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General discussionWasteland 2 to be buggy and have half it's story missing.(83 posts)(83 posts)
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This is my favourite topic
Posted March 30, 2012
I'm terribly excited about this. Obsidian, on a general design level, is an outstanding company. As far as pure role-playing experience go, Alpha Protocol, KOTOR2, and NWN2 are among the strongest contenders out there; gameplay experience is a different matter, and while it should never be ignored when a game suffers in this department, at least I am still able to divulge fully in the RPG aspect and enjoy engrossing and unparalleled story-telling and characterisation of the highest quality. If Obsidian and MCA are allowed to poke about a bit in Wasteland 2, I can only take that as a very good thing.
Post edited March 30, 2012 by Kindo
Posted March 30, 2012
low rated
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Post edited March 30, 2012 by Tormentfan
Posted March 30, 2012
The problem with Obsidian is that they aren't a developer, they are scabs. They come in and use an existing engine to make a sequel by the numbers, typically in cases involving a publisher wanting to squeeze more out of a game developped by a departing developer.
Post edited March 31, 2012 by anjohl
Posted March 30, 2012
Obsidian has the capacity to be good when they don't have a publisher breathing down their necks. So this Kickstarter thing might be good for them. However, they don't really care about QA that much, anyway. They have a long history of skimping on QA first any time they run out of time or money, and of not releasing patches (or enough patches) after release even if the game was a success. This has happened for almost every release Obsidian and Troika have done, so the odds of it being ENTIRELY someone else's fault EVERY time are pretty slim. If they managed to put together a good QA cycle, though, they'd make the best games of all time. Several of the games they've made already have been personal favorites even if they are buggy as all hell and not-quite-done.

Hopefully this will give them an opportunity to fully redeem themselves in my eyes, but I'm not going to be holding my breath.
Posted March 30, 2012
Gosh I hope the game doesn't have that "2D but looks 3D" look, like say Commandos 2 did over Commandos 1 (just as an example), I hope it's pre-rendered in all it's glory, with sharp drawn environments.

Also, the camera better be stationary top-down with no movement except when you go to a different area of the game. No NWN crap.
Posted March 30, 2012
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bevinator: Obsidian has the capacity to be good when they don't have a publisher breathing down their necks. So this Kickstarter thing might be good for them. However, they don't really care about QA that much, anyway. They have a long history of skimping on QA first any time they run out of time or money, and of not releasing patches (or enough patches) after release even if the game was a success. This has happened for almost every release Obsidian and Troika have done, so the odds of it being ENTIRELY someone else's fault EVERY time are pretty slim. If they managed to put together a good QA cycle, though, they'd make the best games of all time. Several of the games they've made already have been personal favorites even if they are buggy as all hell and not-quite-done.

Hopefully this will give them an opportunity to fully redeem themselves in my eyes, but I'm not going to be holding my breath.
I used to think that the problem might be on the publisher side. However, after I saw Alpha Protocol, I actually believe that Obsidient really need a strong publisher to push them a bit. At least KOTOR2, NWN2 and FO:NV are all games with quite decent quality.
Posted March 30, 2012
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bevinator: Obsidian has the capacity to be good when they don't have a publisher breathing down their necks. So this Kickstarter thing might be good for them. However, they don't really care about QA that much, anyway. They have a long history of skimping on QA first any time they run out of time or money, and of not releasing patches (or enough patches) after release even if the game was a success. This has happened for almost every release Obsidian and Troika have done, so the odds of it being ENTIRELY someone else's fault EVERY time are pretty slim. If they managed to put together a good QA cycle, though, they'd make the best games of all time. Several of the games they've made already have been personal favorites even if they are buggy as all hell and not-quite-done.

Hopefully this will give them an opportunity to fully redeem themselves in my eyes, but I'm not going to be holding my breath.
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PandaLiang: I used to think that the problem might be on the publisher side. However, after I saw Alpha Protocol, I actually believe that Obsidient really need a strong publisher to push them a bit. At least KOTOR2, NWN2 and FO:NV are all games with quite decent quality.
what didn't you like in AP?
Posted March 30, 2012
I have not read this thread, but I just want to chime in here and say that Obsidian (and especially the companies it came from, Toika and Black Isle) are hands down one of the best companies in the gaming business.

If Wasteland will be released as buggy and unfinished as both Fallouts were at release (the proper Fallouts, 1 and 2), I have no problem with it. This gaming match up is probably the best that has happend in gaming since the DF kickstarter.

I payed 115$ for my big box and I consider this one of the best gambles I did.
Posted March 30, 2012
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anjohl: The problem with Obsidian is that aren't a developer, they are scabs. They come in and use an existing engine to make a sequel by the numbers, typically in cases involving a publisher wanting to squeeze more out of a game developpedby a departing developer.
Aaaand you are completely wrong. As in completely wrong about everything except reusing their engine.
Yes, they used the same engine for KOTOR2. No, it was not at all by the numbers. They explored the star wars framework in a very interesting way (which was then completely ignored because it was COMPLETELY different in tone to every single other thing done with the star wars franchise). It's a shame their dev time got cut short. It is considerably closer to Planescape: Torment thematically than to even the previous title.

NeverWinter Nights 2, could ARGUABLY be said to be by the numbers, but even the original campaign is fairly unique, it does not take itself as seriously as many other games, it is fairly tongue in cheek in how it deals with D&D, which is a pretty good thing. Yes, the original campaign can feel fairly generic, but at the same time it is more or less a pretty light hearted take on the setting. Now, the expansions...
Mask of the Betrayer is ALL but cookie cutter or by the numbers. Once again, much closer to Torment than to any other title, both in theme and in execution. It is a serious title, with great writing. They used an improved version of the NWN engine, unfortunately it is rather poorly optimized, but damn if it doesn't try to explore the setting in pretty interesting ways.
Have not tried the third expansion, but I've read it was their attempt to make something similar to the Gold Box games. I have not tried those either, so I cannot comment on that.

Dungeon Siege 3, have not played. But they made the engine for that inhouse. Never played any of the DS games, though. Can't comment.

Alpha Protocol uses the Unreal Engine, but it does not use a variant used in another game. It is also unique in how it is structured. It is not flawless at all, but it is one of the most satisfying experiences, every single choice matters even if the destination is eventually the same in the end. It is the single most REACTIVE game I've played, and strangely, the most tense segments are the dialogs. God damn, it is a great game.

New Vegas? By the numbers? What?
It does use the F3 variant of bethesda's engine, but saying it is a by-the-numbers sequel is complete bullshit. It IS the proper fallout 3, or the remnants of it. It is by all means a labor of love and a true sequel to fallout 1 and 2, thematically and IN NARRATIVE. Hell, even the gameplay is considerably improved from 3. Better written, way better world building, and it ties in with the previous titles.

So yeah, calling them scabs or "wanting to squeeze more from a departing developer" is the single most wrong thing you could have said about Obsidian. If anything, they try to do things differently, explore different avenues, and focus more on writing and a very, very ambitious plan. Their ambition in their design is also why their titles end up being buggier or less polished.

Edit: Was I trolled and reacted to bait? Dunno.
Post edited March 30, 2012 by Luisfius
Posted March 30, 2012
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anjohl: The problem with Obsidian is that aren't a developer, they are scabs. They come in and use an existing engine to make a sequel by the numbers, typically in cases involving a publisher wanting to squeeze more out of a game developpedby a departing developer.
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Luisfius: New Vegas? By the numbers? What?
It does use the F3 variant of bethesda's engine, but saying it is a by-the-numbers sequel is complete bullshit. It IS the proper fallout 3, or the remnants of it. It is by all means a labor of love and a true sequel to fallout 1 and 2, thematically and IN NARRATIVE. Hell, even the gameplay is considerably improved from 3. Better written, way better world building, and it ties in with the previous titles.
New Vegas is a first-person shooter, anyone who says it's anything close to a real sequel to Fallout 1 and 2 has too much time in modern gaming.
Posted March 30, 2012
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Luisfius: New Vegas? By the numbers? What?
It does use the F3 variant of bethesda's engine, but saying it is a by-the-numbers sequel is complete bullshit. It IS the proper fallout 3, or the remnants of it. It is by all means a labor of love and a true sequel to fallout 1 and 2, thematically and IN NARRATIVE. Hell, even the gameplay is considerably improved from 3. Better written, way better world building, and it ties in with the previous titles.
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Crosmando: New Vegas is a first-person shooter, anyone who says it's anything close to a real sequel to Fallout 1 and 2 has too much time in modern gaming.
Both Fallout 3 and Fallout new Vegas are first person action RPGs. Leveling up, equipment, exploring, both have choices (new vegas probalby has the most choices of any game of an open world 3D game I can think of that has come out)
Post edited March 30, 2012 by marcusmaximus
Posted March 31, 2012
low rated
Writing a new story to overlap a fully exported engine, complete with character models, rendered objects, etc, hardly qualifies as developing a game.

And Obsidian proved me right when they decided to stand on their own two feet...Alpha Protocol. A royal mess. Even there, they tried to use a Bioware-ish engine.

They are scabs. They will come in at the behest of a greedy publisher that would rather outsource to them than pay the developer of the original hit what they deserve.

Obsidian are the equivalent of Asian call centers. Outsourced, barely serviceable labor for pennies on the dollar.

And the fact that you so-called game lovers keep supporting this kind of bullshit is fucking disgraceful.

Gaming is about individual experiences, not franchises. Obsidian gets to exist because people are so fucking branded this generation.

But of course, some of the non-creative individuals from your beloved Black Isle work there now, so they *must* be great, and I must be full of shit. Yeah, that's it.

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NightK: I don't get why Obsidian gets so much hate, sure Alpha Protocol wasn't that big, but it was a fun game in the end. Also I enjoyed many of Obsidian games, NWN2 being my favorite.
Formula:

1) Find publisher who managed to fluke into a mega hit game developed by an up and coming studio that has spread its wings and gone elsewhere.

2) Have publisher send over their proprietary original game code and the full engine.

3) Reuse most previously rendered objects/environments. Fans of the original hit will feel a sense of "Familiarity".

4) Work for less since most of the work has been done by the departed actual developer. Publisher's margin skyrockets as costs are miniscule, MSRP is the same.

5) Branded fans don't have a clue = Profit.
Post edited March 31, 2012 by anjohl
Posted March 31, 2012
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PandaLiang: I used to think that the problem might be on the publisher side. However, after I saw Alpha Protocol, I actually believe that Obsidient really need a strong publisher to push them a bit. At least KOTOR2, NWN2 and FO:NV are all games with quite decent quality.
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lukaszthegreat: what didn't you like in AP?
When it comes to RPG elements, the game is great, but other thing like AI, combat and stealth system are both not good enough imo. Especially the AI problem, those problem could be seen during some previews in Gamespot, then after such a long delay, the problems were still exist in the final product. So it gives an overall unbalanced experience, very interesting to see the story unfold, but not too impressive to actuall play through the combat to unfold it. I think the word I'll use is unpolished. I'm actually fine with unpolished games as long as they are interesting, but the problem is being unpolished after such a long delay. I just cannot give them the excuse like the publisher rushing them.
(I was actually hope it could be a "Mass Effect" type of hit from Obsidien, but it was just too far away from the expectation.)
Post edited March 31, 2012 by PandaLiang
Posted March 31, 2012
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Luisfius: New Vegas? By the numbers? What?
It does use the F3 variant of bethesda's engine, but saying it is a by-the-numbers sequel is complete bullshit. It IS the proper fallout 3, or the remnants of it. It is by all means a labor of love and a true sequel to fallout 1 and 2, thematically and IN NARRATIVE. Hell, even the gameplay is considerably improved from 3. Better written, way better world building, and it ties in with the previous titles.
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Crosmando: New Vegas is a first-person shooter, anyone who says it's anything close to a real sequel to Fallout 1 and 2 has too much time in modern gaming.
Let's see, project lead by the lead developer of the original Black Isle Fallout 3 AND recycling themes and plots from the aborted project, continuing plot lines and building on the setting of the previous ones, world building akin to those of the original two. Yes.
It is not a sequel in gameplay terms, but it is the real fallout 3. It is a first person shooter, yes, but concessions needed to be made in order to provide a product that is not relegated to relatively small niches.
Posted March 31, 2012
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anjohl: snip
Are you just trolling us or do you really believe all that?

Obviously Obsidian's games have been far from perfect. But to imply that they are lazy or unimaginative is ridiculous. Due to funding issues they have frequently used another franchise + engine but they have extended and developed the "content" immensely.

KOTOR2 had and amazing story. The opening sequence in the mine is utterly brilliant. And AP, sure its flawed, but they tried to do something no one else ever had and got a lot of it right.

Obsidian in wasteland 2 will be very beneficial. The only problem with this news is if they can't raise enough money and then we are left wondering what could have been.
Post edited March 31, 2012 by PMIK
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This is my favourite topic
Community
General discussionWasteland 2 to be buggy and have half it's story missing.(83 posts)(83 posts)
(83 posts)
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