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hucklebarry: HA! Yer no thief !!!!!

You don't need combat when you have a blackjack... and slippers! :p

My problems with T3 is they broke as much as they fixed. Controls are horrible. Physics are atrocious. etc. Its all opinion. ;)
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StingingVelvet: I actually didn't mean Thief with that example, I was more thinking of Oblivion actually. Still, my point is we often focus on the changes or simplified aspects while ignoring the positive changes.
Thief 3 was excellent. Sadly it would have been better without the limitation of the console. Back then, console limitations were a lot more severe than today. I'm currently playing thorugh it again and it really is a great game and the series could really use another sequel/reboot.
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StingingVelvet: I actually didn't mean Thief with that example, I was more thinking of Oblivion actually. Still, my point is we often focus on the changes or simplified aspects while ignoring the positive changes.
I see, but I still think it boils down to personal preference/opinion. (unless you are just meaning essentially fanboism?)

IMHO, Morrowind had better itemization/gear. Oblivion most certainly simplified this.
Morrowind had better leveling (a level 10 cave was always a level 10 cave). I loathe the auto-leveled game world in Oblivion
Oblivion had better visual across the board.
Morrowind was infinite space in every direction. Oblivion had a more powerful toolset even though you had to make almost everything a portal off the existing space.
Oblivion was a cleaner, smoother, much more beautiful experience (and yes, I loved the combat in Oblivion). But there WERE tradeoffs for it. So I see the differences, but can't say that one is BETTER than the other... we all have different tastes.

With Thief, I think its harder to lay down the It's better card because the time period is old, grainy, worn down environments. Even the graphics in T1 don't bother me. They just seem to fit. So I see all these people talking about the horrible graphics and I'm thinking, you are crazy! But it all boils down to what we bring to the table. Its why I don't like the "best game" arguments. I don't mind discussing, but its never productive to try and convince someone of something so opinionated as this.
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hucklebarry: Oblivion was a cleaner, smoother, much more beautiful experience (and yes, I loved the combat in Oblivion). But there WERE tradeoffs for it. So I see the differences, but can't say that one is BETTER than the other... we all have different tastes.
No shit, that was my whole point. All I said was we tend to ignore the positives and rant about the negatives.
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hucklebarry: Oblivion was a cleaner, smoother, much more beautiful experience (and yes, I loved the combat in Oblivion). But there WERE tradeoffs for it. So I see the differences, but can't say that one is BETTER than the other... we all have different tastes.
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StingingVelvet: No shit, that was my whole point. All I said was we tend to ignore the positives and rant about the negatives.
But sometimes those negatives are so serious that any positives become irrelevant and not worth mentioning. It didn't matter all that much to me that Oblivion had "better" combat when they made the world so utterly generic and uninteresting, and the character progression mechanics so utterly broken. At this point it wasn't important that the graphics were shiny and it was fun to click the monsters away.

Anyway, this discussion took place about six thousand times in the last week alone. Some people just want to relax with games. Some want to get something memorable out of them. Some don't mind certain annoyances in exchange for complexity. Some like to see the world burn etc.
Post edited May 23, 2012 by Pemptus
low rated
nice going arguing which of two ten-year old games might be better...





that was an exaggeration BTW.
high rated
- Thief games released on GOG

Steam fanboys: "Haha, those suckers on GOG, paying for Abandonware, what losers"

- Thief games released on Steam

Steam fanboys: "Wow! these games are great! and the prices and great too! buying!"
I'm a fanboi when it comes to the Thief series, not bothered by platform as I have them on disc. I now have digital copies also that work immediately. If they were cheap on GOG before Steam then GOG would have got my money, its just Steam beat them to the mark on pricing on this one.

I have always been a fan of the Thief games and the Dark Engine in general (grrrrrrrr still no SS2). At least there may be a few younger people that will actually discover these gems for themselves on Steam. Us old school gamers know fine well how epic the series is.
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Roman5: - Thief games released on GOG

Steam fanboys: "Haha, those suckers on GOG, paying for Abandonware, what losers"
Pretty sure I've barely ever seen people make that kind of statements over on SPUF. It's more likely to lead to complaining about when it'll arrive on Steam. Even on SPUG GOG generally has a good rep.
Post edited May 23, 2012 by Pheace
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Roman5: - Thief games released on GOG

Steam fanboys: "Haha, those suckers on GOG, paying for Abandonware, what losers"

- Thief games released on Steam

Steam fanboys: "Wow! these games are great! and the prices and great too! buying!"
I think the whole idea of being a fanboy is that you will ALWAYS be in favor of your product of choice and against the others... so it goes both ways. I'm happy as long as there is an option for me ;) (mine would go something more like this:)


- Thief games released on GOG

Thief fanboys: "Haha, More Thief players, WOOT! I'll buy a backup copy and it works now too, so it will be easier to install for those not aware of the fan fixes!... and its DRM-FREE!"

- Thief games released on Steam

Thief fanboys: "Wow! Even more new Thief players. WOOT!"
Honestly i'm gonna buy it from GOG, even though it was steam sale that seriously had me tempted. the final selling points though were

- GOG includes the manual, and frankly i HATE not having a manual, and sometimes IMPOSSIBLE to obtain over the net (i.e: Return to Krondor) (manuals are fun)
-I like GOG and when thief originally come on the site i think it might have been on sale for 50% off.
-DMR Free, enough said
-Should GOG ever stop working, the game still works. You can't say that about steam. When you can't login to steam becasue the "server" is to busy, and the off-line feature refuses to work, (has happend dozens of times) what will you do then?

i have had one very disappointing accident with GOG though that bothered me.

Return to Krondor, i have 3 copies. Impulse(gamestop) CD and GOG. the videos work fine on the first two, but on GOG it runs in the lowest resolution possible and moves to this tiny box on the bottom left of the screen. Frankly i was too pissed to look for a solution and went beck to Impulse.
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Layarion: -Should GOG ever stop working, the game still works. You can't say that about steam. When you can't login to steam becasue the "server" is to busy, and the off-line feature refuses to work, (has happend dozens of times) what will you do then?
Well, to be fair, Steam games become effectively DRM free once you fiddle with their exe files. Community patches of Gothic 1 and 3, for example, made the games perfectly runnable outside of the client.
Also, using cracks with games I bought is fine by my morality code.
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Layarion: - GOG includes the manual, and frankly i HATE not having a manual, and sometimes IMPOSSIBLE to obtain over the net (i.e: Return to Krondor) (manuals are fun)
Downloaded Steam editions of Thief G and 2 have manuals in their respective folder. The Making of video, the Blooper Reel level, the Windows Plus! theme and the editor are also in the Gold package. Ddfix applied for stability and compatibility.
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hucklebarry: - Thief games released on GOG

Thief fanboys: "Haha, More Thief players, WOOT! I'll buy a backup copy and it works now too, so it will be easier to install for those not aware of the fan fixes!... and its DRM-FREE!"

- Thief games released on Steam

Thief fanboys: "Wow! Even more new Thief players. WOOT!"
Darn right :) Thief fans have always been welcoming to new players. The GOG copies are my 6th copies each of Thief 1 and 2, I love the games so much. Thief 3 was OK, the controls were horrible but the story was excellent, best of the three in my opinion. When I finish my thesis this month, I will celebrate by playing through them all again in order :)
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Pemptus: But sometimes those negatives are so serious that any positives become irrelevant and not worth mentioning. It didn't matter all that much to me that Oblivion had "better" combat when they made the world so utterly generic and uninteresting, and the character progression mechanics so utterly broken. At this point it wasn't important that the graphics were shiny and it was fun to click the monsters away.
Sure, and I would agree Oblivion's negatives outweigh its positives compared to Morrowind. I'm just saying we often focus on minor negatives instead of seeing grand positives. In the case of Thief 3 I think the smaller areas and load times are minor issues compared to the grand inclusion of a hub world with side missions, a rich improvement to the look of the game and world and better mechanics.

I replayed Thief 1 a year or so ago and was shocked at how... janky I guess would be the word... it was. I think objectively speaking Thief 3 is a better playing game, and some console compromises don't change that, so why focus on them? I guess that's my overall point.

Though definitely minor things can bother some people more than others. I have seen RPG Codex people refuse to play a game simply because of menu font or some other stupidly minor thing.
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Layarion: - GOG includes the manual, and frankly i HATE not having a manual, and sometimes IMPOSSIBLE to obtain over the net (i.e: Return to Krondor) (manuals are fun)
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grviper: Downloaded Steam editions of Thief G and 2 have manuals in their respective folder. The Making of video, the Blooper Reel level, the Windows Plus! theme and the editor are also in the Gold package. Ddfix applied for stability and compatibility.
well i mighta went with steam then, but too late now. im just gonna wait for which evers first then, however, in most situations of solo play games i like GOG more.