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anjohl: 1) Smugness/snodiness. Nothing else to say here really. Is rand "classic"? How about Ron Hubbard?

2) If a game consists of rapid unrealistic strafing and shooting, every other creature is hostile, and you are in a series of corridors, yes, it is a Doomlike.
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jefequeso: 1) Yes, Ayn Rand is considered to be a classic author. That's really not up for debate :P

2) So you're saying that 99% of FPSs are in fact "Doomlikes?" I question the purpose of having such a label, then.
1) Please show me some citations that would indicate that Rand is more of a classic author than Ron Hubbard.
2) Only if those 99% all feature uniformly hostile enemies, and gameplay consisting primarily of moving through corridors killing them via strafing and shooting, and a non-character in the lead role.
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jefequeso: 1) Yes, Ayn Rand is considered to be a classic author. That's really not up for debate :P

2) So you're saying that 99% of FPSs are in fact "Doomlikes?" I question the purpose of having such a label, then.
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anjohl: 1) Please show me some citations that would indicate that Rand is more of a classic author than Ron Hubbard.
2) Only if those 99% all feature uniformly hostile enemies, and gameplay consisting primarily of moving through corridors killing them via strafing and shooting, and a non-character in the lead role.
I have no idea why you're bringing another author into this. I never claimed that Ayn Rand is "more of a classic author" than anyone, I merely said that her books are considered to be modern classics, and that anyone acquainted with modern classics will be familiar with her works... or at the very least know of their existence and importance. I'm not going to waste time trying to prove it, because that would be like trying to prove that Truman Capote or Sherwood Anderson are classic authors.
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jefequeso: I have no idea why you're bringing another author into this. I never claimed that Ayn Rand is "more of a classic author" than anyone, I merely said that her books are considered to be modern classics, and that anyone acquainted with modern classics will be familiar with her works... or at the very least know of their existence and importance. I'm not going to waste time trying to prove it, because that would be like trying to prove that Truman Capote or Sherwood Anderson are classic authors.
I find your delusional smugness devilishly delightful, please go on.
Don't ever change, anjohl.

Jesus, I thought everybody got over the whole "Doomlike" nonsense before Quake even came out. I guess I'll have to look forward to you being the one guy calling "Minecraft clone" in 2030. Doomlike was a derogatory term back in the day, when idiots labeled anybody who attempted to make a first-person shooter in the months following Doom's massive popularity as an unoriginal hack. Nothing is 100% original, and gaming would suck if developers didn't borrow ideas here or there. Imagine Doom being the last first-person shooter, or if today's id Software was the only one putting out first-person shooters today. If you ran the industry, it'd have been dead ages ago.
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jefequeso: I have no idea why you're bringing another author into this. I never claimed that Ayn Rand is "more of a classic author" than anyone, I merely said that her books are considered to be modern classics, and that anyone acquainted with modern classics will be familiar with her works... or at the very least know of their existence and importance. I'm not going to waste time trying to prove it, because that would be like trying to prove that Truman Capote or Sherwood Anderson are classic authors.
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anjohl: I find your delusional smugness devilishly delightful, please go on.
-__-
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jefequeso: 1) Yes, Ayn Rand is considered to be a classic author. That's really not up for debate :P
Lol, Southpark always has those re-watchable clips, especially the older episodes:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_j56IiLqZ9U
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anjohl: 1) Please show me some citations that would indicate that Rand is more of a classic author than Ron Hubbard.
it's usually a good idea NOT to comment on issues one doesn't know anything about. jefequeso is right. Rand is accepted reading material for university-level finals. Hubbard might be, but i've never encountered his name in an academic context.
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anjohl: I think you spend too much time on wikipedia.
No Wikipedia, sorry.
None of those similarities would come across to someone who was not either a Rand fanatic, or who exhaustively searches out explanations to every game they play.
If you want a game to deal with serious philosophical issues (which is where the whole discussion started), you might want to consider to actually read some philosophy first. Otherwise the whole thing pretty much flies over your head...which, guess what, is exactely what happened.

Even if you don't catch every single reference (I'm sure I missed tons of them), Bioshock is one of those games that encourages you to actually pick up relevant literature and read up on themes it presented. Which is a good thing, even though you might *gasp* accidentally learn something...
I am reminded of a young second year sociology student who told me he was writing a paper examining the film Alien from the "feminist perspective", specifically looking at it as a "critique of male sexuality". I just about hurled. Sometimes, a cigar is just a cigar, and a generic Doomlike by an overachieving, pretentious designer is just a Doomlike.
Ahem. It is a well known fact that from the getgo the Xenomorph was designed as a nightmare version of male sexuality.

Direct quote from Dan O'Bannon, screenwriter of Alien:

"One thing that people are all disturbed about is sex... I said 'That's how I'm going to attack the audience; I'm going to attack them sexually. And I'm not going to go after the women in the audience, I'm going to attack the men. I am going to put in every image I can think of to make the men in the audience cross their legs. Homosexual oral rape, birth. The thing lays its eggs down your throat, the whole number.

Sometimes a cigar ist just a cigar. And sometimes not knowing what the hell you're talking about is just not knowing what the hell you're talking about (also just about hurling).
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Randalator: Ahem. It is a well known fact that from the getgo the Xenomorph was designed as a nightmare version of male sexuality.

Direct quote from Dan O'Bannon, screenwriter of Alien:

"One thing that people are all disturbed about is sex... I said 'That's how I'm going to attack the audience; I'm going to attack them sexually. And I'm not going to go after the women in the audience, I'm going to attack the men. I am going to put in every image I can think of to make the men in the audience cross their legs. Homosexual oral rape, birth. The thing lays its eggs down your throat, the whole number.
Huh. I didn't actually know this.
Trespasser...

I can't even remember anything about it except how terrible and clunky the controls were... I just remember swinging my damn arm all over the place, and something about the main character looking down at her boobs...
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Randalator: Ahem. It is a well known fact that from the getgo the Xenomorph was designed as a nightmare version of male sexuality.

Direct quote from Dan O'Bannon, screenwriter of Alien:

"One thing that people are all disturbed about is sex... I said 'That's how I'm going to attack the audience; I'm going to attack them sexually. And I'm not going to go after the women in the audience, I'm going to attack the men. I am going to put in every image I can think of to make the men in the audience cross their legs. Homosexual oral rape, birth. The thing lays its eggs down your throat, the whole number.
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jefequeso: Huh. I didn't actually know this.
Aye, there's some pretty nasty freudian stuff going on with the alien series. The that they were also designed by H.R Giger, who's known to include sexual imagery in his works, helps matters.
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EmilJ1_74: Descent to Undermountain. I actually knew it was going to be terrible but I picked it up for a trifle in a bargain just to see if it was really that bad. It was.
Nice when one's expectations aren't disappointed.

This thread is similar to This One. The linked thread is about worst games you own, though I imagine there's a lot of overlap. My own picks are there.

Assuming we're sticking to computer games, not console, and not time-wasting-at-work javascript browser games and the like (e.g. something you actually paid for or borrowed someone's copy at one time), I'll probably go with Dungeon Lords. It was just the antithesis of what a fully fleshed-out, absorbing, balanced and bug-tested role-playing game should be. It's the Big Rigs of fantasy RPGs, without the possibility of enjoying "ironically".
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anjohl: 1) Please show me some citations that would indicate that Rand is more of a classic author than Ron Hubbard.
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Fred_DM: it's usually a good idea NOT to comment on issues one doesn't know anything about. jefequeso is right. Rand is accepted reading material for university-level finals. Hubbard might be, but i've never encountered his name in an academic context.
This proves nothing more than Rand is popular with liberal college English Professors - not that she is a classic author at all.
Post edited January 10, 2013 by Lou
OK back on the C64 I owned a game called 'Super Trolly' that was actually created after a kid sent his design in to Jim'll Fix It with the wish that it be made
look:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Super_Trolley
There's uncle Jimmy on the cover!
And it's not just horrifying in retrospect (not sure how much the rest of the world heard about this but Jimmy Saville - yeah, huge Paedo!) it was actually a dreadful game where your character worked in a supermarket and stacked shelves you were given 'tasks' like stack carrots or stack bean and stack some other thing and that was IT! It was crappy Trolly Wally job simulator! I mean if you work doing that in a supermarket you probably hate your life and this is meant to be a fun game!
The worst part was that the instructions said that sometimes the customers dogs pee on the shopfloor and you are then tasked with mopping it up, and I spent ages playing until this happened just to see what it was like and to break up the monotony but... Well.. It never did happen I think it probably wasn't implemented in the C64 version (I guess the Speccy was the original and the C64 the port?)
How much of my precious youth did I waste waiting for the peeing dog who never turned up?
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Lou: This proves nothing more than Rand is popular with liberal college English Professors - not that she is a classic author at all.
Doesn't matter. The point wasn't whether she deserves it or not, the point is that her work is considered to be modern classic literature and most people who have studied modern classical literature would be acquainted with her and her philosophies... or at least know that they exist.