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mechgouki: The end-users can do whatever the hell they want. Including pirating it. If they do anything wrong, they'll be the ones answering for it.

What was provided is a benefit to them. How they use it is to their discretion.
god - talk about missing the point completely. This attitude is exactly why we have DRM - the sellers and developers can't trust the users not to abuse the system... no wonder more and more bundles do have steam keys only... I am downrepping your post for the first time now.


edit - in the end you get the system you deserve. that's all I am going to say about this. I am going to stop following this thread. Have a good life.
Post edited January 18, 2013 by amok
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amok: god - talk about missing the point completely. This attitude is exactly why we have DRM - the sellers and developers can't trust the users not to abuse the system... no wonder more and more bundles do have steam keys only... I am downrepping your post for the first time now.
That's the whole point of DRM. Treat every single one of your consumers as potential pirates. God, how I missed that system...
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mechgouki: The end-users can do whatever the hell they want. Including pirating it. If they do anything wrong, they'll be the ones answering for it.

What was provided is a benefit to them. How they use it is to their discretion.
Hold it, I missed this part of the post.

So, you say that if a game is available in Windows, Mac and Linux versions, you can keep the Windows part for you, send me the Mac version, and trade the Linux version to Amok, thus essentially getting 3 copies from your 1 license?

The distributors that provide steam keys in addition to the DRM-free downloads are not giving you an extra copy, they are allowing you to choose the platform on which you wish to play your game. So yes, if you keep the drm-free installer for yourself and pass the steam key to someone else, it is the same as if you just downloaded a copy for yourself. Only time I'll accept it as acceptable is if you already have the steam (or gog, or desura) copy of the game, thus you could argue that you are passing the previous license to someone else, which may or may not be ethical.

Same thing as if I buy TW2 on steam (or retail) and give the GOG redeem code to someone else, without already having the game on GOG.

Do you still not see what the problem is, and still go with "Users can do what they want with their one license"?
@JMich

Okay, when you put it that way, I do see your point. It is an added benefit to us, not something meant to be abused like given 3 copies for the price of one.
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CaptainGyro: Hasn't all of this already been addressed?

this is just going in circles
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mechgouki: The same goes for what I've said. Hasn't it already been addressed? Companies like Bethesda, are not above criticism. How many times do I have to repeat this?

Edit: If you feel that strongly about those exclusive releases, criticise them for it. Duh.
Alright. But by that point I think everybody understood that you thought companies like Bethesda aren't above criticism, you had said it a few times already. You seemed to have a hard time realizing that some people also might think that Steam/ Bethesda is worthy of defending. Pretty much everything was already said on both sides, but then in that last post you were for the most part just repeating what you had already said, as if you weren't going to stop until everybody agreed with you.
Just seemed like a recipe for endless repeats and circles
Post edited January 18, 2013 by CaptainGyro
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Neobr10: Steam is good as a service, deal with it.
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SirPrimalform: Translation: "I like to pass my opinions off as facts, deal with it."
Do you have any arguments to tell us why it isn't? I already explained why Steam is good as a service. You may not agree with how the DRM works, but you can't deny that it does have features that makes everything easier.
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SirPrimalform: Translation: "I like to pass my opinions off as facts, deal with it."
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Neobr10: Do you have any arguments to tell us why it isn't? I already explained why Steam is good as a service. You may not agree with how the DRM works, but you can't deny that it does have features that makes everything easier.
It doesn't change the fact that it's your opinion. It is not a fact, do not treat it as a fact.
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Neobr10: Do you have any arguments to tell us why it isn't? I already explained why Steam is good as a service. You may not agree with how the DRM works, but you can't deny that it does have features that makes everything easier.
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SirPrimalform: It doesn't change the fact that it's your opinion. It is not a fact, do not treat it as a fact.
Agreed. I don't see Steam as a good service. I see it as encumbering program controlling my games. It's the reason why I came to GOG.

This might come as a surprise. Some of us DON'T think Steam is a good service. I guess we must be heretics.
Well , i'm unsatisfied with their support service . I submitted a ticket 5 days ago . :(
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ne_zavarj: Well , i'm unsatisfied with their support service . I submitted a ticket 5 days ago . :(
Just wait till you try EA's service. =P
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mechgouki: Just wait till you try EA's service. =P
I never had any problem with EA supoort . I always received hekp within 10 minutes .
Well that makes one of us. I had to wait over a half hour for the chat, and I thought I was talking to a damn answering machine the whole time...
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ne_zavarj: I never had any problem with EA supoort . I always received hekp within 10 minutes .
Same here.... but then again the help ended up being them telling me : "we have no idea why it doesn't work, try again in 24 hours" so I am not sure if it's really a good thing or not ;)
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Gersen: Same here.... but then again the help ended up being them telling me : "we have no idea why it doesn't work, try again in 24 hours" so I am not sure if it's really a good thing or not ;)
Not for me .