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MaskedCreep: Which is why I'm annoyed at masses who don't realize that good graphics =/= great aesthetics. Too many games have fallen into trap of having high graphics, but bland forgettable aesthetics.

Though really that reply didn't work for what he said, it just means that strategy games aren't mainstream at the moment.

@Carnival: I wouldn't say Xenonauts is done too often considering that you can count with your fingers all XCOM clones :p Just check from wikipedia.
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spinefarm: And everybody is for the money mate... The target group of XCom series is not that big even at GOG so yes...25$ is too much.
Hmm, I wouldn't say everybody is for the money as "everybody" is too broad statement considering that there do exist game developers who do it "for the art", but if your statement is "it would sell better if it was cheaper" then I can see your point.

But yeah, Xenonauts is niche game and devs know that. Its created as remake of sort for XCOM fans so I doubt devs are too worried about reaching wide audience. I mean, if they are in it for business, then doing niche game isn't good idea in first place.
Post edited May 17, 2012 by MaskedCreep
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spinefarm: Yet the mases want graphics...
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MaskedCreep: Which is why I'm annoyed at masses who don't realize that good graphics =/= great aesthetics. Too many games have fallen into trap of having high graphics, but bland forgettable aesthetics.
In interest of X-Com I'd really take a peek here at UFO Afterlight.

As for aesthetics I think a lot of people are terribly pressed for coming up characters or environment that are not only original but also catch the eye.

I've drawn for years and years and each time I come up with something that catch's the eye, I only have to stand back for a moment to notice that I've just recreated some other artist's work, accidentally, from sub-conscious memory.

You will notice that those developers who can muster orginal character ideas can also muster fresh new game designs and that is pretty much what has stapled Nintendo and Sega as the forerunners for the longest time because they've enlisted creative geniuses who are capable of generating extremely original ideas.
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spinefarm: And everybody is for the money mate... The target group of XCom series is not that big even at GOG so yes...25$ is too much.
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MaskedCreep: Hmm, I wouldn't say everybody is for the money as "everybody" is too broad statement considering that there do exist game developers who do it "for the art", but if your statement is "25 is too much for it considering that it wouldn't be good business for gog/gog users don't have that much of interest for it" then I can see your point.

But yeah, Xenonauts is niche game and devs know that. Its created as remake of sort for XCOM fans so I doubt devs are too worried about reaching wide audience. I mean, if they are in it for business, then doing niche game isn't good idea in first place.
Nobody do it for the art this days. Money rule the world ;)

Grimrock is the perfect example how can you sell game right. 15$ is not that much and with price like that you can target people besides the fans of the genre.

For me the explanation of GOG response is: "Yes you made a good game,but the audience of XCom is not that wide,so 25$ are too much.Consider a 15$ target and we can make a deal."

If they are not in it for the money...they will not use the XCom reference in the first place ;)
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carnival73: You will notice that those developers who can muster orginal character ideas can also muster fresh new game designs and that is pretty much what has stapled Nintendo and Sega as the forerunners for the longest time because they've enlisted creative geniuses who are capable of generating extremely original ideas.
You forget Konami ...they have great design artists too. The matter is too big to discuss.
Post edited May 17, 2012 by spinefarm
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MaskedCreep: Hmm, I wouldn't say everybody is for the money as "everybody" is too broad statement considering that there do exist game developers who do it "for the art", but if your statement is "25 is too much for it considering that it wouldn't be good business for gog/gog users don't have that much of interest for it" then I can see your point.

But yeah, Xenonauts is niche game and devs know that. Its created as remake of sort for XCOM fans so I doubt devs are too worried about reaching wide audience. I mean, if they are in it for business, then doing niche game isn't good idea in first place.
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spinefarm: Nobody do it for the art this days. Money rule the world ;)

Grimrock is the perfect example how can you sell game right. 15$ is not that much and with price like that you can target people besides the fans of the genre.

For me the explanation of GOG response is: "Yes you made a good game,but the audience of XCom is not that wide,so 25$ are too much.Consider a 15$ target and we can make a deal."

If they are not in it for the money...they will not use the XCom reference in the first place ;)
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carnival73: You will notice that those developers who can muster orginal character ideas can also muster fresh new game designs and that is pretty much what has stapled Nintendo and Sega as the forerunners for the longest time because they've enlisted creative geniuses who are capable of generating extremely original ideas.
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spinefarm: You forget Konami ...they have great design artists too. The matter is too big to discuss.
Capcom and Namco as well.
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carnival73: Capcom and Namco as well.
And all of them don't like PC at all :D
I think you are now teasing me, but I'll bite.

Again, that is too broad statement to be objectively true. Even if you truly believe what you just said, crazy artist people always exist.

And I'm pretty sure they used XCOM as inspiration because they are XCOM fans :P Because like I said, its too hard to do type of game to do for a niche game.
Post edited May 17, 2012 by MaskedCreep
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JudasIscariot: One thing I know for sure:

2d sprites age a LOT better than 3d....
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StingingVelvet: Eh... that is true for PS1 and N64, but I think Xbox-level and up graphics will age quite nicely. I don't ever see a time where Splinter Cell: Chaos Theory is too ugly for me to play.

Whereas 2D always looks like art, but at the same time might not always offer the best gameplay. As much as I love Fallout 2 it feels limited now that we have real 3D worlds to explore.
Perhaps JudasIscariot is referring to the early days of 3d. I still remember the horror I felt at the results of the transition of King Quest and Simon The Sorcerer series to 3d (in the latter the creators could not even find financial support to launch it in 2D, as they intended).

This transition almost killed the genre of classic graphic adventure as such (although with notable exceptions such as Grim Fandango), which fortunately is now living a renaissance (mostly thanks to indie developers). In other genres, however, as the shooters, the move to 3D was essential. Today I think that coexistence between sprites / 3D-based games allows us to have the best of both worlds.
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MaskedCreep: I think you are now teasing me, but I'll bite.

Again, that is too broad statement to be objectively true. Even if you truly believe what you just said, crazy artist people always exist.

And I'm pretty sure they used XCOM as inspiration because they are XCOM fans :P Because like I said, its too hard to do type of game to do for a niche game.
You are right and wrong... They can use it for inspiration and to make money from the XCOM reference :)

Old gamers are hungry for classic games that is the truth.. Personally I'm anoyed with stuff like MW3,BF3 and Skyrim(Yeah I don't like Skyrim),but my point is that a lot of devs sudenly noticed the sucess of Double Fine Kickstarter and started to overusing this hunger ;)
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MaskedCreep: I think you are now teasing me, but I'll bite.

Again, that is too broad statement to be objectively true. Even if you truly believe what you just said, crazy artist people always exist.

And I'm pretty sure they used XCOM as inspiration because they are XCOM fans :P Because like I said, its too hard to do type of game to do for a niche game.
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spinefarm: You are right and wrong... They can use it for inspiration and to make money from the XCOM reference :)

Old gamers are hungry for classic games that is the truth.. Personally I'm anoyed with stuff like MW3,BF3 and Skyrim(Yeah I don't like Skyrim),but my point is that a lot of devs sudenly noticed the sucess of Double Fine Kickstarter and started to overusing this hunger ;)
Yeah, I'm annoyed at Bethesday too, mainly because I'm fanboy of first two Fallouts and Bethesda made Fallout 3 :P

But yeah, most of old developers in Kickstarter seem to be doing it for sake of being able to do projects they would be unable to do with publishers. Because let's face it, games in Kickstarter aren't done by publishers because publishers would lose money because they wouldn't sell well enough.
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MaskedCreep: Because let's face it, games in Kickstarter aren't done by publishers because publishers would lose money because they wouldn't sell well enough.
Correction: they would not necessarily lose money, but not make enough money on top to make the investment worth their while. There are many other, less risky ways to invest $500,000 and make it grow by a comfortable percentage.
Haha, rage topic.
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MaskedCreep: Because let's face it, games in Kickstarter aren't done by publishers because publishers would lose money because they wouldn't sell well enough.
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bazilisek: Correction: they would not necessarily lose money, but not make enough money on top to make the investment worth their while. There are many other, less risky ways to invest $500,000 and make it grow by a comfortable percentage.
Yeah, true. Though they would lose money if they would actually give developer money they wanted without making restrictions xD

@fortune_p_dawg: Yeah, I'm still sorry and embarrassed for that. Pity that I can't change thread title =/
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bazilisek: Correction: they would not necessarily lose money, but not make enough money on top to make the investment worth their while. There are many other, less risky ways to invest $500,000 and make it grow by a comfortable percentage.
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MaskedCreep: Yeah, true. Though they would lose money if they would actually give developer money they wanted without making restrictions xD

@fortune_p_dawg: Yeah, I'm still sorry and embarrassed for that. Pity that I can't change thread title =/
Ah well... it happens. I do love me some sprites though.

;)