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KyleKatarn: Fine, that's reasonable and I would agree that 2 hours of 7 different automatic patches before playing is annoying. I personally wouldn't really care to use Steam for anything other than multi-player but if they got rid of the DRM crap while keeping quality control I might actually try it and like it. That's not what the thread is about though so I'll let it drop.
The DRM aspect is truly unfortunate, I just tend to take the mindset of "if in 20 years Steam closes down and doesn't patch the games people will spread unofficial patches around like candy and no publisher will care."
Back to Topic:

Steam:
1. If i order a game and DLC through Steam everything is fine. If I order from a different reseller i just get a key and everything works out of the box and automatic. If i delete the local files everything can be downloaded with two mouse clicks. I dont need anything from the reseller.
2. Play

Uplay:
Ubisoft must be kidding.
I ordered Assassins Creed 3 Deluxe Edition with the Season Pass from Gamersgate.
1. I must download the game from Gamersgate because it is not possible to register the key to uplay without installing the game. After the first installation i can redownload the base game from Uplay. But Uplay is 2013(!) unable to manage additional content or purchased DLC.
2. I must enter the key (again) ingame to unlock the Deluxe Content and the Season Pass (This is only required one time).
3. I must download and install the Benedict Arnold DLC from Gamersgate.
4. I must download and install the Battle Hardened Multiplayer DLC from Gamersgate.
5. I must download and install the Hidden Secrets DLC from Gamersgate.
6. I must download and install the Tyranny of King Washington Part 1 DLC from Gamersgate.
7. Just in case - make a backup of the additional DLC.
8. Go to sleep...

This is why I love Steam...
Post edited February 23, 2013 by Rincewind81
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StingingVelvet: Because annoying 2 hour installations with 7 patches are a thing of the past due to Steam, for the most part, which is a big reason people love Steam.
I guess I should have started a "This is why people love GOG (and hate Steam)..." thread a couple of days ago, when an automatic Steam client update gone awry made all my Steam games inaccessible for me. But since I considered it an individual incident, I merely mentioned it in the discussion where someone else was venting about a similar incident.

So these clients or games have occasionally hiccups, nothing new under the sun. If many UPlay games start having issues like you described, then I guess there is real reason for concern. Yeah, patches should include also earlier fixes so that installing only the latest patch is enough.


But to even things around a bit, I'll also use this opportunity to complain about a recent and persistent hiccup with EA Origin. Namely, it seemed that whenever I tried to start Crysis 3 MP beta, it would just crash. The only way to make it work would be first to tell Origin to check/fix the Crysis 3 beta installation. It would check the installation for a minute or two and report "no issues found", but only after that the game would start ok. So I had to repeat this every time I wanted to launch the game.

I am unsure if that was some kind of generic problem with Origin or just a Crysis 3 beta issue, but I was a bit surprised they never seemed to fix it in the beta (ok, maybe beta was just one frozen test version that didn't even receive updates... whatever).
Post edited February 23, 2013 by timppu
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timppu: I guess I should have started a "This is why people love GOG (and hate Steam)..." thread a couple of days ago, when an automatic Steam client update gone awry made all my Steam games inaccessible for me. But since I considered it an individual incident, I merely mentioned it in the discussion where someone else was venting about a similar incident.

So these clients or games have occasionally hiccups, nothing new under the sun. If many UPlay games start having issues like you described, then I guess there is real reason for concern. Yeah, patches should include also earlier fixes so that installing only the latest patch is enough.
You wont get through to these people. The same shit was already posted on the first page. But apparently it's different when there is an issue with Steam.
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StingingVelvet: the alternative to Steam is not AAA modern games on GOG, it's this bullshit.
If you want a better alternative; try the Mac App Store. 3rd party DRM is not allowed so the verification process is truly invisible. Also, publishers can choose to release their products DRM-free if they don't even want FairPlay. You don't have to "get kicked in the nuts" by Amazon or Steam.
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StingingVelvet: the alternative to Steam is not AAA modern games on GOG, it's this bullshit.
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Darling_Jimmy: If you want a better alternative; try the Mac App Store. 3rd party DRM is not allowed so the verification process is truly invisible. Also, publishers can choose to release their products DRM-free if they don't even want FairPlay. You don't have to "get kicked in the nuts" by Amazon or Steam.
I just got an iPad 4 the other day (not just to be an end user, but that's beside the point), the eco-system really is easy to use. There's a few usability improvements Apple could probably make but that's beside the point.

As much as people bitch about the App Store being locked down and Apple acting as "gatekeepers" it works well, and that has value, in other words you're getting something of value in return for what you're sacrificing.

Android is a fairly inferior experience in a lot of ways, I've always said Steam is clunky and annoying (slightly better now that it finally allows multiple libraries without OS level trickery, still ugly as fuck and hard to navigate, though).

Now, not all of Apple's stuff is good, iTunes is a mess these days, I'm not sure that anyone uses it out of anything but sheer inertia at this point. The App Store, app management on the iPad, and the OS level features (like cloud saves) are in general amazing and I would go so far as to call it "mother in law proof".
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StingingVelvet: the alternative to Steam is not AAA modern games on GOG, it's this bullshit.
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Darling_Jimmy: If you want a better alternative; try the Mac App Store. 3rd party DRM is not allowed so the verification process is truly invisible. Also, publishers can choose to release their products DRM-free if they don't even want FairPlay. You don't have to "get kicked in the nuts" by Amazon or Steam.
You would really think Valve would be powerful enough by now to ban 3rd part DRM on Steam.
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HiPhish: So, if I understand correctly, people leave their stuff lying around everywhere and then they lose it. I'm afraid I can't really find sympathy for people who don't look after their possesions. Are you treating you other things like that as well? Maybe it's just me, but when I'm done using something I put it back in is place, not just games, this applies to everything. The same goes for the manual, just keep it in the box when you're not playing and everything will be fine. Unless your place is such a mess you can manage to lose an entire DVD case. Or write down you keys on a sheet of paper for all your keys or make a spreadseet document ro something. Or even better, take care of your belongings, then you don't have to do those things. You guys remind me of this picture:
http://images.wildammo.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/why-gabe-newell-invented-steam.jpg
That's OCPD, and no, that's not normal. Also, people who move will lose things as well. Not to mention people with roommates or who live with young children.
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HiPhish: If it's not that important, then why do you care?
you seem to be having a good time bashing the drm systems , good for you some of us would prefer to actually play the games we get without getting age wrinkles about the drm and other crap

its a simple process buy game from anywhere -> install anyway -> play it , wonder where you get all these other thoughts instead of just playing the game ? do you actually play games or just post pictures on your walls saying they are drm free ?
Some people like Steam, some people don't like. Why you people want to convince other side that what they think is wrong? Fanboys! Fanboys everywhere!
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Kristian: Stuff like this is why some of us will choose Steamworks titles over titles using other forms of DRM any day.
Sure .
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HiPhish: Steam is not PC gaming, it's console gaming on PC hardware. True PC gaming is true freedom. With true PC gaming you pop in your disk (or download your installer), launch the insaller, follow the instructions and you're done. But what about automatic updates? Neverwinter Nights has automatic updates and that game is older than Steam. The thing wth Steam is simply that it's better than the other software-consoles.
True PC gaming is popping the disc in the drive, finding the installation program, running it, configuring your digital sound and MIDI output, using autoexec to coax the game into seeing enough RAM so you can run the game, then launching it, and then finding the trusty code wheel (or star map) and the relevant code to gain access to the game every freaking time you run it.

Anything else is simple bastardisation of the PC gaming concept, and an attempt to appeal to console gamers and their "pop game in, play it" mentality.
Post edited February 24, 2013 by ET3D
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HiPhish: Steam is not PC gaming, it's console gaming on PC hardware. True PC gaming is true freedom. With true PC gaming you pop in your disk (or download your installer), launch the insaller, follow the instructions and you're done. But what about automatic updates? Neverwinter Nights has automatic updates and that game is older than Steam. The thing wth Steam is simply that it's better than the other software-consoles.
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ET3D: True PC gaming is popping the disc in the drive, finding the installation program, running it, configuring your digital sound and MIDI output, using autoexec to coax the game into seeing enough RAM so you can run the game, then launching it, and then finding the trusty code wheel (or star map) and the relevant code to gain access to the game every freaking time you run it.

Anything else is simple bastardisation of the PC gaming concept, and an attempt to appeal to console gamers and their "pop game in, play it" mentality.
HAHAHA
I'm going to give some rep to this post. The only thing you forgot to mention regarding console gaming was the clasic "blowing on the NES catridge". Going back even further we also have the old apples telling you to "insert disc A side B" every ten minutes.

I honestly don't mind checks and codes, the only things that really pisses me off is subversive crap that has nothing to do with the game screwing with the entire computer by shutting down certain things, turning on others, and messing with compatibility settings.

I neither have love or hatred for Steam. I don't belong to it because I don't need to. I have GOG, I have the GOG forum, I have sunflower seeds, and in a few weeks I will have baseball. ALL IS RIGHT WITH THE WORLD.:)
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HiPhish: Steam is not PC gaming, it's console gaming on PC hardware. True PC gaming is true freedom. With true PC gaming you pop in your disk (or download your installer), launch the insaller, follow the instructions and you're done. But what about automatic updates? Neverwinter Nights has automatic updates and that game is older than Steam. The thing wth Steam is simply that it's better than the other software-consoles.
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ET3D: True PC gaming is popping the disc in the drive, finding the installation program, running it, configuring your digital sound and MIDI output, using autoexec to coax the game into seeing enough RAM so you can run the game, then launching it, and then finding the trusty code wheel (or star map) and the relevant code to gain access to the game every freaking time you run it.

Anything else is simple bastardisation of the PC gaming concept, and an attempt to appeal to console gamers and their "pop game in, play it" mentality.
Ahhh, those were the days...

I'll go one further, true PC gaming is getting your game in the form of large spiral-bound books filled with code that you'd then have to spend hours copying to your computer line for line, troubleshooting typos from both yourself and the book once you're done.
Post edited February 24, 2013 by Cormoran
What the Steam fanatics here are forgetting is that it is not a simple process for everyone.

If Steam works for you without any problems, you can deal with the risks of losing your games and you are OK with not being able to resell your games, that's fine.

Unfortunately, there is a sizable portion of people who have indeed had significant problems with Steam, take issue with Steam's account management system and would like the opportunity to resell their games (or buy used, possibly out-of-print ones).

It was the first two issues that caused me major problems and eventually ended up causing me to abandon PC gaming for the most part. On numerous occasions I had Steam simply fail to log in for hours on end, offline mode refusing to work (or should I say, offline mode would work, but none of the games would start). I had games refuse to start on launch day, and I've had patches of multiple gigabytes rammed down my throat with pathetically slow download speeds, leaving me unable to play for ages. I had region-locked Steam codes for games I've bought in the UK, I had games go missing from my Steam list and I've been threatened by Steam Support for allegedly 'circumventing' IP blocks.

If that is what people understand under 'it just works', then all I can do is facepalm. But hey, I'm happy. My consoles do now actually 'just work' with just a minor loss in graphical fidelity (and if you master racers are going to start whinging on about the Wii or PSN DRM, then fuck off - I'm talking about disc-based games, which is what 95% of console gamers use).

As an aside to the more arrogant cunts here: If you don't want to sell your games or are not interested in buying used games, fine, but don't start playing the fucking moral superior and try and dictate what others do with their games. And if you are incapable of looking after your discs, that is your problem. Don't try and take your inadequacies out on other people.