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Nirth: The problem with this line of thinking is that it goes like this "because it should be, it ought to be" or something like that. While the hypothesis that aliens might exist has the argument that it's less likely that we are the only intelligent life out there because of the size of the universe it's still possible that we are alone.

And no, we do not know we are not alone, it's probable that we aren't but we don't know. ;)
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keeveek: I am not a physicist, but I know a few of them, and they always told me "if the possibility is bigger than zero, it happens right now somewhere in the universe.

And if the universe is infinite, then you may be 100% certain that there is a life somewhere outside solar system. :)
I didn't think of it like that. That does make sense.
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Nirth: The problem with this line of thinking is that it goes like this "because it should be, it ought to be" or something like that. While the hypothesis that aliens might exist has the argument that it's less likely that we are the only intelligent life out there because of the size of the universe it's still possible that we are alone.

And no, we do not know we are not alone, it's probable that we aren't but we don't know. ;)
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keeveek: I am not a physicist, but I know a few of them, and they always told me "if the possibility is bigger than zero, it happens right now somewhere in the universe.

And if the universe is infinite, then you may be 100% certain that there is a life somewhere outside solar system. :)
I happen to agree with you. But they (the scientists) don't believe that the universe is infinite anymore. (And yep, I've noticed your IF, so don't worry =) ) Some are trying to prove this by explaining why all the matter in our universe is accelerating instead of slowing down. There should be something in the "edge" of the universe pulling matter faster than our own gravity here can contain it. Until recently, they thought all matter in our universe were slowly decelerating (due to gravity) now they know it's the opposite and they can't explain it if the universe is infinite, so, they changed the rules. Some of them think this is due to another (perhaps bigger) universe besides our own.

I recommend anyone interested in this to research the topic: String Theory.
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KneeTheCap: Well, I believe in "ghosts" and paranormal. Why? Because I have my own experiences. I'm not expecting you to believe me, you are free to draw your own conclusions. You can also try to explain these to me.

1. The night after my uncle died, I suddenly woke up and saw a bright white floating orb right in front of me, it then let out a sound and descended through the floor. It was bright but it did not illuminate the room. Hallucination? Perhaps. But do explain to me why my wife saw the same thing the night after my father died? These happened two years apart from each others. I did not tell my wife what I saw back then, but I was totally startled when she told me her experience. White glowing orb that did not illuminate the room. Coincidences? Perhaps.

2. After my uncle died, we went to his flat (which is located about 30 meters from our house) and cleared the fridge from food and cleaned the place up. We left the fridge door wide open, unplugged. The next day we went back to finish the cleaning, the fridge door was shut. No, it does not close up by itself, as the fridge is slightly tilted, so the door would move away from the fridge. Nor does the "breeze" close it when we close the main door with haste. We tested it, didn't do anything.

3. We all went to my father's funeral, and when we got back, my other uncle (who lives next door, some 100 meters from us) noticed that his makeshift fence's door was... upside down. No one was home. I didn't see this myself, but I have no reason not to believe him.

4. My aunt told me that after her father died, she and her sister heard his voice the following night, with footsteps and a door opening. She claims that he had said "and there they live" in Finnish. She went to check, and saw no-one.

You can choose to believe me or not, but I stand by my words. I have no reason to lie to you.
Pretty creepy stuff.
I don't have any reason to doubt you, nor have the passionate desire most people have to either curse you or believing all of this is real. That being said, while I'm skeptical about this kind of thing, I cannot explain some events in my own life as well. I don't think we (humans as a whole) will ever be qualified to answer all this questions. My guess is this planet is going down (one way or the other) long before we achieve this knowledgde.

So while I don't doubt for a second you (and those you know) really saw/heard something, I'll always try to find another explanation first before blaming the supernatural for it =)
Post edited February 08, 2013 by FAButzke
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FAButzke: I happen to agree with you. But they (the scientists) don't believe that the universe is infinite anymore. (And yep, I've noticed your IF, so don't worry =) ) Some are trying to prove this by explaining why all the matter in our universe is accelerating instead of slowing down. There should be something in the "edge" of the universe pulling matter faster than our own gravity here can contain it. Until recently, they thought all matter in our universe were slowly decelerating (due to gravity) now they know it's the opposite and they can't explain it if the universe is infinite, so, they changed the rules. Some of them think this is due to another (perhaps bigger) universe besides our own
Ha, trying to imagine how huge the universe (or multiverse!) can be, think that atoms look like small universes. Spaces between "particles" in atoms are so huge like distances between stars (or even greater?) in the scale. Everything that exists has more "empty spaces" than actual matter.

So there is a theory that our universe is just another atom :D It's more filosophical than anything, but you can imagine the scale - if there is another universe just like ours, or bigger and greater, and there are more of them, that create something even bigger... You may imagine how huge are actual chances there is much more life out there :-)
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keeveek: Ha, trying to imagine how huge the universe (or multiverse!) can be, think that atoms look like small universes. Spaces between "particles" in atoms are so huge like distances between stars (or even greater?) in the scale. Everything that exists has more "empty spaces" than actual matter.

So there is a theory that our universe is just another atom :D It's more filosophical than anything, but you can imagine the scale - if there is another universe just like ours, or bigger and greater, and there are more of them, that create something even bigger... You may imagine how huge are actual chances there is much more life out there :-)
Exactly what I thought. =D
I'm always amazed by how similar things function. Atoms -> Solar Systems -> Galaxies -> And now... Universes???
If they are right, the possibilities are endless.
Also, as I've stated before in the topic, if those guys researching that microbe that uses arsenic instead of phosphor in its cells are right, can you imagine what kind of life we could encounter if we could travel to other planets? Even if those planets do not have the same kind of chemical composition as our own? It's mindblowing. =)
Post edited February 08, 2013 by FAButzke
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FAButzke: can you imagine what kind of life we could encounter if we could travel to other planets? Even if those planets do not have the same kind of chemical composition as our own? It's mindblowing. =)
Yeah, we could even mistake it for somethins else. The life we know is based on Carbon, but it doesn't mean all life must be based on Carbon. The problem is, if we ever encountered a life form so different than ours, we couldn't probably communicate too well...
"paranormal" as in ghosts? no

"aliens" as in life on other planet? yes
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FAButzke: can you imagine what kind of life we could encounter if we could travel to other planets? Even if those planets do not have the same kind of chemical composition as our own? It's mindblowing. =)
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keeveek: Yeah, we could even mistake it for somethins else. The life we know is based on Carbon, but it doesn't mean all life must be based on Carbon. The problem is, if we ever encountered a life form so different than ours, we couldn't probably communicate too well...
I know what you mean. Some scientists think we could comunicate through wave lengths to represent math as math is universal and if the alien life we encountered is sapient, they're bound to know math and recongnise some sort of wave length. I think the video I've posted earlier covers this, I don't remember if it does (and I can't confirm it now as I'm at work). :(
Don't forget that we actually all are aliens. After all our forefathers arrived on Ark B from Golgafrincham!
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Michagogi23: "paranormal" as in ghosts? no
You see, it depends how you perceive things.

For example, if you would see an alien form that would be way more technologically advantaced than we, with a way bigger technological gap than between white men and indians in the age of discovery, if they could go through walls, teleport, fly or whatever, you could perceive them as ghosts, or even angels or gods :P

Think of that. If they are more technologically advanced (because they could travel to Earth), it means they are capable of observing us in a way we couldn't understand or even see (nanobots, for example).

Maybe things people perceive as ghosts are just alien tourists!

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FAButzke: I know what you mean. Some scientists think we could comunicate through wave lengths to represent math as math is universal and if the alien life we encountered is sapient, they're bound to know math and recongnise some sort of wave length. I think the video I've posted earlier covers this, I don't remember if it does (and I can't confirm it now as I'm at work). :(
I missed your link, I am going to watch it right now. ;)
Post edited February 08, 2013 by keeveek
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Lifthrasil: Don't forget that we actually all are aliens. After all our forefathers arrived on Ark B from Golgafrincham!
You are not so far from the truth. There are theories that we could have come from mars during the time when earth was red hot and mars was cool enough to have life (not sapient life). Meteor impacts on mars could have thorn parts of mars which, in turn, collided with early earth. That would explain why life suddenly started here when it's *shouldn't* have at that time.

So, yeah, we could be martians =)
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Zeewolf: OBAMA IS A REPTILIAN!!
A bit late. But the correct term is 'Silurian'!
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FAButzke: That would explain why life suddenly started here when it's *shouldn't* have at that time.
What do you mean by "shouldn't"? As I recall, scientists have managed to create aminoacids like the ones life has in laboratory conditions mimicking a very young earth. So what is the "shouldn't" part about?

Edit: link
Post edited February 08, 2013 by JMich
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keeveek: Maybe things people perceive as ghosts are just alien tourists!
/stoner voice enabled

whoaaa dude, you just blew my mind ! ;)
I just have to post this.
Everyone from Utah can address your letters to "Upper Penn of Michigan: Attn tinyE"
Attachments:
proof.jpg (49 Kb)
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Zeewolf: OBAMA IS A REPTILIAN!!
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Lifthrasil: A bit late. But the correct term is 'Silurian'!
That's what they WANT YOU TO THINK, man!