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koima57: Oh look that thread again.. Flash news, even GOG games you buy are not your own, they are and remain the intellectual property of their authors just as any entertainment purchase you could ever make, boxed or digital..
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Immoli: But that's wrong. I own what I purchase, but I don't own the copyright to it. People get those things confused way too often.
Correct. When you buy a GOG game you get a license to download and play the game. They aren't able to change the license one day and forcefully stop your access to the game once it is on your hard drive like Steam can.

This is somewhat related addition to my talking about consoles before. Hopefully the "steambox" concept will flop as once one console maker manages to get away with "You don't own your games, you have a subscription to them and must accept any changes we want!", that will open the doors to all others implementing the same thing.
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Novotnus: Right - maybe I misworded what I wanted to say. By 'respectable' I mean there is a lot of people who - despite mantioned flaws - are happy with Steam as it is.
I don't believe that people are happy in spite of flaws. Speaking for myself, Steam offers enough of what I want, that I'll deal with the stuff that I don't want. I make this decision with each new purchase on Steam. I don't always make the same decision. I consciously think about whether I want a game I purchase to be "stuck" in Steam before I buy it. I also consider whether it's worth buying on Steam at that moment, knowing I will probably re-purchase later, from a store more in line with my values, like GOG.com. I'm betting more people feel like this, rather than just being in a binary state of happy vs unhappy with Steam.

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Novotnus: If there is anybody that can make those people drop Steam - it's Steam itself. If Valve pushes them too hard, they'll probably move somewhere else.
I disagree. Ditching Steam is really not an option, not without throwing hundreds of games, and thousands of dollars, straight in the trash.

I think whether Steam is a "respectable" business is pointless to argue. The word "successful" would fit much better in your statement. There is no doubt that Steam has been a successful business thus far. I could say that I like Steam, but really that boils down to liking the good aspects while ignoring the bad, hoping Steam doesn't go out of business because I'll lose everything, and praying a glitch or mistake doesn't render my account inaccessible/banned, because I know I'll have no recourse. In other words, I've learned to be OK with being a Steam slave.
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J_Darnley: I can't believe the number of steam apologists on this site/forum!
I'd just like to note, that since I have not been wronged by Valve/Steam, et al, I'm not actually being an apologist.
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J_Darnley: I can't believe the number of steam apologists on this site/forum!
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TrIp13G: I'd just like to note, that since I have not been wronged by Valve/Steam, et al, I'm not actually being an apologist.
You don't know what apologist means, do you?

Look it up; it has nothing to do with having been wronged.

(The confusion has to do with the narrow definition of apology and apologize used colloquially today as opposed to the actual definition as taken from the Greek word it is derived from; it's something like the difference between the two uses of argument, one being a reasoned defense of your position and the other being a generally unreasoned shouting match)
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koima57: Oh look that thread again.. Flash news, even GOG games you buy are not your own, they are and remain the intellectual property of their authors just as any entertainment purchase you could ever make, boxed or digital..
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Immoli: But that's wrong. I own what I purchase, but I don't own the copyright to it. People get those things confused way too often.
You own a license to play it. No matter where you buy that is the case, the only difference is the power the company has to revoke said license.
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Tallin: You don't know what apologist means, do you?

Look it up; it has nothing to do with having been wronged.

(The confusion has to do with the narrow definition of apology and apologize used colloquially today as opposed to the actual definition as taken from the Greek word it is derived from; it's something like the difference between the two uses of argument, one being a reasoned defense of your position and the other being a generally unreasoned shouting match)
At the same time, I'm not making a defense for Steam, either. Also, you sound angry. Are you mad at me because I didn't know the definition of one word?
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amok: I have been using steam since day one. Never had any problems with it, and it is slowly improving.
I have one big problem with it: it's not optional. If I want Skyrim, I don't get a choice. I have to suck Steam's dick and download the client. Not cool.
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amok: I have been using steam since day one. Never had any problems with it, and it is slowly improving.
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scampywiak: I have one big problem with it: it's not optional. If I want Skyrim, I don't get a choice. I have to suck Steam's dick and download the client. Not cool.
That's exactly how I feel. I don't get a choice, the developers expect me to use Steam, regardless of my wishes.

However, I think it's Bethesda's dick you have to suck, not Steam. Bethesda is the one that force Steam on us.
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mechgouki: That's exactly how I feel. I don't get a choice, the developers expect me to use Steam, regardless of my wishes.

However, I think it's Bethesda's dick you have to suck, not Steam. Bethesda is the one that force Steam on us.
Equating using a fairly non-intrusive piece of DRM to fellatio. Nice.
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mechgouki: That's exactly how I feel. I don't get a choice, the developers expect me to use Steam, regardless of my wishes.

However, I think it's Bethesda's dick you have to suck, not Steam. Bethesda is the one that force Steam on us.
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TrIp13G: Equating using a fairly non-intrusive piece of DRM to fellatio. Nice.
It's not non-intrusive if its mandatory. :)

I'm not sure what it'll take for the dick-sucking Steam fanboys to get it through their heads. Steam DRM is like any other Draconian DRM - It's not negotiable. Please quit pretending otherwise.
Post edited January 15, 2013 by scampywiak
So anyone who disagrees with your ridiculously overheated nonsense is conveniently 'just a fanboy'? How nice for you.

I'm not sure what it'll take for the ludicrous idiots grossly exaggerating things to get it through their heads. Nobody is really disagreeing with their basic point that Steam is DRM. Other people just don't care that much about it.
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Crassmaster: So anyone who disagrees with your ridiculously overheated nonsense is conveniently 'just a fanboy'? How nice for you.

I'm not sure what it'll take for the ludicrous idiots grossly exaggerating things to get it through their heads. Nobody is really disagreeing with their basic point that Steam is DRM. Other people just don't care that much about it.
And as I said before, it's because people don't care much about it that we have draconian DRM. So thank you very much for your apathy. :)
The thing is that for games like Skyrim, we are forced to use Steam. Those of us who hate Steam, have no choice in the matter. (Unless we pirate it.)

If Steam isn't forced in my face, you think I would rave about it? That choice to use Steam or not was taken from us!
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Crassmaster: ... I'm not sure what it'll take for the ludicrous idiots grossly exaggerating things to get it through their heads. Nobody is really disagreeing with their basic point that Steam is DRM. Other people just don't care that much about it.
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scampywiak: And as I said before, it's because people don't care much about it that we have draconian DRM. So thank you very much for your apathy. :)
Spoken like a true revolutionary :D "Either with us or against them!"
Sorry if that's unfair to you (I do see you're being rethorical) but I'd like to make a general point. :)

Regardless of your preference/tolerance for Steam or GOG, this implication that there is some moral obligation on others to support your choices... the whole point is that many do not consider Steam to be draconian.

I'm more worried about the draconian / missionary attitude implied by the apathy judgement.
Unfortunately you can detect this sort of "wake up comrades, like it or not" might makes right approach in many societal debates today.
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mechgouki: The thing is that for games like Skyrim, we are forced to use Steam. Those of us who hate Steam, have no choice in the matter. (Unless we pirate it.)

If Steam isn't forced in my face, you think I would rave about it? That choice to use Steam or not was taken from us!
Or you could, you know, just not play those games. After all, if you feel that strongly against Steam it shouldn't be all that difficult. You won't die without being able to play everything.