Posted March 27, 2020
Lifthrasil
Bring the GOG-Downloader back!
Registered: Apr 2011
From Germany
JoeSapphire
Consultant Liar
Registered: Jun 2011
From United Kingdom
Posted March 27, 2020
OH okay! Has it really been that long? Sorry, I've been sorting out a replacement computer and feeling a bit bleh and cabinfeverish. It doesn't feel like two days has passed. But there's been a lot of posts. Sorry!
I've got a lot of posts tagged to address, forgive me if this becomes unfathomable.
I like this post of zazak's - he's got reasons for doing the things he does, and I can understand them.
zazak09: A typical mafia strategy is to endorse a townie making a weak case early in the game, without actually vocalizing support for it. I suspect that was what Trent's intention. I see that. I'm not sure it is what trent was doing, but I see how it could be.
Genocide2099: Been reading the posts I've missed. Initially, I voted for SirPrimalform because he just sounds so shady. But now, I'm also suspicious of Cadaver747. I'm really bad at reading people so I just rely on instincts. My vote is still on SirPrimalform but keeping an eye on Cadaver747.
Just a heads up, I've played Avalon and Dead of Winter. I suck at both. lol both great games - do you suck at the lying or at the recognising-liars part?
trentonlf: Considering the fact that we have just a little over two days before the Day ends I suggest people VOTE who they most suspect right now so we can get a better understanding of where things stand. Waiting till the last minute and then just voting to avoid a no lynch gets us NOWHERE info wise. whut? whut? two days! Argh!
PookaMustard: I think the three people I suspect, outside of ZFR/trent, are:
- Carradice: seems a heck lot more aggressive for some reason. Down to the tone.
- Cadaver: well, he's picked up some code alright, but that code is so obscenely obvious, you'd think he'd double check to make sure it wasn't another one of our RVS jokes.
- Genocide: "Serious" vote on SPF as I have said earlier, plus lack of activity.
The rest (Microfish, gogtrial, Joe and GameRager) are fine for now.
gogtrial34987: Two complete newbies, one with a single game behind his belt (though that was an impressive one). It's always so easy to find something "off" about new players, isn't it? Particularly with all the olds hands sticking to their tried and true patterns...
Just a thought: Wouldn't it be more helpful to get the gamestate somewhere useful if you tried engaging these known quantities a bit more, see if they're still fine under pressure? nice, probing post from gogtrial, and an interesting point about accepting old habits and new suspicion and whatever, I don't know why I thought it was worth quoting though, I should probably delete this.
JoeSapphire: gogtrial - trially and full of gog as ever. It's hard to picture him as scum, but it's early days yet gogtrial34987: So, big bro, I've been wondering... How come you haven't engaged me at all? No heart-to-hearts, no looking me in the eye forcing the truth out of me... What has happened?
JoeSapphire: zazak - clearly knows his stuff. dedicated enough to claim to do research. Heck, might even have done the research! Terrifying! gogtrial34987: I think it's been well established that 3rd party-you finds researchy players terrifying. Scum-you undoubtedly has the same. But town-you? Really for realZ? I think the time we were playing and I was engaging with you early on, I wasn't prepared to be betrayed by you - the joy of our teamwork was still fresh, and I would have felt very stupid to be fooled by you. This game I'm more open to the possibility that you may be fooling me, and us all. I might feel a little pride in it even.
Hm. When I say 'terrifying' here I do not mean it in the sense of literally inspiring terror. The tone should read a little more flippant, and should communicate something more like "awe-inspiring" rather than actually frightening.
When 3rd party-joe and scum-joe feels frightened, he tells whoever is within earshot over private message. He don't announce it in the game thread.
gogtrial34987: If I was scum, and you weren't, I think that'd depend strongly on the overall game state, and any suspicions on me and my scum buddies. I'd still NK you if it was the obvious best move, but all other things being the same, I suspect I'd try to let you play another day even if it wouldn't be optimal play. 
ZFR: Thank you for your answer.
I was trying to see who would berate me for revealing I had a role. And who, if any, would be the third person to jump on my wagon.
None of these happened. The only reaction was you saying you think I'm scum and placing a first vote on me which you later removed. I guess everyone thought I was joking? hm...
Are you interested in continuing to play the game after Night 1?
gogtrial34987: Would berating you be a scum-tell or a town-tell?
ZFR: The whole "code" thing gave me Flocke vibe, who was Town and genuinely thought he was onto something. gogtrial34987: *nods* Me too. And Joe as well from his reads list. Yet Pooka and Carradice appear to read it as too obvious (and thus fake) - which, well, I can see that PoV too.
Could you re-examine the post from that angle, and see how you interpret it afterward?
@Joe, same question for you? aw whaattt I've got to read a post that I already responded to again??
okay I found the post I read it. No. I can't believe here Cadaver understands that it is a joke, and has decided to pretend that he sees no meaning in it in order to encourage people to think that he is town.
I don't think Carradice' and SirP's humour is as inclusive as they think it is. I had to put effort in to understand what they were doing, and I have the advantage of knowing the players and the format.
ZFR: @Joe
My bragging rights trio: the two players with "tr" in their name, and the half of the Unbeatable Duo that isn't writing this post. you're wrong about me, was I wrong about you?
trent and... gogtrial! Imaging if me and trent and gogtrial were a scumteam together! Would it be a chance for atonement, or mistrust and tension? I hope it will come to pass one day.
Carradice: About Genocide, it would be interesting to hear about his reasons for the vote on SPF. In any case, if he is new to the game then he is not to be touched on Day 1. He has that time to learn the ropes and make himself comfortable for an exciting Day 2. PookaMustard: I'm leaning on not voting him for the time being. The guy's fresh and hasn't outed himself as scum (in which case he gets the vote), but I still can't help but find his vote on SPF weird, lacking and suspicious. To put it in better words, I think he is scum who panicked and doubled down on his vote the way he did. I would like him to show up and explain everything before we commit to lynching him.
Genocide2099: Got it. It was not an RVS vote. hahaha. I'll stand by it for now. We still have until Friday. PookaMustard: So tell me Geno, why should I not vote you? I think I picked this out because I find the "why should I not vote you" a bit distasteful (sort of has a sense of "hey, I know I mislynched him, but it's his fault, I asked him why I shouldn't have voted!") but with the context of the preceding paragraph, it's not as harsh as I first read it.
- on the subject, pooka says geno's vote on SirP is weird, and yeah he doesn't really have any reason to vote for SirP, but why should we be discouraging him from voting with little reason?
Pooka also says he thinks Gen panicked, and doubled down.
What do you think he panicked about, and why double down, when he was presented with a neat "yes, my vote meant nothing" option in the concept of the RVS?
Yes, I mean it seems VERY harsh to allow a new player to start a game, see a bunch of votes flying around without full explanation, let them make a vote themselves, and then later say "No, didn't you know, all our votes were just jokes, were you- were you not IN on the joke? So you WEREN'T joking when you made that vote?
Well I must say that's VERY suspicious!"
(I may have dramatised the events slightly here, but I think there is a truth to my version)
end of part 1...
I've got a lot of posts tagged to address, forgive me if this becomes unfathomable.
I like this post of zazak's - he's got reasons for doing the things he does, and I can understand them.
Just a heads up, I've played Avalon and Dead of Winter. I suck at both. lol
- Carradice: seems a heck lot more aggressive for some reason. Down to the tone.
- Cadaver: well, he's picked up some code alright, but that code is so obscenely obvious, you'd think he'd double check to make sure it wasn't another one of our RVS jokes.
- Genocide: "Serious" vote on SPF as I have said earlier, plus lack of activity.
The rest (Microfish, gogtrial, Joe and GameRager) are fine for now.
Just a thought: Wouldn't it be more helpful to get the gamestate somewhere useful if you tried engaging these known quantities a bit more, see if they're still fine under pressure?
Hm. When I say 'terrifying' here I do not mean it in the sense of literally inspiring terror. The tone should read a little more flippant, and should communicate something more like "awe-inspiring" rather than actually frightening.
When 3rd party-joe and scum-joe feels frightened, he tells whoever is within earshot over private message. He don't announce it in the game thread.
I was trying to see who would berate me for revealing I had a role. And who, if any, would be the third person to jump on my wagon.
None of these happened. The only reaction was you saying you think I'm scum and placing a first vote on me which you later removed. I guess everyone thought I was joking?
Are you interested in continuing to play the game after Night 1?
Could you re-examine the post from that angle, and see how you interpret it afterward?
@Joe, same question for you?
okay I found the post I read it. No. I can't believe here Cadaver understands that it is a joke, and has decided to pretend that he sees no meaning in it in order to encourage people to think that he is town.
I don't think Carradice' and SirP's humour is as inclusive as they think it is. I had to put effort in to understand what they were doing, and I have the advantage of knowing the players and the format.
My bragging rights trio: the two players with "tr" in their name, and the half of the Unbeatable Duo that isn't writing this post.
trent and... gogtrial! Imaging if me and trent and gogtrial were a scumteam together! Would it be a chance for atonement, or mistrust and tension? I hope it will come to pass one day.
- on the subject, pooka says geno's vote on SirP is weird, and yeah he doesn't really have any reason to vote for SirP, but why should we be discouraging him from voting with little reason?
Pooka also says he thinks Gen panicked, and doubled down.
What do you think he panicked about, and why double down, when he was presented with a neat "yes, my vote meant nothing" option in the concept of the RVS?
Yes, I mean it seems VERY harsh to allow a new player to start a game, see a bunch of votes flying around without full explanation, let them make a vote themselves, and then later say "No, didn't you know, all our votes were just jokes, were you- were you not IN on the joke? So you WEREN'T joking when you made that vote?
Well I must say that's VERY suspicious!"
(I may have dramatised the events slightly here, but I think there is a truth to my version)
end of part 1...
JoeSapphire
Consultant Liar
Registered: Jun 2011
From United Kingdom
Posted March 27, 2020
part 2!!
Cadaver747: What is interesting is that a few people expressed their desire to check on me soon after I was declared "charming" and "town leaning". I want you all to know that I am definitely not charming, and reading "codes" incorrectly was more like a stupid thing to do. Your self-criticism and charm-denial are two of your more charming qualities.
Cadaver747: Also I post rarely and was sparred even when it was evident that I was possessed by editorial spirit. Why the heck I was spared? As in why weren't you removed from the game for Breaking The Rules?
There's often leniency for a first offense.
And there's often leniency anyway (sometimes a LOT of leniency!) removing a player is a faff - you need to get a replacement, or risk leaving the game unbalanced, the players have to adapt and may try and make that as difficult as possible, the player removed from the game may have ill-feeling. Easier to give a warning and carry on!
ZFR: There is a big difference.
Dying on N1 is something I dared scum to do (I never "asked" for it as you stated). And wouldn't it be funny if scum spared me on N1 and then lost because of it?
Dying on D1 would be something utterly moronic on all counts. It's not something I "asked". Though now that I think of it, it would in a way be funny too. Only reading this post did I connect the meaning of ZFR's initial posts.
I understood "I have a power role" and such, to be mocking previous day one wonders and blunders. And simply being provocative.
I understood "kill me night 1" to be a reference (and reminder) to the fact that ZFR hasn't played a game into Day Two for quite some time now.
But now I follow the logic of "I have a power role, does that frighten you, scums?" followed by "I bet you're itching to kill me night one aren't ya?"
Sooo... provocative tactics, with no particular aim? Meh. We can come back to the intention, but I think I give ZFR town points for the whole thing, because I think I understand some of his thought behind it.
Cadaver747: As for ZFR I don't know, maybe he is not a Kamikadze but a Paranoid Gun Owner or a an odd-number Suicide Bomb (hence the implication on Night 1 several times). ZFR: Maybe this, maybe that, maybe a vanilla who wants to draw NK, and maybe stop discussing? You made provocative statements, and then when they got largely ignored you made a thing about how people were ignoring your provocative statements, maybe because they weren't taking them seriously? Intentionally or no, you're inviting discussion.
Yes - you should discourage the discussion, but don't make it seem like you don't have only yourself to blame :p
Carradice: ¿No more fast replies? *shrugs*
Will check later who is lynched. If self, then at least one worry less. Will even self-vote if required, so that you can move on (but still you will lose a good chance of hitting scum). Really tired of replying to Pooka on the same issue. Really. It was too much and you know it.
Cheerio. I don't like your proposal to self-vote. I got a lot of flack last game for not immediately assuming Yogsloth's self-vote was scummy as hell.
Strange events produce strange reactions. (If I knew how to say that in latin I think it would give it a little more sophistication)
SirPrimalform: No, it was definitely strange. I just thought it best to wait and see what happened. I'm not sure if zazak really didn't understand what you were doing or what. Do you mean you think Zazak DID understand zfr, and was pretending not to?
Or do you mean you understood zfr and you're surprised zazak didn't?
gogtrial34987: Joe, Joe, where art thou, Joe? The count of days on thine last post is nearly striking two! here! Been writing for... 2 hours now? What the hell is wrong with me??
I'm knackered and struggling to make sense. I think it would have been much better for me to start at the end but anyway.
Right now I think Zazak, pooka and gogtrial make sense.
I think SirP, zfr and cadaver don't make sense, but I think I understand them.
Does me understanding mean they're town or mafia? I guess it shouldn't... hum.
from what I can tell, zazak and carradice are both at 3 votes, and everyone else has less than that?
Of the two of them, zazak I'm town-reading.
Carradice has said things I disagreed with, and yes, contradicted himself with his reads. But just because he might be wrong, doesn't mean he's mafia. I can understand his reactions from a town perspective, as much as I can a mafia.
But, looking at the register, there's no-one I have a better reason for voting.
Vote Carradice
Ugh. This doesn't feel good...
===
@Gamerager - Sorry for your loss my friend. I hope you're doing okay.
There's often leniency for a first offense.
And there's often leniency anyway (sometimes a LOT of leniency!) removing a player is a faff - you need to get a replacement, or risk leaving the game unbalanced, the players have to adapt and may try and make that as difficult as possible, the player removed from the game may have ill-feeling. Easier to give a warning and carry on!
Dying on N1 is something I dared scum to do (I never "asked" for it as you stated). And wouldn't it be funny if scum spared me on N1 and then lost because of it?
Dying on D1 would be something utterly moronic on all counts. It's not something I "asked". Though now that I think of it, it would in a way be funny too.
I understood "I have a power role" and such, to be mocking previous day one wonders and blunders. And simply being provocative.
I understood "kill me night 1" to be a reference (and reminder) to the fact that ZFR hasn't played a game into Day Two for quite some time now.
But now I follow the logic of "I have a power role, does that frighten you, scums?" followed by "I bet you're itching to kill me night one aren't ya?"
Sooo... provocative tactics, with no particular aim? Meh. We can come back to the intention, but I think I give ZFR town points for the whole thing, because I think I understand some of his thought behind it.
Yes - you should discourage the discussion, but don't make it seem like you don't have only yourself to blame :p
Will check later who is lynched. If self, then at least one worry less. Will even self-vote if required, so that you can move on (but still you will lose a good chance of hitting scum). Really tired of replying to Pooka on the same issue. Really. It was too much and you know it.
Cheerio.
Strange events produce strange reactions. (If I knew how to say that in latin I think it would give it a little more sophistication)
Or do you mean you understood zfr and you're surprised zazak didn't?
I'm knackered and struggling to make sense. I think it would have been much better for me to start at the end but anyway.
Right now I think Zazak, pooka and gogtrial make sense.
I think SirP, zfr and cadaver don't make sense, but I think I understand them.
Does me understanding mean they're town or mafia? I guess it shouldn't... hum.
from what I can tell, zazak and carradice are both at 3 votes, and everyone else has less than that?
Of the two of them, zazak I'm town-reading.
Carradice has said things I disagreed with, and yes, contradicted himself with his reads. But just because he might be wrong, doesn't mean he's mafia. I can understand his reactions from a town perspective, as much as I can a mafia.
But, looking at the register, there's no-one I have a better reason for voting.
Vote Carradice
Ugh. This doesn't feel good...
===
@Gamerager - Sorry for your loss my friend. I hope you're doing okay.
GamezRanker
Iran so far away
Registered: Sep 2010
From United States
Posted March 27, 2020
Well I hoped that was implied in what I said. :)
======================================================
JoeSapphire: I don't like your proposal to self-vote. I got a lot of flack last game for not immediately assuming Yogsloth's self-vote was scummy as hell. Thing is, Yog was more or less confirmed(by me) during that game before he posted that post/vote....also he had a wagon building on him...it's likely he saw his lynch as inevitable. Now here with Carradice he has not been confirmed scum, so I don't think that is as much as scum-tell as it was with Yog.
Thank you....it is appreciated.
I am doing a bit better now(father took her to pet funeral home today)....I am looking at old photos, playing games, keeping busy. Btw I will list some about it in the to all section of this post if you or anyone wants to read a bit more/is interested.
==============================================================
======================================================
Thank you....it is appreciated.
I am doing a bit better now(father took her to pet funeral home today)....I am looking at old photos, playing games, keeping busy. Btw I will list some about it in the to all section of this post if you or anyone wants to read a bit more/is interested.
==============================================================
Microfish_1
I'm not a duck
Registered: Dec 2017
From United States
Posted March 27, 2020
@GR: sorry for your loss, hope you are doing all right and will continue to do so.
@Joe You ignored my vote for you :(
[Many things were said since my last post, and since I went away to cook/eat dinner many other things happened. Joe came back and posted two long posts. I have forgotten much of what I wanted to say.]
I'm giving you @Gogtrial, town points because i like how you have been inquisitory and not letting people off the hook too easily.
The thought just sprung to my mind--@ZFR's claim to have a PR; daring people to vote for him, is LAMIST indeed (unless I'm misusing the daffynition, and would be hilarious and take all kinds of guts--unless he is actually scum. Come to think of it, it would take all kinds of guts for scum to say it.
Does he have the guts to say it as scum? Yes.
[insert another hour-long break here]
The ZFR+SirP commentary in the 240s-50s seems normal.
Joe says he wouldn't panic if a scumbuddy was hit, yet he infamously panicked a bit last game when yogs got the hammer/
There was somebody i felt doing a nice job of distancing, and someone else who i felt was being very...idk cagey in what and how they said stuff, but idr who.
To help tie things up and give us to wagons to analyze, and since my Joe vote went nowhere
vrote Pooka
er...
vote PookaMustard
@Joe You ignored my vote for you :(
[Many things were said since my last post, and since I went away to cook/eat dinner many other things happened. Joe came back and posted two long posts. I have forgotten much of what I wanted to say.]
I'm giving you @Gogtrial, town points because i like how you have been inquisitory and not letting people off the hook too easily.
The thought just sprung to my mind--@ZFR's claim to have a PR; daring people to vote for him, is LAMIST indeed (unless I'm misusing the daffynition, and would be hilarious and take all kinds of guts--unless he is actually scum. Come to think of it, it would take all kinds of guts for scum to say it.
Does he have the guts to say it as scum? Yes.
[insert another hour-long break here]
The ZFR+SirP commentary in the 240s-50s seems normal.
Joe says he wouldn't panic if a scumbuddy was hit, yet he infamously panicked a bit last game when yogs got the hammer/
There was somebody i felt doing a nice job of distancing, and someone else who i felt was being very...idk cagey in what and how they said stuff, but idr who.
To help tie things up and give us to wagons to analyze, and since my Joe vote went nowhere
vrote Pooka
er...
vote PookaMustard
Skuatoi
New User
Registered: Apr 2012
From United States
Posted March 27, 2020
The reason I haven't engaged with you much is because it doesn't feel like your head is in the game yet. You did make a good point about needing to adapt my playstyle from other forums, which I'll take to heart. I'm also sorry about the loss of your cat.
You are better off voting for either me or Carradice. Starting a third bandwagon isn't productive with time running out.
ZFR
I love gold!
Registered: Jan 2010
From Ireland
Posted March 27, 2020
Yes - you should discourage the discussion, but don't make it seem like you don't have only yourself to blame :p
ZFR
I love gold!
Registered: Jan 2010
From Ireland
Posted March 27, 2020
I'm willing to vote Pooka too, if enough people join.
JoeSapphire
Consultant Liar
Registered: Jun 2011
From United Kingdom
Posted March 27, 2020
Yogs was not my scumbuddy.
Panic is not the right word to describe what I did.
I did not do what I did because yogs got the hammer, but because yogs self-voted and I didn't understand why.
Sorry man. It got lost in the masses.
When you voted for me you said "I hope he's town." Were you referring to me?
gogtrial34987
Go for the eyes!
Registered: Dec 2013
From Netherlands
Posted March 27, 2020
@Lift: vote count please?
FWIW, here's how I have them right now:
Carradice 4 - zazak (215), Pooka (224), gogtrial (256), Joe (273)
zazak 3 - ZFR (207), Carradice (227), GameRager (262)
SirP 2 - Genocide (34), Cadaver (117)
Pooka 2 - trent (132), micro (275)
Genocide 1 - SirP (186)
It'd be glorious! We'd be the terror of the seas. All town players would scatter before us like ineffective little balls!
FWIW, here's how I have them right now:
Carradice 4 - zazak (215), Pooka (224), gogtrial (256), Joe (273)
zazak 3 - ZFR (207), Carradice (227), GameRager (262)
SirP 2 - Genocide (34), Cadaver (117)
Pooka 2 - trent (132), micro (275)
Genocide 1 - SirP (186)
It'd be glorious! We'd be the terror of the seas. All town players would scatter before us like ineffective little balls!
Skuatoi
New User
Registered: Apr 2012
From United States
Posted March 27, 2020
We have until this evening to get a lynch. The sooner we get a player to L-1, the more time we have to analyze their claim. Anyone that fails to consolidate their vote behind me or Carradice is being anti-town.
ZFR
I love gold!
Registered: Jan 2010
From Ireland
gogtrial34987
Go for the eyes!
Registered: Dec 2013
From Netherlands
Posted March 27, 2020
Time to show some colors and hop onto a viable wagon! Are you going to give us a third wagon, or consolidating on one of the leading two?
Lifthrasil
Bring the GOG-Downloader back!
Registered: Apr 2011
From Germany
Posted March 27, 2020
------------------------------------------------------------------------
You feel that time is running out. You don't know precisely how long the lights will stay on, but if the last time is any measure, the Hotel's 'Night' will fall soon. And slowly the suspicion focuses on fewer people. Things get heated, in spite of the snow outside. But everyone is ready to kill someone. ... Eh, throw someone into the snow. But everyone knows that that is a death sentence.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Official Vote Count
Pooka 2 - trent (132), micro (275)
SirP 2 - Genocide (34), Cadaver (117)
zazak 4 - ZFR (207), Carradice (227), GR (262), Joe (273)
Carradice 3 - zazak (215), Pooka (231), gogtrial (256)
Genocide 1 - SirP (186)
With 12 alive it takes 7 to lynch
zazak leads at L-3
Everyone is voting
If you find any voting errors, let me know.
The Day will end some time tonight. So about 12 h from now, give or take one or two hours, depending on my availability.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
You feel that time is running out. You don't know precisely how long the lights will stay on, but if the last time is any measure, the Hotel's 'Night' will fall soon. And slowly the suspicion focuses on fewer people. Things get heated, in spite of the snow outside. But everyone is ready to kill someone. ... Eh, throw someone into the snow. But everyone knows that that is a death sentence.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Official Vote Count
Pooka 2 - trent (132), micro (275)
SirP 2 - Genocide (34), Cadaver (117)
zazak 4 - ZFR (207), Carradice (227), GR (262), Joe (273)
Carradice 3 - zazak (215), Pooka (231), gogtrial (256)
Genocide 1 - SirP (186)
With 12 alive it takes 7 to lynch
zazak leads at L-3
Everyone is voting
If you find any voting errors, let me know.
The Day will end some time tonight. So about 12 h from now, give or take one or two hours, depending on my availability.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Skuatoi
New User
Registered: Apr 2012
From United States