. I was a (PayPal) Backer, and I experienced a total lack of information from BFGs side.
Every single bit of news regarding the game, and the extras my Pledge-level included, I had to look up in their forum...not that it would have been put there from their side.
I stumbled - several times (!) - over comments from other Backers (original KS-Backers/ CC-holders), that had some issues with stuff, that I was supposed to get, too - and which was released without informing me.

After I was told, I'd have to wait, the stuff wasn't done yet - and I would receive an email, when it's done!

Now, this may be ok once, maybe twice...but if you have to run constantly after that guys and have to "hassle" them, only to get the stuff, you paid for...then that's definitely not ok.

It always was: "Oh, we have some problems with some email-addresses, if you didn't receive an email regarding...blahblahblah...please contact me over PM..." - It made you wonder how often one has to send an email, before the address gets saved on their side.

And I had to jump through that hoop for every single bit.
Now, I am a very patient man...but that made me angry.

The only good thing that came around - they gave us Backers free steam-keys, too...so I can play a patched version of the game - just not the one, I backed - ironically.

EDIT: Oh, nearly forgot - I also bought GS:TD here on GOG, just to be on the save side (having a DRM-free, patched Version away from Steam and without the hassle to regulary visit their forum)...and you see, what that has brought me. ;-)

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coldalarm: [...] And if a game needs patching, and you've not yet delivered that patch [...], then what you certainly do not do is release more paid content.
QFT
Post edited October 02, 2013 by BreOl72
Posted October 04, 2013
I still need to play through the first one. It's cool that this came out though. For some reason I buy all the indy platformers out there :D
Posted October 04, 2013
Black Forest Games is a very small developer who produced an amazing game that outclasses competing products produced with ten times the manpower and budget. They are very dedicated, but seem to have too much going on at the moment, so the patches were delayed.

While I can understand the feeling of having been left out, I have also played through the entire game on patchlevel 1.0.2 and didn't encounter a single bug. Patched beyond 1.0.2 are certainly nice, but by no means crucial. As a small developer, BFG has to set priorities, and even though I would like to have the 1.1.1 patch myself, I completely understand why bringing the game to another platform (and opening thereby a new revenue channel) had higher priority than providing a non-crucial patch for the DRM-free version.

Here on GOG, we keep lamenting that many great developers went out of business. We bemoan that Fallout couldn't stay with the original developers, that Planescape: Torment was a one-hit wonder, that no one produces games like Daggerfall anymore, that Troika went bankrupt after Vampire: Bloodlines, etc. Several of these games were a bug-ridden mess when they were released, and some required extensive work to even become playable. And now we have an amazing, dedicated, and very talented developer here who happens to be late on delivering a non-crucial patch, and people take that as a reason to worsen the dev's situation by withholding their purchase of the expansion (which,k by the way, is of the same excellent quality as the base game, I'm playing it as we speak).

Am I the only one seeing a problem in this behavior?

I have a hunch that five years from now, the same people to whom the delay of a patch is a criminal offense will sit here and lament that no one is producing games like Giana Sisters any more ...
Posted October 05, 2013
They weren't bringing it to a new platform, the Steam release of the game had been out for months already. This wasn't even the first patch since the Steam release, but this time they decided to ignore releasing the patch for DRM-free copies.
Posted October 05, 2013
Oh, come on ...

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Penquin: They weren't bringing it to a new platform,
What else would you call the Wii U?

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Penquin: the Steam release of the game had been out for months already.
Yep. Which, you know, _could_ have triggered a thought like "so that Psyringe guy was probably referring to the Wii U release."

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Penquin: This wasn't even the first patch since the Steam release, but this time they decided to ignore releasing the patch for DRM-free copies.
The didn't "ignore" DRM-free copies. They released a patch for Steam (biggest userbase) in July, then focused on the Wii U release (because that needed all the energy they could muster), and delayed the patch for the non-Steam versions until that was out of the way. Which makes sense, since the current DRM-free release is fully functional without it.

They never said they didn't care about the DRM-free releases or wouldn't provide a patch for them. They simply stated that they have limited resources and therefore had to focus on the Wii release for a while, and will provide the patch now that this is out of the way. One might think that people in a community like GOG would understand that.

The madness becomes obvious when you realize that this patch 1.1.1 only provides additions (like an "Easy" mode) that weren't even planned or announced when people bought the game. The game can be played perfectly without it. The patch is basically a sign of the developer's dedication to keep improving the game even after the bugs were fixed. And instead of recognizing that we have a developer here who keeps polishing his product even though it works very well already, people are butthurt that someone else got those perks 3 months earlier than they will get it. Seriously, I understand that people want the latest perks for their game, but I don't understand the drama. It's not as if we wouldn't get that coveted "Easy" mode at all.
Post edited October 05, 2013 by Psyringe
Posted October 05, 2013
good post @ Psyringe.

Some remarks rom my point of view:

A GOG Moderator told that Giana Sisters Twisted Dreams will get an update to 1.1.2, which is probably the final version, within this month. So why we are talking about that BFG is not delivering patches to the GOG version ?!? They will!! Maybe you should argue that you guys don't get it as fast as the others using STEAM, because that would be a reasonable argument.

ALL backers of the original game got a STEAM Key. So at the end they got the game twice. DRM Free and on STEAM. Also if you backed more then 25 $ you get all addons, dlcs or whatever you call it, for free (via Steam or if you want via GOG).

Also all Ravensdale backers got a free version of Giana Sisters Twisted Dreams Rise of the Owlverlord as well. Still something which was quite surprising for me and is not really common even on kickstarter...

As for the patch level of the original game. I finished the game with version 1.0.0 which had a really hard end boss... Yes there were some bugs in this version but nothing major... and most of them will never come to the surface, at least not for normal players. In version 1.0.2 most of it is fixed and the release is almost bug free. (Which company can say that from their releases...)

The easy mode upgrade was done because of the feedback of the players. Surprisingly for me many players had issues with the difficulty of the game and so they put in some effort changing levels to make them more accessable. This is a good thing and they even provided it for free. General speaking its not really changing the game, but on the other hand for players having difficulties finishing the game it is a crucial patch.

Personally I was hoping that they release the patch earlier for the other versions as well, but I still can understand why they haven't done it.
Lets put it on a rough time line
- The Steam release of the patch was somewhen in July ?
- After that the Kickstarter for Ravensdale startet
- then they were polishing and betatesting the DLC/ADDON,
- so now they can or should focus on releasing patches for all versions. Anyhow they are preparing the release on PSN Japan for end of October as well.

I can't see that those guys are only looking for money and not treating their community well. My personal experience is the complete difference. Yes some things take time (as some of the rewards of the kickstarter campaign and the patch) But at the end they always delivered and that is what counts....

You guys should have a look on their Twitch channel or Youtube channel

www.youtube.com/user/blackforestgamesteam/
www.twtich.tv/blackforestgames

They are producing a regular live show where they present news of the company, sneak peeks, interviews and so on.

Also have a look at their forums www.gianasisterstwisteddreams.com. They also have some troubleshooting about technical issues there.
Post edited October 05, 2013 by DRMfreeyeah
Posted October 05, 2013
I wonder if the new tracks will be available to buy or download as a gift.
Posted October 07, 2013
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Piranjade: ~snip

Does that crash happen in Überhardcore?
Nope. In the base "Adventure" mode.
Posted October 08, 2013
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coldalarm: Basically I don't really have any faith in these guys. They don't seem to have a clue what they're doing.
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ReynardFox: The fact they launched the Wii U version with no sound on the gamepad in off-tv mode pretty much confirms these guys are bad at their job.

Wishlisted this until they deliver the promised patch for the main title.
Bugs and glitches is pretty regular for games you know.
Even for AAA games.

Also there are a couple of games out there where devs have forgotten to put something in or games where devs have forgotten to take something out.

Another example not related to games
Sometimes doctors forgets clamps or other stuff in the patients they operate.
do that means they are bad at their job?
I find it strange that they have managed to pass the education and even stranger that they managed to work several years before this mistake happens if we shoud go after your logic sense.
Post edited October 08, 2013 by Lodium
Posted October 11, 2013
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Lodium: Bugs and glitches is pretty regular for games you know.
Even for AAA games.

Also there are a couple of games out there where devs have forgotten to put something in or games where devs have forgotten to take something out.

Another example not related to games
Sometimes doctors forgets clamps or other stuff in the patients they operate.
do that means they are bad at their job?
I find it strange that they have managed to pass the education and even stranger that they managed to work several years before this mistake happens if we shoud go after your logic sense.
Bugs and glitches are pretty common, yes. We accept them because we know it's impossible to stamp them out.

The sound not working in a supported mode on a platform with a singular (or at least *very limited*) set of hardware is, without a doubt, a major issue that should not have happened at launch. What would also be (more) telling is how long it took them to fix it. Has it been fixed? Will it be fixed? These questions can say just as much about a developer as the release.

Mistakes happen, problems can be hard to fix, yeah, but that doesn't somehow absolve the developer. Especially when you're self-published like the Giana Sisters devs , it is *your* responsibility to test *your* product thoroughly. You don't have to have a huge QA team, you don't necessarily need to outsource your testing, but you do need to make sure it's tested. If you release a buggy product, it is your fault and nobody else's.

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Penquin: This wasn't even the first patch since the Steam release, but this time they decided to ignore releasing the patch for DRM-free copies.
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Psyringe: The didn't "ignore" DRM-free copies. They released a patch for Steam (biggest userbase) in July, then focused on the Wii U release (because that needed all the energy they could muster), and delayed the patch for the non-Steam versions until that was out of the way. Which makes sense, since the current DRM-free release is fully functional without it.
Except they never communicated *any* of that, and instead told us the patch would be out in a month. And it never surfaced. And, really, if you're struggling financially (or in terms of staffing levels) as it seems these guys are, what you don't do is spread yourself thin. You focus on the products you can get out quickly, with the least issue, and with the most noise. When the Steam patch hit, they had a daily deal linked to it. The little box on the store page said 'Now Updated' and so on. That equals money. Why didn't they double-down and focus on doing that for GOG, GamersGate and so on? Any money is good money in a time of strife. To struggle and to then focus on a product that likely won't succeed is just suicidal business practice. In a tiny minority of cases it will work. In most it won't.

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Psyringe: They never said they didn't care about the DRM-free releases or wouldn't provide a patch for them. They simply stated that they have limited resources and therefore had to focus on the Wii release for a while, and will provide the patch now that this is out of the way. One might think that people in a community like GOG would understand that.
Again, where was that communicated? And yes, we understand things get in the way of patches, but the patch had already been done, so it wasn't like they were going to spend a month having to redo all of these fixes and so on. All they had to do was create a version for DRM-free copies. This is not some great Herculean challenge for a developer, and there is no reason why it should take a month.

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Psyringe: The madness becomes obvious when you realize that this patch 1.1.1 only provides additions (like an "Easy" mode) that weren't even planned or announced when people bought the game. The game can be played perfectly without it. The patch is basically a sign of the developer's dedication to keep improving the game even after the bugs were fixed. And instead of recognizing that we have a developer here who keeps polishing his product even though it works very well already, people are butthurt that someone else got those perks 3 months earlier than they will get it. Seriously, I understand that people want the latest perks for their game, but I don't understand the drama. It's not as if we wouldn't get that coveted "Easy" mode at all.
'Only'? Do people not read patch notes these days? Patch notes here. Bug fixes, additional content, new languages, improved performance, new menus. It was not just an "easy mode", it was a patch with fixes which would make the game playable (or run better) for those with issues.

We're not "butthurt", we're irritated that there has been no(!) communication on this site from the devs over this. No "sorry guys, this is gonna be a little longer because other stuff". Nothing. The devs have had complete radio silence on this site, and that is not acceptable when we're talking about delays and so on. They can't manage to build a patch for us, but they still found the time to package the expansion pack for GOG and GamersGate? What about the lack of a pre-order campaign for either of them, as they did on Steam?

What's happening is BFG (somewhat rightly) have a love for Steam. It clearly is their majority market. But you don't get to play favourites. You don't get to treat your customers differently based on their platform. Everyone should be treated equally. That means everyone should get the same bug fixes, same new content, same level of support. There have been a couple of topics in the Giana Sisters subforum about this lack of equal treatment *and not once has a BFG dev replied*. Not once have they taken two minutes out of their day to explain the situation, to tell us what's going on.

And it's not just about this patch, Psyringe. It's about this dev's behaviour. You don't need to look hard - even on GOG - to see that these guys do not have a clue. They completely fluffed their Giana Sisters Kickstarter and the way it was handled after it finished. Even those guys aren't getting the same level of support as the Steam buyers. Fancy that. You put money into backing a game and you get worse service than someone who bought the game for £3 in a daily deal. How is that right? No, they're not kicking puppies or anything, but they clearly don't have either the skill nor the staff to do much, and instead they're trying to do a hundred things at once.
Post edited October 11, 2013 by coldalarm
Posted October 11, 2013
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coldalarm: snip
I agree that communication isn't one of BFG's strengths. But if I read Judas' post correctly, there was a patch for the GOG version that wasn't accepted, because it caused some problems. And instead of fixing that patch, BFG promised a new and final patch that should be out this month.

Hope that us backers will get this patch as well then.
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Community
General discussion (archive)Release: Giana Sisters: Rise of the Owlverlord(80 posts)(80 posts)
(80 posts)